68 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

karrade85, on 21 September 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

Thanks for the advice:) 81km for a heavy?! wow trial mechs don't teach you that lol. Okay so heavy's aren't out of the question for a LRM then I guess? I just didn't want to be the guy is so immobile that he drags down his team with a useless LRM that can't maneuver into position but that would seem to not be the case if you can move that fast! I'll have to look into some builds for heavy's then too.

I'm not opposed to spending some real cash to help speed along my purchasing a couple mechs, nothing crazy you understand but maybe a heavy with 2 variants or a stormcrow with 2 variants just so I can work on getting elite worked up? I don’t plan on buying many more mechs though, I’m the kind of guy that likes to specialize. I rather be really good at one thing then just treading water on 6 different mechs setups.



I’ve also been told about modules which I don’t completely understand. Target decay, Radar Deprivation, Seismic Sensor are all modules that were recommended for me to shoot for as well. I have yet to really play around with the mech lab enough to know what I’m doing so that’ll be my next project when I have some time. From what I’ve gathered though modules are a last priority.

There are actually LRM roles for all weight classes.

Generally, these are the typical roles per weight class:

Lights - Harasser

Mediums - Skirmisher

Heavy - suppression, and light artillery

Assault - (BLR-1S stands out as one of the very best assault LRM mechs) - Artillery, minimum salvo size is 45 missiles

[karrade85]

Just an update guys:)

Played with some load outs SCR-A I think it is? Getting a better hang of the mech lab now which helps a lot in understanding ranges, cool downs, dmg, etc...

So I find myself now at a cross roads, I seem to have a lot more success with LRM's in general however I played with streak launchers as well and that wasn't to bad either. Once I get an idea of the setup I created I usually float around or above the 200 dmg mark with some games doing way better and a few getting hammered but the ones I get hammered on have more to do with poor team work. That being said getting a kill or even 6 assists is fun.

I'm curious now on a couple things about missile warfare in general. Why is it when in general chat most people look down on it? I keep hearing people say that it's to ineficent or wasted dmg and that once I hit community warfare it will be of little use?

You have streak missiles for example, I liked these. I admit I'm unsure on how competitive they are with other weapon types but the lock on feature allowed me to alpha walls of missiles at people and I thought the damage they dealt wasn't bad. I do think that it be better to chain fire them though but I haven't quite figured out how to set that up.

Anyways my success with LRM's varies greatly, literally doing 550 dmg with 1 kill and 5 assists to the next match getting 80 dmg. It's hard to say if this is more a lack of teamwork thing though. No offense but I find many lacking brains when it comes to strategy, for example....

If your a medium or light mech why the hell would you give up that great reconing speed advantage and slowly follow the assault mech when you start on the map? seriously it's like everyone doesn't want to be up front so they mill around in a directionless ball!

It's very frustrating I find myself going into a lead role just to get the team moving which is why my LRM boat doesn't do as well some matches. I should really never be out front but when the stupid light mechs cluster behind me what do you do? sigh...

Anyways I look forward to getting a headset and eventually some sort of team warfare because this lone wolf furball that seems to happen in matchmaking half the time is disheartening.

Edited by karrade85, 22 September 2015 - 08:15 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

karrade85, on 22 September 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

Just an update guys:)

Played with some load outs SCR-A I think it is? Getting a better hang of the mech lab now which helps a lot in understanding ranges, cool downs, dmg, etc...

So I find myself now at a cross roads, I seem to have a lot more success with LRM's in general however I played with streak launchers as well and that wasn't to bad either. Once I get an idea of the setup I created I usually float around or above the 200 dmg mark with some games doing way better and a few getting hammered but the ones I get hammered on have more to do with poor team work. That being said getting a kill or even 6 assists is fun.

I'm curious now on a couple things about missile warfare in general. Why is it when in general chat most people look down on it? I keep hearing people say that it's to ineficent or wasted dmg and that once I hit community warfare it will be of little use?

You have streak missiles for example, I liked these. I admit I'm unsure on how competitive they are with other weapon types but the lock on feature allowed me to alpha walls of missiles at people and I thought the damage they dealt wasn't bad. I do think that it be better to chain fire them though but I haven't quite figured out how to set that up.

Anyways my success with LRM's varies greatly, literally doing 550 dmg with 1 kill and 5 assists to the next match getting 80 dmg. It's hard to say if this is more a lack of teamwork thing though. No offense but I find many lacking brains when it comes to strategy, for example....

If your a medium or light mech why the hell would you give up that great reconing speed advantage and slowly follow the assault mech when you start on the map? seriously it's like everyone doesn't want to be up front so they mill around in a directionless ball!

