154 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Kilo 40, on 14 September 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

I think what's going ot have to happen is clan tech and IS tech will have to be interchangeable. with the trade off being heat. lighter weight and longer range with clan weapons for your IS mech, but more heat. want less heat? back to shorter ranger but cooler IS weapons. same with clan mechs. want to mega boat lasers again? go for IS lasers. less range but much cooler.

it's not ideal, but everyone having access to everything is the only real way to keep the majority of people happy. I don;t see how IS/Clan weapons can be balanced any other way so long as they are kept as IS weapons for IS mechs only.

So in the end, the IS get IS Customization+The benefits of CLan tech, while Clans get CLan locked stuff with clan tech and heavier IS weapons?

[Yokaiko]

LordKnightFandragon, on 14 September 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

So in the end, the IS get IS Customization+The benefits of CLan tech, while Clans get CLan locked stuff with clan tech and heavier IS weapons?

Sounds fair right?

[Soldier91]

Nice video.

Did anything about ammo count get mentioned for balance changes?
It can take up a lot of slots and tonnage it can be kind of challenging to set up a mech that can make it work but when you get to matches like CW I kind of cringe thinking of bringing anything besides lasers because you never know how long that mech can last ammo dependent weapon has a very hard limit of how much damage it can potentially do so it just makes sense to load up on lasers. Like I get it should be a strategic decision and all the sensor changes have made me wonder what LRM leaning mechs are going to have to drop a lot of missiles for sensor stuff just to get them on target. Most IS mechs can't spare the needed slot/halfton for a case for the ammo already.

Suppose this sort of makes me think I should probably buy whatever mech I feel like getting since it's more of a re-quirk-ening than a de-quirk-ening

[Keulenkommando]

Well im not that mutch active on the forums, but I wouldnt balance Clan vs IS at all. For CW, make games 12 vs 10. For normal games make every ClanMech be calculated as a 1.2 more heavy mech for the matchmaker. The more clanmech a side has, the less overall tonnage they get.

Im shure this has bin suggested multiple times in the past. I can understand that this was something that could not be done on a side note. But since they are at a major overhall anyway, why not think about it again.

[Kilo 40]

LordKnightFandragon, on 14 September 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

and heavier IS weapons?

some are heavier, yes. but don't forget they also have significantly shorter burn duration and the are much cooler than the clan tech.

[Lostdragon]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

I get what your saying, but as I pointed out in the video. I think it is important to fix some of the foundations of the issues we see with balance (skill tree values being tuned down is also coming on PTS soon).

So I'd say I don't think introducing new weapons systems is the answer, but if this is done and done correctly, introducing them will be a lot easier (balance wise) in the near future if PGI chooses.

Weapons are the foundation of the game, the building blocks of the mechlab. I look at a mech and it's hardpoints or available omnipods and think about what weapons I would like to use with it. Then I put those weapons on and add any necessary ammo. After that I start thinking about engines, heat sinks, armor distribution, etc. This game is all about killing the other guy so the weapon loadouts are paramount.

It could be argues that there are other aspects of a mech like hardpoints and hitboxes that are more foundational, but we as players have no control over those. What we can control is which weapons we choose for a mech, making them our building blocks. Everyone knows that any building with a bad foundation is in trouble.

Trying to balance other aspects of the game before balancing weapons is like trying to construct a building by starting with the roof: it is just going to waste a lot of time and cause a lot of frustration.

How can you possibly expect to give appropriate structure and armor quirks without balanced weapons? How can you determine a mech is so powerful that it needs to have some negative agility quirks if you have not balanced the weapons? How can you say a mech is so lacking in firepower that it needs big sensor and agility quirks to give it a role if you have not balanced the weapons?

[Yokaiko]

Like I said, damage control.

[Mycrus]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

I get what your saying, but as I pointed out in the video. I think it is important to fix some of the foundations of the issues we see with balance (skill tree values being tuned down is also coming on PTS soon).

So I'd say I don't think introducing new weapons systems is the answer, but if this is done and done correctly, introducing them will be a lot easier (balance wise) in the near future if PGI chooses.

re: PTS was just for whatever test...

maybe you can tell your masters to communicate rather than expect that their player base is psychic..

let me guess IGP made them do eet.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

XX Sulla XX, on 13 September 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Sean yes all the new idea for balance are interesting and can be worked out. Except for one huge thing

That this was being put on the live server - according to the town hall - until they discovered a hardware issue then we'd have all this but no pts

[SgtMagor]

I would be happy if  the Atlas will finally gets structure and armor buffs that would really help.
A 'Mech as powerful as possible, as impenetrable as possible, and as ugly and foreboding as conceivable, so that fear itself will be our ally.  ”  
-Aleksandr Kerensky[6]

Edited by SgtMagor, 14 September 2015 - 05:44 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 September 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

That this was being put on the live server - according to the town hall - until they discovered a hardware issue then we'd have all this but no pts

Yeah, I'm having a hard time buying what they are trying to sell us now.

