566 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

They need to just make it 350 and be done with it. As I mentioned I will not be buying it if there is no decent engine cap.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Besides. If my Warhawks can* brawl at 71kph with their barn-tier hitboxes and ankle-mounted hardpoints, your 7E/1B jumping Marauders with skyhook ballistics and headbeams can sure as shootin' do it

That would be an entirely reasonable argument if the Bounty Hunter were not a $15 hero Mech.

I might buy a regular Marauder for c-bills, give it a try, and decide that it's too slow (or doesn't have enough E, or can't jump high enough, or whatever). No big deal, it's just c-bills.

But I'm not going to spend $15 on a Mech unless I feel relatively certain that it's right. Not just viable, but fully right. It has to be competitive and useful. (But also not OP... queue the P2W crowd.)

I understand that it's difficult to hit that mark. I also understand that some people - perhaps a LOT of people - will buy the Bounty Hunter just because it's a freakin' Marauder Hero Mech.

I'm not attached to the Lore. Other than the Urbie, I'm not going to buy something just because. (And my reason for the Urbie is different than everyone elses.) A 275 cap will be a ... okay let's call it a poor Mech. You will have to run a max engine which hurts variety.

Someone will run this on one of the other variants. (Streak standing in for 3xMG.) I'm sure there are other strange builds that people will play as well that make use of engines > 325.

If PGI gimps the Bounty Hunter with a 275 they'll lose out on sales. Plain and simple.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

And Id have bought it as well if not for the wtf engine

[XX Sulla XX]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 September 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Nah, a STD 275 is about all you can fit with a gauss and 2PPC or 3LL. Which is gonna be the Ideal build for it considering its hard points.

You can fit 3 LLs and a gauss 3 tons of ammo and a 350 xl engine and full armor and enough heat sinks etc. Its stupid to put a 275 cap on it. I would rather be going 83.2 than 65.3. I can spread a lot more damage being more agile than the standard engine makes up for.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ad12b3e33ce4c1b

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 14 September 2015 - 03:46 PM.

[kazlaton]

Yes, the 275 engine cap is a deal breaker. Not going to give PGI my cash for this.

[sycocys]

Escef, on 14 September 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

It's more comparable to the Urbanmech pack; $20 for 3, $40 for 4. The only thing it's really missing is a premium time bonus. I'm not worried about premium time (between active and banked I've got around 6 months of premium), but it might be a nice reward to toss in.

I forgot about the urbie pack, maybe this has as much cult dedication I don't know? Not a huge subscriber to the canon as much as the MW games.

Premium time doesn't even play any factor for me in these things anymore sitting on 6k+ hours banked.

[Wintersdark]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

I would disgree, I think a 7E1B mech with a 360 engine cap and jump jets would be blatant P2W. Even at a 300 engine cap I would take it in a heartbeat over every other mech in its weight class.

360 cap wouldn't be "blatant P2W" but it also would be too good; the BH2 does gain some firepower and should pay for that. A 300 cap, however, would leave it at a non-terrible speed, but still capped well below the other variants.

Quote

The good news is that PGI made a consession to players who think a slow mech is death sentence.

the MAD-BH2 is priced 25% cheaper than the MAD-3R(S), which is probably the weakest of the variants in the list.Basically a standard pack costs $20 (for 3 standed mechs, no bonuses)
+ $20 gets you an additional MAD-3R(S) with a 30% C-Bill bonus
+ $15 gets you the MAD-BH2 (bounty hunter) with a 30% C-Bill bonus.

Yeah, you are getting a massive discount on a C-Bill bonus mech. I am pretty sure PGI wouldn't sell any MAD-3R(S) if the MAD-BH2 had a larger engine capacity.

The MAD-3R is a totally different mech; at a 360 cap vs. a proposed 300 cap on the BH2, it's gaining much ballistic flexibility (2/3x ac5, 2xuac5, 3xac2, 2xlbx10 options) at a very minor cost in energy hardpoints. 4E 3B isn't a bad set of hardpoints, and it remains substantially faster as well.

I understand how a larger engine cap is exceptionally useful to the BH2, as getting more internal DHS is critically important to a 7E mech. But really, going to a 300 cap is hardly breaking. As it stands, the BH2 is a fairly poor variant overall. Way too little usable firepower for a mech of that speed.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

yes

though it does remind me of how they give with one hand and take with the other, like giving the possibility of 4 man groups but with the blatantly stupid idea of 1/1/1/1

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 14 September 2015 - 03:50 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I seriously hope PGI doesn't cave on this.
The 275 engine cap seems like a good limit on the bounty hunter. Its hardpoints and jumpjets already make it a contender, anything more would outclass all of its contemporaries: Orion, Black Knight, Cataphract, Grasshopper.

I'm afraid a 65 kph 75 tonner will be automatically be outclassed by three of those 4 mechs mentioned.

I can't possibly see how making it run 71 kph would outclass those other mechs, I just don't see it. It just gives it enough speed to move around effectively. BK/Grasshopper are 83kph heavies, for reference.

[1453 R]

Roadkill, on 14 September 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

*points*

Yes, but let's face it, Roadkill - people would also laff at whoever drove a 350XL Marauder with MGs and iLPLs and tell them they were Marauder-ing wrong. That won't stop people from doing it, no, but there's also nothing stopping people from putting a 250 in the Bounty Hunter and loading up on Goose, ERLL, and backup MLs with heat sinks and such and making a five-tons-less assault 'Mech out of it. Is that a fantastic idea? Not really, no - but if assault 'Mechs with lousy geometry, knee-mounted guns, and 70-degree twist arcs can get away with moving that speed with that level of firepower, a Marauder with jump jets, actually-pretty-good geometry, skyhook ballistics and presumably a wider-than-70 twist arc can do it just fine.

