566 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Dunereaper, on 14 September 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Lot of fire powa on the hero tho. Hard choice

and when the Meta shifts again away from Laservomit, will it still have "lotta powa"?

[Dunereaper]

No it won't but thats when the meta changes

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Paul's all but confirmed he's going to be updating Sphere guns/hammering Clan guns when the Great Rebalancing gets around to inter-tech balance, and I believe someone mentioned that pilot skill efficiencies are being tuned down on PTS in the near future, i.e. less icedancing fatbros from doubled ridicu-basics. Everybody's going to be slower. You may be less dead than you previously believed.

Besides, again - what're you willing to give up for the same 360 engine rating every other Marauder gets? Those Marauders give up a hardpoint to the Bounty Hunter, and also get less energy overall. The Bounty Hunter has a nearly ideal hardpoint type spread (GO GO GAUSSLASERS. Or AC/10lasers), and enough E to make a pretty ferocious fusillade.

I get it, it'd be nice if it could keep up with the 4/6 bracket, but A.) there has to be some room left for the Black Knigget to have a job next to the 7E jumping better-hitboxes ballistics-toting Man Mode-rauder, and B.) if they gave it the same 360 rating as the standard chassis, it'd also largely obsolete its own lesser kin.

They don't want one 'Mech to be able to do everything anymore, remember?

I think the Marauder sweet spot will probably be in the 325 range because of the ballistic, while the Black Knight will go XL 350 for sure, and XL375 on the one variant. Leaves plenty of room for the bounty hunter to do its thing with a 300. Not to mention, the BH has a head laser and 6 arm lasers. The BK, having 4 torso lasers, is already up ahead in laser vomit, because it can use shield arms without losing half of its firepower.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Paul's all but confirmed he's going to be updating Sphere guns/hammering Clan guns when the Great Rebalancing gets around to inter-tech balance, and I believe someone mentioned that pilot skill efficiencies are being tuned down on PTS in the near future, i.e. less icedancing fatbros from doubled ridicu-basics. Everybody's going to be slower. You may be less dead than you previously believed.

Besides, again - what're you willing to give up for the same 360 engine rating every other Marauder gets? Those Marauders give up a hardpoint to the Bounty Hunter, and also get less energy overall. The Bounty Hunter has a nearly ideal hardpoint type spread (GO GO GAUSSLASERS. Or AC/10lasers), and enough E to make a pretty ferocious fusillade.

I get it, it'd be nice if it could keep up with the 4/6 bracket, but A.) there has to be some room left for the Black Knigget to have a job next to the 7E jumping better-hitboxes ballistics-toting Man Mode-rauder, and B.) if they gave it the same 360 rating as the standard chassis, it'd also largely obsolete its own lesser kin.

They don't want one 'Mech to be able to do everything anymore, remember?

don't care about a 360. 300 or 325 will do. IS laser vomit also needs the internal DHS.

[Appogee]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

What are you going to do 3 AC2 and 4x MLs? MGs? But the engine cap will still keep it more viable

I was thinking 2AC5s and 4MLs,

[Rhavin]

Marauders are not my fave unseen, like many others I prefer the Warhammer. Mech has some potential depending on hit boxes, the lowered max engine on the BH is bunk though. Should be 300.

Pay scheme on this doesn't bother me either, 20 dollar package is plenty of mechadestruction for many people including myself and keeps people from being paycheck gated. Hope Warhammer is released in a similar manner and soon.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dunereaper, on 14 September 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

No it won't but thats when the meta changes

well, I don't buy Heroes with planned obsolescence involved.

[1453 R]

I agree, the headbeamer's not as valuable as, say, an LT energy or even CT energy. It is, however, still there. The only gun that stands no chance of killing your enemy is the flamer gun that isn't there.

Would a 300 be better? Of course. I just figure it's going to come down to the fact that, much like the IV4, being unusually sluggish is sorta part of what makes the Bounty Hunter the Bounty Hunter. People want more lore-appropriate Heroes? Well, BH decided that for whatever reason his personal ride was going to move like an Atlas. Would I have made the same decision? Not really, no. But if I'm going to be flying his 'Mech, I get to deal with his decisions.

Or are we going to go back and demand a 360 engine on the IV4, too? Nobody cared when it was just a Quickdraw nobody was going to buy anyways, eh? Heh, lower-than-meta engine caps are only important when it's on a Marauder?