[JohnnyWayne]

I have a problem with giving mechs that depend on information less information avaible. A direwolf just chews through any target he has. That is something you can't do in a light mech and I'm talking about the ACH. It takes about 6 seconds you have to stand behind a target to get a lock on. This completely destroys it as a ganking type of light mech.

You still can brawl in it as long as you hide behind the team (SPL arnt really meant for that), but when its just you and you need information on what mech you even face (call sign) all you can do is spray and pray.

Over all that red dorito delay is something that drives me nuts on the PTS. Before I have that I don't even need to start fireing as I probably waste most of my shots.

It also doesn't make sense to me. When the enemy fires you should get an instant lock option as sensors that don't detect that can be completely removed. When you close up, you should get faster to instant locks in general and the exact state a mech is in should also be revealed faster, not slower.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 14 September 2015 - 05:54 AM.

[sycocys]

Just started watching this - why wasn't the first 5 minutes of this posted to us at the start of or before the pts? I would have gladly tested out range stuff but it was passed to us as "This is the first iteration of the new balance pass."

Makes a world of difference if you actually communicate with your players.

[Lostdragon]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

Just started watching this - why wasn't the first 5 minutes of this posted to us at the start of or before the pts? I would have gladly tested out range stuff but it was passed to us as "This is the first iteration of the new balance pass."

Makes a world of difference if you actually communicate with your players.

This video strikes me as damage control. Did everyone already forget they were going to push this PTS build live next week?

[JohnnyWayne]

No, that was never planned. They even stated before that there would be several PTS sessions before this goes live.

Out of the anouncement:

Quote

We expect to have a public test or two with the full pass in early September.

It was always about the PTS not live. I dont know why it was communicated in that strange way.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 14 September 2015 - 06:02 AM.

[Yokaiko]

JohnnyWayne, on 14 September 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

No, that was never planned. They even stated before that there would be several PTS sessions before this goes live.

Out of the anouncement:



It was always about the PTS not live. I dont know why it was communicated in that strange way.

Not really they backed out a day or two before and said they were delaying it.

[Lostdragon]

JohnnyWayne, on 14 September 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

No, that was never planned. They even stated before that there would be several PTS sessions before this goes live.

Out of the anouncement:



It was always about the PTS not live. I dont know why it was communicated in that strange way.

I have to get ready for work now so I can't dig through to find the tweets and posts about this, but the plan originally was definitely to go live Sept 22nd.

[JohnnyWayne]

Lostdragon, on 14 September 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

I have to get ready for work now so I can't dig through to find the tweets and posts about this, but the plan originally was definitely to go live Sept 22nd.

Lol. You guys serious? It was probably Russ telling that everyone. As far as I understood it, this would take a lot of time. And the community had to agree to the changes (which will never happen).

[reign]

Really don't understand the Pitch Forks on this... When the PTS was first announced months ago it was stated that if the ideas didn't work out it would be scrapped entirely.. Not just pushed out.

Were in phase 1 of a long re balancing... If you really want to assist, log on make notes of your favorite items.. how it performs... then go into the forums on those chassis and comment on what you would like to see.

Lostdragon, on 14 September 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

I have to get ready for work now so I can't dig through to find the tweets and posts about this, but the plan originally was definitely to go live Sept 22nd.

Only thing on the 22nd is Black Knight and new Training missions... In the town hall Russ said the earliest Rebalancing could come out would be the 6th .. and more likely it might slide all the way into November.

[Lostdragon]

JohnnyWayne, on 14 September 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Lol. You guys serious? It was probably Russ telling that everyone. As far as I understood it, this would take a lot of time. And the community had to agree to the changes (which will never happen).

It was in the Roadmap: http://mwomercs.com/...ember-road-map/

Quote

September 22nd

Blacknight Battlemech - Dead sexy IS laser vomit.

New Tutorial - I will let you all experience it for yourselves without much to spoil it but I think all will agree that it represents an enormous improvement over any past efforts and begins to tease towards a future in MWO where PvE missions will exist.

Mech rebalance - Not to be confused with Table top battle value but think of it as an all inclusive new balance pass on the game. In short it includes putting every mech in the game into a new document. Analyzing all aspects of that mech from it's geometry shape, placement of hard points, number of hard points and assigning a value. The resulting value is then used in a balancing matrix which focuses on 4 key properties of a 'Mech; firepower, mobility, protection and sensors. With this information we work on quirks and other aspects of the mechs to attempt to achieve the best balance possible. We expect to have a public test or two with the full pass in early September.

Edit: Cleaned up. As you can see from their Roadmap they did not plan to do several iterations of this balance pass. They planned to put it on the PTS in early September and go live next week, just like I said.

Edited by Lostdragon, 14 September 2015 - 06:16 AM.