70 replies to this topic

[GeneralArmchair]

I'm trying to imagine a system where the "rebalance" is anything more substantial than the vague lies politicians say to get elected. "I'll clean up the city and fix the economy" real talk: How exactly? Silence? Then you're just saying what we want to hear and are fishing for praise.

[GeneralArmchair]

@bagheera
How exactly does the black knight scream "pop tart" when none of its variants have jump jets? How does that even work?

[FupDup]

GeneralArmchair, on 22 September 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

@bagheera
How exactly does the black knight scream "pop tart" when none of its variants have jump jets? How does that even work?

He's probably having flashbacks to Mechwarrior 4.

[Davers]

xXBagheeraXx, on 22 September 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

They thought it would become too popular with the Laserbarf meta, and they are all jump capable and come with PPCS. I guess they didnt want PPC poptarting to get too bad. OFC that would only be a thing if it where XL friendly and I'm sure these will all be about the same size as a Victor, or possibly an Atlas.

Hell I thought it would be popular due to the fact that the mech screams "POPTART!!!!" but then again I'm kinda biased from my experience in MW4 with these being THE go-to poptart mech.

Also thought grasshoppers would be popular cause lasers...guess that kinda fell flat on its face too....

I have a question about the rebalance tho...

If they are doing it and doing away with weapon quirks, does that mean global weapons buffs? Some weapons only became decent when run on quirked mechs...AC20's kinda suck without velocity buffs...ac2's and Ac5's are kinda MEH without rate of fire quirks as well...

Dont even get me started on heat reduction and PPC velocity quirks....

To me Thunderbolts are the prime example of mechs that are only viable due to quirks. Before the quirks I never even bothered to Elite these mechs- they were just too painful to run. If they lose the heat generation quirks, then pretty much all the loadouts become too hot to run, and they will get shelved.

[InRev]

So what's the term for the opposite of power creep? Power regression?

Because the Resistance packs are perfect examples of it.

[WarHippy]

Davers, on 22 September 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

To me Thunderbolts are the prime example of mechs that are only viable due to quirks. Before the quirks I never even bothered to Elite these mechs- they were just too painful to run. If they lose the heat generation quirks, then pretty much all the loadouts become too hot to run, and they will get shelved.

Eh, I think people pay too much attention to quirks. I loved the Thunderbolt before quirks were a thing, and I even got Ace of Spades in one before quirks. Don't get me wrong the quirks certainly help a great deal, but they are not the be all and end all of making a mech work.

[Davers]

WarHippy, on 22 September 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Eh, I think people pay too much attention to quirks. I loved the Thunderbolt before quirks were a thing, and I even got Ace of Spades in one before quirks. Don't get me wrong the quirks certainly help a great deal, but they are not the be all and end all of making a mech work.

Good for you.

I HATED Tbolts. I thought they were the worst mech in the entire Phoenix pack. I did not like running them. I didn't even like it when I saw we had some on the team. I felt that every day, in every way, Jagermechs were superior.

[WarHippy]

Davers, on 22 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Good for you.

I HATED Tbolts. I thought they were the worst mech in the entire Phoenix pack. I did not like running them. I didn't even like it when I saw we had some on the team. I felt that every day, in every way, Jagermechs were superior.

Fair enough. I just think currently people focus too much on the quirks, and not enough on the mech itself. The Black Knight may end up being garbage, or it may end up being amazing, but in the end it is going to be the pilot that makes or breaks the mech not these quirks that are little more than a distraction.

[GeneralArmchair]

Focus on the mech itself? You mean how it is a towering target, has low mounted weapons, and no redeemable traits like jump jets or ECM? Ignore the quirks and look at the mech like that?

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Davers, on 22 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Good for you.

I HATED Tbolts. I thought they were the worst mech in the entire Phoenix pack. I did not like running them. I didn't even like it when I saw we had some on the team. I felt that every day, in every way, Jagermechs were superior.

Back in the day when they first came out they were actually good mechs, before the clan invasion. I was running the 5-SS with 2 large lasers and the rest medium lasers and got good matches in it.

[Davers]

WarHippy, on 22 September 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Fair enough. I just think currently people focus too much on the quirks, and not enough on the mech itself. The Black Knight may end up being garbage, or it may end up being amazing, but in the end it is going to be the pilot that makes or breaks the mech not these quirks that are little more than a distraction.

How can you look at Tbolts, especially the 5SS and say the quirks are 'little more than a distraction'? And I KNOW you are not saying 'all mechs are equal and it is only pilot skill that matters' because that just ain't true either.

Alwrath, on 22 September 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Back in the day when they first came out they were actually good mechs, before the clan invasion. I was running the 5-SS with 2 large lasers and the rest medium lasers and got good matches in it.

A lot of my mechs seemed much better before the Clan invasion. The Ilya Muromets for example.

[xXBagheeraXx]

GeneralArmchair, on 22 September 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

@bagheera
How exactly does the black knight scream "pop tart" when none of its variants have jump jets? How does that even work?

