717 replies to this topic

[Thumper3]

MadcatX, on 20 June 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

People look at the minimap in the heat of combat?

Usually I just stick with using my eyes and a bit of battlefield awareness since the advent of ECM made relying on both the minimap or the dorito a crutch.

I constantly use the mini-map in combat, it's no crutch anymore than using a giant fighting mech instead of your bare hands is a crutch. LOL

It's a technological advantage and trust me, mastering using it while piloting is key to winning the battle.

I'll wait to see the new mini-map in action, but I'm not sure if people are playing on 20" monitors or what but I doubt it's going to be so small as to be useless as so many are wringing their hands about. You don't need to see your enemy picking their nose in the cockpit on the mini-map, you NEED to for broad battlefield awareness which this gives. It's going to make tracking interment contact with PUGs who have mastered using "R" but not a microphone so much better. Instead of getting a BEEP and seeing a flash of a red dot on my compass for half a second I'll have registered the location of the enemy blip precisely on the mini-map with my peripheral vision monitoring it.

Now, I personally would have preferred maybe a toggle to hybrid the BattleMap so that it could be projected on your cockpit window with translucence so you could see through it. Best of both worlds, but no biggie that they didn't go that route.

In honesty, this is a small QOL feature, nothing game making or breaking and it always amazes me how worked up people get around here.

"Screw PGI, they changed the MINIMAP!!! I'm quitting, the whole game is ruined, BAH!!!!!'

AssaultPig, on 20 June 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

the function of the minimap is to tell you about the circumstances immediately around you; where nearby friendlies/enemies are, a close zoom of the terrain shape, etc. Putting the whole map image there would eliminate most of the utility of it even if it didn't look like putting more than 2-3 mechs in a square made them into an unreadable blob.

like, in a close engagement, I don't need to see what the random clownshoes five squares away is getting up to. I need a readable map of nearby units.

LMAO Clownshoes, love it. Perhaps you SHOULD care about what is going on 5 squares away, since that battle will decide what happens to you shortly thereafter.

And the function of the mini-map is to give you an overview of the battlefield, the Mk1 eyeball gives you what you need of the immediate surroundings. In a close engagement the targeting info you need is in your HUD. In truth I have always been frustrated by the extreme limits of the mini-map. It's always needed to be bigger IMHO.

Edited by Thumper3, 20 June 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[razenWing]

Thumper3, on 20 June 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

I constantly use the mini-map in combat, it's no crutch anymore than using a giant fighting mech instead of your bare hands is a crutch. LOL

It's a technological advantage and trust me, mastering using it while piloting is key to winning the battle.

I'll wait to see the new mini-map in action, but I'm not sure if people are playing on 20" monitors or what but I doubt it's going to be so small as to be useless as so many are wringing their hands about. You don't need to see your enemy picking their nose in the cockpit on the mini-map, you NEED to for broad battlefield awareness which this gives. It's going to make tracking interment contact with PUGs who have mastered using "R" but not a microphone so much better. Instead of getting a BEEP and seeing a flash of a red dot on my compass for half a second I'll have registered the location of the enemy blip precisely on the mini-map with my peripheral vision monitoring it.

Now, I personally would have preferred maybe a toggle to hybrid the BattleMap so that it could be projected on your cockpit window with translucence so you could see through it. Best of both worlds, but no biggie that they didn't go that route.

In honesty, this is a small QOL feature, nothing game making or breaking and it always amazes me how worked up people get around here.

"Screw PGI, they changed the MINIMAP!!! I'm quitting, the whole game is ruined, BAH!!!!!'




LMAO Clownshoes, love it. Perhaps you SHOULD care about what is going on 5 squares away, since that battle will decide what happens to you shortly thereafter.

And the function of the mini-map is to give you an overview of the battlefield, the Mk1 eyeball gives you what you need of the immediate surroundings. In a close engagement the targeting info you need is in your HUD. In truth I have always been frustrated by the extreme limits of the mini-map. It's always needed to be bigger IMHO.

Press 'b' if you wanna be a commander.

Gid gud.

The whole point of minimap is NOT a map. It's supposed to be RADAR. As I posted like 10 posts ago, if you don't know the difference between a MAP and a RADAR, then there's really no point arguing with you.

Note how in a RADAR situation, you are always centered? Noticed how there's a definitive range, as in, your radar field don't get bigger just because you are on Polar Highlands vs the Mining Collective?

So I repeat, if you can't tell the difference between the two, please don't join the conversation, there's simply no point talking to you.

edit: if I can also add... in the entire 15+ years of mechwarrior game series, that little screen has NEVER been anything but a radar, and there's a reason why that is, instead of a map.

PS. look around to almost all games, it's the same concept. from CoD, Tomb Raider, Assassin's Creed, to Witcher, WHATEVER the genre from First Person to RPG, it's always a "self centered" detection "map" as main, and you use a real MAP as secondary. Why? Because it makes sense not to JAM everything in one small space. It's called prioritizing information.