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

I agree, the headbeamer's not as valuable as, say, an LT energy or even CT energy. It is, however, still there. The only gun that stands no chance of killing your enemy is the flamer gun that isn't there.

Would a 300 be better? Of course. I just figure it's going to come down to the fact that, much like the IV4, being unusually sluggish is sorta part of what makes the Bounty Hunter the Bounty Hunter. People want more lore-appropriate Heroes? Well, BH decided that for whatever reason his personal ride was going to move like an Atlas. Would I have made the same decision? Not really, no. But if I'm going to be flying his 'Mech, I get to deal with his decisions.

Or are we going to go back and demand a 360 engine on the IV4, too? Nobody cared when it was just a Quickdraw nobody was going to buy anyways, eh? Heh, lower-than-meta engine caps are only important when it's on a Marauder?

actually, I made a post about the IV4 back in the day. It was already an easy mech to kill, IV4s are laughably easy

[Deathlike]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

I agree, the headbeamer's not as valuable as, say, an LT energy or even CT energy. It is, however, still there. The only gun that stands no chance of killing your enemy is the flamer gun that isn't there.

Would a 300 be better? Of course. I just figure it's going to come down to the fact that, much like the IV4, being unusually sluggish is sorta part of what makes the Bounty Hunter the Bounty Hunter. People want more lore-appropriate Heroes? Well, BH decided that for whatever reason his personal ride was going to move like an Atlas. Would I have made the same decision? Not really, no. But if I'm going to be flying his 'Mech, I get to deal with his decisions.

Or are we going to go back and demand a 360 engine on the IV4, too? Nobody cared when it was just a Quickdraw nobody was going to buy anyways, eh? Heh, lower-than-meta engine caps are only important when it's on a Marauder?

Just because the CAP is on a Mist Lynx... it doesn't mean that helps the mech out at all.

To use that hardpoint, you'd only fit in a Med Laser or MPL... for a mech that ALREADY runs slow, you might as well ask for energy range quirks to go with that... which PGI's trying to deemphasize as much as possible.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

actually, I made a post about the IV4 back in the day. It was already an easy mech to kill, IV4s are laughably easy

Like the Pretty Baby, I don't see these mechs roam ever. Even the X5, Oxide, or even the Dragon Slayer shows up once in a blue moon.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

I just figure it's going to come down to the fact that, much like the IV4, being unusually sluggish is sorta part of what makes the Bounty Hunter the Bounty Hunter.

There's sluggish, and then there's not really viable. And while I understand your point regarding hardpoints, an extra head laser isn't a 360 vs 275 level extra hardpoint.

A 300 would be sluggish. Probably still too sluggish for my taste, if I'm realistic.

A 275 isn't viable on a heavy that large. It's just a target, and one that's easy to kill at that.

This is like the Urbanmech all over again. People argued that it should be slow without considering that tabletop Urbanmech slow isn't viable in MWO. So we got stuck with a 180 cap, and while there are people who can make that work it's really too slow for most matches.

Please don't gimp the Marauder the same way. A 325 cap would still leave plenty of differentiation between the BH and the other Marauders. A 275 cap just makes it bad.

[C E Dwyer]

didn't look at the engine size..lol..now I know what the RAF felt like with their slow Phantom II's

[1453 R]

Roadkill, on 14 September 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

...
Please don't gimp the Marauder the same way. A 325 cap would still leave plenty of differentiation between the BH and the other Marauders. A 275 cap just makes it bad.

Speaking specifically to this point more than anything else...I don't really think so.

Given the general Sphere modus operandi, I don't foresee Marauders ever going above 325 rating in the existing or any likely upcoming state of the game. Yes, Speed is Life, but nobody, nobody, nobody likes going to 350 or higher without at least seven reasons. If the Marauder has the Stalker-style hitboxes a lot of folks are expecting, it'll be decidedly biased towards STD engines, and you're not getting a STD350 on anything worth driving that weighs less'n 90 tons. STD325 is about the ceiling you can get into for reasonable-tonnage STD engines.

Given this...a Bounty Hunter with a 325 engine cap is effectively just as fast as any reasonable Marauder build on the other variants will be, but also has the benefit of vastly superior energy firepower as well as the crucial single ballistic slot it needs to effectively obsolete the Black Knight, as well. Also it still jumps just as well as the jumpy standard Marauders.