WAIT THEY DONT???!! I could have sworn.....

*looks again*

What the fk actual? I thought these things where known for jumping....And thats not even a throwback to MW4. I thought they could jump in the actual storyline....

That just killed the mauler pack for me....I dont want that pos and a light mech I will never drive...the light mech was bad enough. And i was on the fence about the mauler (still am) probably just gonna get the crab now.....Talk about your DOA...

[xXBagheeraXx]

And now that im looking at it carefully only one crab jumps.....WELP....guess ill just be getting a cauldron born then.....Saves me some dosh. LOL

[WarHippy]

GeneralArmchair, on 22 September 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Focus on the mech itself? You mean how it is a towering target, has low mounted weapons, and no redeemable traits like jump jets or ECM? Ignore the quirks and look at the mech like that?

Yes, in part. You also need to see how it handles in general, and if you can make it fit your play style. It may not be optimal, but it isn't necessarily bad either.

Davers, on 22 September 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

How can you look at Tbolts, especially the 5SS and say the quirks are 'little more than a distraction'? And I KNOW you are not saying 'all mechs are equal and it is only pilot skill that matters' because that just ain't true either.

Well if you read that part about quirks being a distraction within the context or the rest of that paragraph you might realize I was talking about the Black Knight and its quirks not all quirks period. If you really want to boil down my overall point in this thread it is that you need to at least try the mech out first and see how it goes instead of looking at numbers on a page and getting all bent out of shape. Personal preference and skill do play a factor and sometimes just as much as the quirks if not more so.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Without quirks these things are just basically going to be oversized thunderbolts....without the duration quirks or the heat reduction quirks. They Might do well. I think with 75 tons and endo you could pack on around 3 large pulses and a few medium lasers but its going to be pretty dam hot. The only reason these may do well in your average guys hands is because of the nature of the game and how much laser barf rules at the moment. Not sure what dope I was on that made me think those got jumpets. I must miss Mw4 more than I think....

The only other IS heavies we have atm that have that kind of tonnage to throw around and are energy heavy are grasshoppers, and they are the size of an atlas....I rarely see those do very well. Hell i rarely even SEE them now...

[Helsbane]

Want it to change? Get a refund on the order. Hit them where is hurts the most and it will get their attention.

[Davers]

WarHippy, on 22 September 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Yes, in part. You also need to see how it handles in general, and if you can make it fit your play style. It may not be optimal, but it isn't necessarily bad either.
Well if you read that part about quirks being a distraction within the context or the rest of that paragraph you might realize I was talking about the Black Knight and its quirks not all quirks period. If you really want to boil down my overall point in this thread it is that you need to at least try the mech out first and see how it goes instead of looking at numbers on a page and getting all bent out of shape. Personal preference and skill do play a factor and sometimes just as much as the quirks if not more so.

Well, some people thought the Shadowhawk was DOA too. Maybe it has some advantages that aren't apparent.

It just seems that PGI has stopped giving out "good" quirks on new mechs, while keeping the "good" quirks on mechs that are already in game.

PGI needs to step up the pace on their whole rebalance.

[pbiggz]

even if the BK got good quirks they're getting ready to flush all the weapon quirks anyway, it'd be good for what, a month?

Either way it's stupid. Seems like someone (paul) can't even be bothered to make mechs good anymore, they always have to be next to useless (unless they are clan heavies - summoner/ scarecrow/ artic cheetah).

Im not saying those mechs shouldn't be good, im saying that IS mechs should be just AS good.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I already refunded mine when they Mauled my madcat with 18% duration nerfs. I was waiting till my next check to buy it back after they dialed it down but...now I honestly dont really like the look of all the mechs. I thought most of the crabs where jump capable. its got decent tonnage, energy heavy and XL friendly. Winning combo but....3 walkers for 1 jumper? NTY. I dont do lights. and I was always a very bad thunderbolt driver, even after the qurikening. The only energy mechs I do well in are assault classes with at least 19 to 20+ doubles behind all those weapons and a fairly sizable engine filled with sinks. I'd just cook that black knight in seconds.

I was never good with Dakka builds. Staring gets you killed, so maulers arent really looking too hot for me. not when i can hop in my gauss crab and bring the pain at long or short range, and if I bought my 3rd crab back I could make a dakka build as good as if not better than any mauler you could field....

It can dual gauss better than any mauler you could make as well, since the gauss is in the arms and not in the torso where you get critted and lose half your mech. Only thing that remotely makes me want a mauler is MW4 nostalgia...she was my favorite mech to salvage....2 clan gauss rifles a few er mediums and a clan LRM20....good stuff <3

[Davers]

pbiggz, on 22 September 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

even if the BK got good quirks they're getting ready to flush all the weapon quirks anyway, it'd be good for what, a month?

LOL OMG, wouldn't that be great if that was true, instead of 6 months to a year between balance passes?