PS you do this in real life too. Do you drive with the full google map viewing distance of 200 miles from point A to B? Or do you drive with your car in the center of the "map" with maybe a 500 meter range so that you can see the streets coming up?

(On the zoomable, if we zoom in, does that mean we have to constantly shift our view as we move? God damn, more stupidity the more I think about it... sigh...)

Edited by razenWing, 20 June 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[Volthorne]

So we've had a 6 page thread discussing the new minimap.... and literally no one has brought up the point about multiple 'Mechs stacking into special symbols, not even Alistair (and you wrote the cliff notes for the town hall, shame on you!)?

There are so many things I want to say about how ridiculous this situation - and all of you - is, but I won't because once I start it would snowball really fast.

Edited by Volthorne, 20 June 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

razenWing, on 20 June 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

Press 'b' if you wanna be a commander.

Gid gud.

The whole point of minimap is NOT a map. It's supposed to be RADAR. As I posted like 10 posts ago, if you don't know the difference between a MAP and a RADAR, then there's really no point arguing with you.

Note how in a RADAR situation, you are always centered? Noticed how there's a definitive range, as in, your radar field don't get bigger just because you are on Polar Highlands vs the Mining Collective?

So I repeat, if you can't tell the difference between the two, please don't join the conversation, there's simply no point to talk to you.

Hmmm... and here this whole time I thought a minimap was a map. I mean, I just assumed with the word "map" being modified by the word "mini" that "minimap" would just mean "small map." But rethinking it now, perhaps "minimap" is actually Swahili for "radar." I'll have to google it.

[Egg Fu]

Thumper3, on 20 June 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

I constantly use the mini-map in combat, it's no crutch anymore than using a giant fighting mech instead of your bare hands is a crutch. LOL

It's a technological advantage and trust me, mastering using it while piloting is key to winning the battle.

I'll wait to see the new mini-map in action, but I'm not sure if people are playing on 20" monitors or what but I doubt it's going to be so small as to be useless as so many are wringing their hands about. You don't need to see your enemy picking their nose in the cockpit on the mini-map, you NEED to for broad battlefield awareness which this gives. It's going to make tracking interment contact with PUGs who have mastered using "R" but not a microphone so much better. Instead of getting a BEEP and seeing a flash of a red dot on my compass for half a second I'll have registered the location of the enemy blip precisely on the mini-map with my peripheral vision monitoring it.

Now, I personally would have preferred maybe a toggle to hybrid the BattleMap so that it could be projected on your cockpit window with translucence so you could see through it. Best of both worlds, but no biggie that they didn't go that route.

In honesty, this is a small QOL feature, nothing game making or breaking and it always amazes me how worked up people get around here.

"Screw PGI, they changed the MINIMAP!!! I'm quitting, the whole game is ruined, BAH!!!!!'




LMAO Clownshoes, love it. Perhaps you SHOULD care about what is going on 5 squares away, since that battle will decide what happens to you shortly thereafter.

And the function of the mini-map is to give you an overview of the battlefield, the Mk1 eyeball gives you what you need of the immediate surroundings. In a close engagement the targeting info you need is in your HUD. In truth I have always been frustrated by the extreme limits of the mini-map. It's always needed to be bigger IMHO.

Your post fringes on the the ambiguous. Wow

[razenWing]

ScarecrowES, on 20 June 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

Hmmm... and here this whole time I thought a minimap was a map. I mean, I just assumed with the word "map" being modified by the word "mini" that "minimap" would just mean "small map." But rethinking it now, perhaps "minimap" is actually Swahili for "radar." I'll have to google it.

We can argue over vocab all day long. mini-radar... hows that? the point is, it's not supposed to be a map, that 4x4 square is supposed to act like a radar. so call it location pointy bear claw two roger if you want.

Edited by razenWing, 20 June 2016 - 03:02 PM.

[Egg Fu]

ScarecrowES, on 20 June 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

Hmmm... and here this whole time I thought a minimap was a map. I mean, I just assumed with the word "map" being modified by the word "mini" that "minimap" would just mean "small map." But rethinking it now, perhaps "minimap" is actually Swahili for "radar." I'll have to google it.

The gaming term 'mini map' has always been a bit of a misnomer. In most games it has usually been more so a sort of radar at least in effect as it's centered around the player. Surely you know better.

[MrJeffers]

Volthorne, on 20 June 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

So we've had a 6 page thread discussing the new minimap.... and literally no one has brought up the point about multiple 'Mechs stacking into special symbols, not even Alistair (and you wrote the cliff notes for the town hall, shame on you!)?

There are so many things I want to say about how ridiculous this situation - and all of you - is, but I won't because once I start it would snowball really fast.

