113 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Screech, on 21 September 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Would be like weeding in a garden. I doubt they would be missed.

Uh huh

[Mycrus]

Yokaiko, on 21 September 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

Well 9 maps you have a 1:81 chance of getting what you need.

Is that how you justify it?

[Sarlic]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

Seriously, not THIS again,
ppl can still kamikaze, overheat, go oobs, etc etc etc.
Stop blaming the player! Direct your energy and frustration to the true culprit!

You still have a responsibility

You, and you alone are responsible for your own actions.

It's not that hard to understand.

PGI is to blame for a terrible event set up with requirements and random maps. But the players are not willing to suck it up and lose. Cant blame them for disconnecting but that does not leave your own intentional action the fact that you did it.

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

I'm always open to changing my mind, you have to present a solid argument first.

I played very little in the weekend.

We had two intentional disconnects this morning. Both two Assault players.
I could tell because the previous matches it were both the exact players who disconnected as well.

Now i don't have to tell what our outcome was, right? With intentional disconnecting you set your team even more at a false start.

Its rotten behaviour. End of story.

Edited by Sarlic, 21 September 2015 - 07:39 AM.

[Yokaiko]

u mad

[Screech]

Yokaiko, on 21 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Uh huh

Yah huh.

[DAEDALOS513]

Daelen Rottiger, on 21 September 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

To say it in a diplomatic fashion - people are different.

You might waste time and energy trying to change peoples mind here. Feels sad to say that.

I'm always open to changing my mind, you have to present a solid argument first.

[Davers]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Noooo, I HATE ''participation ribbons.'' They should design challenges that make sense. Keep the scoring requirement, double or triple the number of maps required, BUT allow any maps to qualify!! So simple I don't even...

The scores were so easy to get, the only thing hard about the contest was map frequency. Take that away, and it is a Participation Trophy. You have created a contest that everyone can win in about 15 games. Maybe a little more to get the 400 point reward.

[Shae Starfyre]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

I'm always open to changing my mind, you have to present a solid argument first.

I couldn't resist because of your signature:


Some minds remain open long enough for the truth not only to enter but to pass on through by way of a ready exit without pausing anywhere along the route.

- Elizabeth Kenny

[DAEDALOS513]

Sarlic, on 21 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

You still have a responsibility

You, and you alone are responsible for your own actions.

It's not that hard to understand.

PGI is to blame for a terrible event set up with requirements and random maps. But the players are not willing to suck it up and lose. Cant blame them for disconnecting but that does not leave your own intentional action.

PGI will probaly do through a grey area and will not ban people, but i think a warning is fair.

Actions speak louder than words.. remember this in life. Right now PGI is pouring over the data, seeing all the dc's and realizing what a disaster this event has become. They are (hopefully) thinking: "Wow, the challenge parameters we implemented did not create a pleasurable gaming experience for our paying customers, we should make sure this does not happen again!"

Now, Sarlic, do you think if ppl DID NOT dc and outrage, that pgi would hold another event similar to this? They WOULD, so you should actually be thanking those martyrs.

[crashlogic]

From Yokaiko "Well 9 maps you have a 1:81 chance of getting what you need." This is only true if the map selection is not weighted. For example I saw Forest colony and River City dozens of times, and had a regular smattering of HPG, Tourmaline, Caustic, HPG and crimson. I played each of the maps like 10x for every time I got Mining collective. IF MC had been in the rotation like say HPG, then I would have completed it early. As it is, it popped up infrequently, and each time I was plagued by Discos who were looking for other maps. The problems are related. If the Disco bug could not be fixed, the event should have been cancelled, removal of the disco made things even worse. PGI knew the vent needed the disco penalty, removing it was not the answer. There were better ways this event could have been implemented (reduce maps and increase frequency, or better, include all maps and take 300 scores or 400 scores from any 8 different maps.)
The point is, the failure of this event across a wide portion of the community really does fall on PGI shoulders.

Edited by crashlogic, 21 September 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Sarlic, on 21 September 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Seriously.

Not this again.

You still have a responsebility if you intentional disconnect.

It's like the SWOL thread over again but then with Disconnects.

Ug, to avoid going into details per dev request we literally gained nothing from demonstrating how the CW part of the event was broken. We did the demonstration over 3 matches on 2 maps over which most everyone already had their points. We know the top score will be wiped and purposely made it so obnoxious that the developers would have to remove it.

Our unit takes full responsibility for showing how broken this section of the tournament was and will standby our actions as this tournament was exploitable as all hell and we want it fixed going forward.

With that said this tournament was completely lame and all of the moralizers on the forums are just hilarious. This is a game to most people and if something is designed so poorly that it is easy to exploit they will do it.

You can argue your moral superiority all you want about how you ground for 48+ hours in front of your monitor legit but most will not put up with it and either quit or take the easy route.

The thing you should be afraid of is that people will simply quit playing the game because how poorly designed it is for many events. Rather than try to argue the great moral responsibilities of big stompy robots why don't you focus your energy on demanding the devs fix things before we have no one left to play with in a few months as our game population is already low.

[Sarlic]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Actions speak louder than words.. remember this in life. Right now PGI is pouring over the data, seeing all the dc's and realizing what a disaster this event has become. They are (hopefully) thinking: "Wow, the challenge parameters we implemented did not create a pleasurable gaming experience for our paying customers, we should make sure this does not happen again!"