A 300 rating would be reasonable, though it'd also be patently unfair to the IV4. 325 is too much, considering that if all else was equal nobody would blink an eye at saying that the Bounty Hunter is far and away the best of the three.

Besides. If my Warhawks can* brawl at 71kph with their barn-tier hitboxes and ankle-mounted hardpoints, your 7E/1B jumping Marauders with skyhook ballistics and headbeams can sure as shootin' do it

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 14 September 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

There's sluggish, and then there's not really viable. And while I understand your point regarding hardpoints, an extra head laser isn't a 360 vs 275 level extra hardpoint.

A 300 would be sluggish. Probably still too sluggish for my taste, if I'm realistic.

A 275 isn't viable on a heavy that large. It's just a target, and one that's easy to kill at that.

This is like the Urbanmech all over again. People argued that it should be slow without considering that tabletop Urbanmech slow isn't viable in MWO. So we got stuck with a 180 cap, and while there are people who can make that work it's really too slow for most matches.

Please don't gimp the Marauder the same way. A 325 cap would still leave plenty of differentiation between the BH and the other Marauders. A 275 cap just makes it bad.

Urbie rules with 18o. But MAD is not an Urbie

But another thing we don't know is what will it's Size category be?

[Alienized]

highlander syndrome...
capped capabilities by engine capping...

[Speedy Plysitkos]

i dunno. 275 is fine.

and now gimme my urbie hero.

[Dimento Graven]

Titannium, on 14 September 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

i dunno. 275 is fine.

and now gimme my urbie hero.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 September 2015 - 02:28 PM.

[Hawk819]

Well, I'm cool with it.

[Corbon Zackery]

Its a weird package due to the haste of it dropping.

MAS-3R: Is the basic version from the box set.

MAD-5D: The 5D Marauder is an upgrade of the 3D model. The 'Mech's engine has been upgraded to an XL Engine to save weight, and the entire weapons payload has been stripped out and upgraded. The 5Ds primary weapons are two ER PPCs, which increase the PPCs range. The Large Laser has been replaced with a Large Pulse Laser, and the Medium Lasers have been replaced with two Medium Pulse Lasers. A Streak SRM-2 launcher has also been added to the 'Mech for more close range protection. It is protected by fourteen tons of armor. The 5D has a jumping capability of up to 120 meters

MAD-5M: The 5M variant of the Marauder replaces the fusion engine with an XL Engine and completely re-arms the 'Mech with recovered Star League-era weapons. The primary weapons are two Large Pulse Lasers, which are backed up by two Medium Pulse Lasers. Finally, in place of the Autocannon/5, the 5M carries an LB-X Autocannon/10. The 5M has a jumping distance of up to one hundred and twenty meters

Bounty Hunter model (3015): This unusual variant features lostech, the standard 300 Vlar fusion engine has been downgrade to 225 version giving it a top speed of 54 kph. It mounts a standard PPC and a Medium Laser in each arm. Another PPC and Medium Laser are mounted on the right torso, with additional Medium Lasers mounted on the center and left torso. 16 Double Heat Sinks are use to cool this beast down allowing it to firing all 3 PPCs without even generating excess heat. It features 14.5 tons of standard armor giving it maximum armor for it's weight and capable of jumping over 90 meters. It's painted all green with credit symbols!!!!!!!

Bounty Hunter model (3044): The Bounty Hunter upgraded his Marauder sometime in 3044, the fusion engine was upgrade to an extra-light version while keeping it at the same rating to save weight but with it's increase size 3 Double Heat Sinks were removed. The standard PPCs were upgrade to ERPPC, both the left and right torso mounted Medium Lasers were removed while the center torso Medium Laser was moved to the head to make room for a Gauss Rifle on the right torso and 2 tons of ammunition. This upgrade allow the Bounty Hunter to engage its enemies at a far greater range while still able to continuously operate without fear of overheating.

So it depends on witch one we get but the Eng. gets downgraded to a 225 so you can't max it out at 300. Bounty Hunter is designed for long to med. range combat so your not walking up to something and pounding it.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 14 September 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I seriously hope PGI doesn't cave on this.
The 275 engine cap seems like a good limit on the bounty hunter. Its hardpoints and jumpjets already make it a contender, anything more would outclass all of its contemporaries: Orion, Black Knight, Cataphract, Grasshopper.