I did mention the icon stacking in post # 62, or page 4 with the default settings...

[ScarecrowES]

Egg Fu, on 20 June 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

The gaming term 'mini map' has always been a bit of a misnomer. In most games it has usually been more so a sort of radar at least in effect as it's centered around the player. Surely you know better.

Perhaps... and though I'm largely being facetious about the symantics of minimap-dom, it's probably not beyond argument that for the purposes of MWO it's definitely a map. Like, a mini map.

[Egg Fu]

ScarecrowES, on 20 June 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Perhaps... and though I'm largely being facetious about the symantics of minimap-dom, it's probably not beyond argument that for the purposes of MWO it's definitely a map. Like, a mini map.

Well in its latest iteration it indeed truly is a mini map now. I, however, don't want to lose my radar and hope we get it back sooner than later.

[Red Shrike]

Why not a minimap/radar like this then? I'm all for it.

Edited by Red Shrike, 20 June 2016 - 04:15 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Meh. I don't see why people are acting all crazy.

Russ said they would work on a zoom feature next, and this zoom feature will probably be implemented July or August. Yeah, they could have delayed releasing the new minimap, but remember that the new minimap is connected with the new command wheel. (And apparently, both these things are connected with the upcoming Infotech stuff, but I'll take that with a grain of salt)

I am seriously sick of PGI screwing up **** and promising to fix it "SOON". That what happened with UI 2.0 and that was bad enough for me to quit MWO for 3 months. This map is seriously useless and will be completely ineffective once it's covered in all those fancy new comma rose icons. Good thing Witcher 3 just released expansions because it's goodbye MWO at least until they fix the MINI map. Don't even get me started on the rescale and bigger lights, smaller Stalkers....

Just when you think PGI couldn't get any worse. Fool me once, shame on PGI, fool me twice... eh get stuffed PGI and let someone competent take over design...

[Troutmonkey]

Jables McBarty, on 20 June 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

And sometimes, I can set throttle to 100%, open the BG, and maintain 100%. And sometimes I do that and I stop moving. It's inconsistent and during various patches I have tried to record 'mech/map combos where it works and doesn't and submit that to support.

Hit reverse, go 1% reverse speed or more. Then go forward. Fixed for the rest of the match. Stupid PGI coders could properly fix this or even butcher a fix that does reverse for you, but I suspect PGI doesn't even have any devs anymore...

[Jables McBarty]

Troutmonkey, on 20 June 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

Hit reverse, go 1% reverse speed or more. Then go forward. Fixed for the rest of the match. Stupid PGI coders could properly fix this or even butcher a fix that does reverse for you, but I suspect PGI doesn't even have any devs anymore...

Thanks! That probably explains the inconsistency--depends on whether or not I've reversed.

[Remover of Obstacles]

I wonder what the feedback was from the testers of the minimap changes....

[Troutmonkey]

Jables McBarty, on 20 June 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

Thanks! That probably explains the inconsistency--depends on whether or not I've reversed.

Sometimes cruise control just works, and sometimes it just doesn't. This seems to work in the cases where it doesn't

[WarZ]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Meh. I don't see why people are acting all crazy.

Russ said they would work on a zoom feature next, and this zoom feature will probably be implemented July or August. Yeah, they could have delayed releasing the new minimap, but remember that the new minimap is connected with the new command wheel. (And apparently, both these things are connected with the upcoming Infotech stuff, but I'll take that with a grain of salt)

Minimap will be hard to read for a month, but the tradeoff will probably be better communication and teamwork in the solo queue. And then we get a zoom feature later. Mind you, the ability to zoom in and out on the minimap is something people have been requesting since 2012, on account of previous MW games having this feature. And now we're getting it. Which is a good thing.

I think the people are missing the forest for the trees on this one.

As much as I get annoyed with development and issues with this game ... you are correct in this matter. And once zoom is in, it won't be all that bad.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Probably brought up before but I'm gonna echo the same sentiment...why not do BOTH?
More than enough space below the Score/timer window in the cockpit to do so.
I know I rely on the mini-map in its current incarnation quite heavily...mostly to either circle/surprise an opponent OR to read the flow of a battle and put my mech where it'd be most useful.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Red Shrike, on 20 June 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Why not a minimap/radar like this then? I'm all for it.

Mmmm, MW4. As terrible as it looks, it is fun.

And that mission is a *****.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 20 June 2016 - 07:42 PM.

[BigBenn]

This too shall pass.

The patch has not been released yet and already people know "it sucks". Same goes for you teary-eyed folk that had the size of their favorite mech corrected.

Some of you seriously need to relax, download the new patch, and test it. Give it time. Heaven forbid if you have to adjust or learn a few new things.

I'm actually looking forward to the more inclusive HUD map, I think the features will go a long way to improving the experience.