Now, Sarlic, do you think if ppl DID NOT dc and outrage, that pgi would hold another event similar to this? They WOULD, so you should actually be thanking those martyrs.

It's not a attack to you or something.

I am just expressing the difference between a intentional disconnect and a unintentional disconnect. The only thing to differ is that you can tell if someone is intentionally disconnecting after two or three times.

I do agree on your reasoning that players are doing it because of the poor set up event.

But what about sending a e-mail or hence even a nudge on Twitter to make some magic and try to inform PGI. I have seen several 'math' threads on how this event could be set up on a different way.

Which comes to the point when you intentional disconnect you still leave your team behind. It's intentional rotten behaviour and some people will not hestitate to do it every match untill they have the right map.

I agree on the point that PGI could have implented a special map-choice marker on the few remaining maps, but that does not go away that it's still unsportive behaviour.

I think and my opinion that both are having a responsibility and both are not followed. Both PGI and the player.

PGI could have stepped up and implented a map choice or whatever kind of tool you need for the event. But the players need also to take their goddamn responsibility which in many cases are not taking it.

Edited by Sarlic, 21 September 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Aphoticus, on 21 September 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

I couldn't resist because of your signature:


Some minds remain open long enough for the truth not only to enter but to pass on through by way of a ready exit without pausing anywhere along the route.

- Elizabeth Kenny

Nice..
But imagine for a moment a world where no one got angry and people didn't stand up against wrongdoers? No my naive one, what Kenny is sayings is that people who lose their temper and express it in self-destructive/unproductive behaviour are the ones 'conquered.'

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 21 September 2015 - 07:59 AM.

[Sarlic]

Blueduck, on 21 September 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

The thing you should be afraid of is that people will simply quit playing the game because how poorly designed it is for many events. Rather than try to argue the great moral responsibilities of big stompy robots why don't you focus your energy on demanding the devs fix things before we have no one left to play with in a few months as our game population is already low.

I agree.

But moral responsibilities is still something very debatable. Which is causing to lose some respect whenever i see people doing it. Then i mean intentional.

Edited by Sarlic, 21 September 2015 - 07:55 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

This thread can be closed on the following notes:

1. The Disconnect penalties were buggy and HAD to be removed. If you think they should have stayed in their buggy state, then you should not offer your opinions.

2. it would be great to penalize people for disconnecting on purpose during a match within a tournament, but you cannot distinguish between purposeful and incidental (ISP, Client failures).

3. People would not be enticed to DC if they could compete on the maps where they dropped, but the "random" maps and the requirement to win on each one is, effectively, a VERY STRONG INCENTIVE to disconnect if you drop on a map where you won already.

4. PGI should not provide incentives to disconnect from matches during a tournament.

5. Next tournament should be based less on chance and dice rolls.


I think that summarizes it all, right?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 21 September 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Nice..
But imagine for a moment a world where no one got angry and people didn't stand up against wrongdoers? No my naive one, what Kenny is sayings is that people who lose their temper and express it in self-destructive behaviour are the ones 'conquered.'

Yes, I get that. Was just a nice quote too.

I am all for change in the way they do events; but it does appear to me that there are some self-destructive behaviors going on here, game or not, that have to be life affirming or it would not be being seen here.

Conquered, indeed.

[DAEDALOS513]

Sarlic, on 21 September 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

I do agree on your reasoning that players are doing it because of the poor set up event.

But what about sending a e-mail or hence even a nudge on Twitter to make some magic and try to inform PGI.

I can't imagine how many letters PGI gets daily. It usually takes them around 5 days to a week to respond to mine. I still have to say that actions speak louder than words but I would NEVER outright DC. although I must admit I may not play as 'skillfully' as I should on maps I do not need.

Yup, in the final analysis, it will be the server records showing the dc's that will be the final nail in the coffin of future challenges such as this.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Sarlic, on 21 September 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

I agree.

But moral responsibilities is still something very debatable. Which is causing to lose some respect whenever i see people doing it. Then i mean intentional.

I suppose we should just agree to disagree then in that I don't see the moral responsibility of pretend video game robots in an event that is almost primed for this sort of play.

Honestly I've done a total of 2 pub games total for the tournament as it just looked too broken of a concept to take seriously and I have a hard time faulting anyone for using an exploit that was almost begging to be used.

Aimbots and such are obviously wrong but in this case it was almost as if the event was designed around a flawed exploitable mechanic.

Edited by Blueduck, 21 September 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Daelen Rottiger]

Aphoticus, on 21 September 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

If a seed was never planted, there would be no minds to change (grow). (analogy not good; seems off?).

Something about a forest?!? The planting of ideas...and all that.

I picture the first man, sees lightning hit tree, sees fire, and shrugs... man never stops hiding in dark cave at night. Dies from predators.

If only one person who decided to throw caution to the wind and ignore the CoC in this event actually reads what I wrote, and it changes their mind, then it was worth it.

Sow the minds of the masses, and one may grow.

Oh, and then there is my sig motto below.... so who's to say (shrug)?

As I said.... felt sad to say that.

I can feel where you are coming from and envy your opinion.
The world needs more people of that mindset.

[Thorqemada]

Tuesday is a different Story - Players panic and DC maps they already have making at worst so far 1 match having 4 DCs in 1 Team...

Edited by Thorqemada, 21 September 2015 - 11:42 PM.