In the realm of actual, realistic advantage, giving the Bounty Hunter a 325 cap largely obsoletes the Black Knight, the Grasshopper, the other three Marauders, and also the Cataphract and most of the C-bill JagerMechs. To say nothing of what it's already doing to Orions. That'd be the sort of 'Mech that would've had the playerbase screaming PEE TWO DUBBLJOO!!1! before the Clan release, and with the Nerfinator back on board we're going to be seeing some sharp nosedives in Clan efficiency sooner rather than later.

A case can be made for 300. 300 seems workable, though it's a little sad to see the Bounty Hunter's character eroded like that. After all, 100+kph UrbanMooks are not UrbanMooks. 325? Too much. Not when half the other Marauders in the game, as well as most Orions, a number of Black Knights, and the majority of Phracts/Hoppers, are going to be on 300-rated engines themselves.

[Wintersdark]

XX Sulla XX, on 14 September 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

They need to just make it 350 and be done with it. As I mentioned I will not be buying it if there is no decent engine cap.

350 would probably be too good for the BH2 relative to the other variants. Mostly because of the internal DHS. But I strongly, strongly think it out to have at least a 300 limit, maybe even 325. At 275, it's a gimped mech. Slow, poor cooling, extremely limited loadout options.

[Escef]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

I forgot about the urbie pack, maybe this has as much cult dedication I don't know? Not a huge subscriber to the canon as much as the MW games.

People have been waiting for this for over a decade. Heaven's forbid, I'm a pretty dour person most of the time, and the Marauder announcement had me almost giddy. Normally after i pull my shift on Thursday night (yes, I work nights), I go home putter around the house for a bit, do my livestream, than hang out with friends for Friday morning D&D, and by 2 PM I'm pretty much wasted. This past week D&D went to 3 PM and I was fine, still running on Marauder enthusiasm.

[AEgg]

It's a pay only mech with better hardpoints than the other variants. If it didn't have a lower engine cap it would be a really, really bad example.

[XX Sulla XX]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

I'm afraid a 65 kph 75 tonner will be automatically be outclassed by three of those 4 mechs mentioned.

I can't possibly see how making it run 71 kph would outclass those other mechs, I just don't see it. It just gives it enough speed to move around effectively. BK/Grasshopper are 83kph heavies, for reference.

Needs a 350 or 360 cap. Nothing special enough about it to limit to a slow speed.

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

350 would probably be too good for the BH2 relative to the other variants. Mostly because of the internal DHS. But I strongly, strongly think it out to have at least a 300 limit, maybe even 325. At 275, it's a gimped mech. Slow, poor cooling, extremely limited loadout options.

Well if we are asking for a change we should ask for the 350 limit The 275 is just silly.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

Yes, but let's face it, Roadkill - people would also laff at whoever drove a 350XL Marauder with MGs and iLPLs and tell them they were Marauder-ing wrong.

let them.

Ill PAY for a marauder hero with a non gimped engine, I wont pay for one that has crap

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

350 would probably be too good for the BH2 relative to the other variants. Mostly because of the internal DHS. But I strongly, strongly think it out to have at least a 300 limit, maybe even 325. At 275, it's a gimped mech. Slow, poor cooling, extremely limited loadout options.

this

[Wintersdark]

XX Sulla XX, on 14 September 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

Needs a 350 or 360 cap. Nothing special enough about it to limit to a slow speed.

Well if we are asking for a change we should ask for the 350 limit The 275 is just silly.

I'll absolutely agree that the 275 is silly. It's ridiculous, and it's even worse on the BH2 than it would be on any of the other variants. Must be at least 300 for me to buy it.

275 makes it a very poor Marauder variant, period.

[XX Sulla XX]

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

360 cap wouldn't be "blatant P2W" but it also would be too good; the BH2 does gain some firepower and should pay for that. A 300 cap, however, would leave it at a non-terrible speed, but still capped well below the other variants.


The MAD-3R is a totally different mech; at a 360 cap vs. a proposed 300 cap on the BH2, it's gaining much ballistic flexibility (2/3x ac5, 2xuac5, 3xac2, 2xlbx10 options) at a very minor cost in energy hardpoints. 4E 3B isn't a bad set of hardpoints, and it remains substantially faster as well.

I understand how a larger engine cap is exceptionally useful to the BH2, as getting more internal DHS is critically important to a 7E mech. But really, going to a 300 cap is hardly breaking. As it stands, the BH2 is a fairly poor variant overall. Way too little usable firepower for a mech of that speed.

No see it cant make effective use of energy. No matter what energy loadout it loaded with it will be outclassed by the Timber Wolf. And even giving it a 350 cap would only make it about as good as a Grasshopper is now. In other words not that great.

[bad arcade kitty]

2 additional energy (+1 head +1 arm) and 1 rt ballistic less over mad-5m doesn't woth to change 360 engine limit to 275

i didn't want to buy the hero (i will probably get the cheapest 20$ package), but i want to meet them on the battlefield.. i support the petition to increase the engine limit for them

[XX Sulla XX]

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

I'll absolutely agree that the 275 is silly. It's ridiculous, and it's even worse on the BH2 than it would be on any of the other variants. Must be at least 300 for me to buy it.

275 makes it a very poor Marauder variant, period.

Exactly compare it to other good heavies and with a 275 there would be no reason to buy it or use it at all.

[zagibu]

AEgg, on 14 September 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

It's a pay only mech with better hardpoints than the other variants. If it didn't have a lower engine cap it would be a really, really bad example.

Better hardpoints? Maybe than the 5D. IS lasers aren't great without massive quirks, remember? Also, it would still have a massively lower engine rating than the other variants with 300.