It's very frustrating I find myself going into a lead role just to get the team moving which is why my LRM boat doesn't do as well some matches. I should really never be out front but when the stupid light mechs cluster behind me what do you do? sigh...

Anyways I look forward to getting a headset and eventually some sort of team warfare because this lone wolf furball that seems to happen in matchmaking half the time is disheartening.

When you fire 2 LRM15s (after investing the tonnage into the launchers, and the many tons of ammo you will need) you are dealing about 30 damage with that salvo. That 30 damage will take about 5 seconds flight time to get to me, and it will splash all over the 8 sections of my mech, and the ground. In return, I will fire my dual gauss, dealing 30 damage to one section, at near instant speed.

Not to mention that ECM, and good terrain cover, can nullify your salvo.

LRMs are currently the most binary weapon in the game, and that's in part due to the fact that they rely more on the stupidity of the target, than the skill of their user. Don't get me wrong, skill matters, but honestly, if you are facing a team of idiots, you can pull every mistake in the book, and still trounce them with LRMs.

It's a weapon system that works rather well in the lower tiers, but in higher level play tends to suffer, since up there everyone brings ECM, AMS, and knows how to use cover properly.

You also have to deal with the brain dead idiots who think that the only way to play is direct fire weapons, and you both stand facing one another and shoot out like it's a gun duel in the wild west.

People may look down on LRM players because you're not on the front lines getting hit, like they are. To those, I say "GG, you almost won, if only you used tactics."


EDIT: As far as light mechs following assaults. It's because assault mechs are very slow, and many light mechs can cover them with ECM, until they can get to the front line. Plus, the best defense against a light rush, is light mechs. We baby sit the assaults, scout the enemy team, harass their flanks, and cover the team with ECM. While everyone else tries to find a target to hit.


EDIT2: To set up chain fire, have a weapon group where you alpha all your missiles, and then assign all your missiles to another weapon as well, and while having that weapon group selected, press "Backspace" to toggle chain fire on that group. Now you can alpha with group 1, and chain fire with group 2.

Also, streak boats, like the streakcrow (derisively known as skill crow), are common, and very useful. Especially in CW when dealing with light mechs.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 22 September 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[karrade85]

Thanks walker, yes I've spent my nights (while at work) when I cant play reading up on tactics and bouncing around the forums. So I understand light mechs importance in playing a rear guard, just seems like many mediums (your skirmish guys) don't wanna be the first to skirmish so some games there's a big waste of time sitting instead of maybe setting up a good defensive line out ahead.

Anyhow I'm really curios to play with a heavy now with an LRM or streak boat platform. Clan still of course for the mech so I'll look at the ala carte options I thinks, any suggestions?

[no one]

LRMs are countered fairly easily, so it's important to watch your missiles and position well. I don't consider them a primary armament, but as low heat suppression weapons they're tough to beat. Just set your LRMs in their own firing bracket and use them at mid range. (250-600 m usually)

Here's a Crow build that's fairly easy to manage, and gives you a good mix of ranged firepower:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6c2a1921d93d22e

Edited by no one, 22 September 2015 - 10:10 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

karrade85, on 22 September 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Anyhow I'm really curios to play with a heavy now with an LRM or streak boat platform. Clan still of course for the mech so I'll look at the ala carte options I thinks, any suggestions?

Again, EBJ FTW! HBR is same weight, also lacks JJs, but adds ECM. Bummer, though, not the greatest missile hardpoints out there. (Does it not look like a Clan omni Warhammer, though? Or am I just losing my marbles?)

EBJ has great omnipod options and hardpoints. For a hybrid LRM EBJ, allow me to make a humble recommendation. This gets a respectable 30 Artemis LRMs out per volley, while maintaining an also-respectable 40-ish point laser alpha, with a real reach-out-and-touch-someone direct-fire primary. You can also drop a ton of ammo and the TCompI to swap the ERLL to a LPL, though it's a tad hotter. Less range, more sizzle. Still an 81.0 km/h (89.1 after Speed Tweak), low-profile Clan heavy. Shield with the right side, as the extra laser is on the left. Another possible take on it steps up to Artemis LRM20s, drops the big laser for another ERML, and is a little more heat-efficient. Not much, but it'll survive. Either mech can hold down the LRMs until they're empty, and not worry about heat at all. When it comes to lazorz time, though, you're back to worrying about cooldown times. At mid range, you can alpha the latter at least twice for a fairly ridiculous (for a 65-ton mech) damage number.

Also remember, that front-loading the armor balance is a given nowadays. Two years ago, it was about a 2.2:1 or 2.5:1 F:R armor ratio on the torsos. Now, it's more like 8:1 or higher on most heavy and assault mechs. Not a lot of backstabbing going on, it seems. Shame. One lucky turn of RNGesus on critical hits, and you can one-shot most mechs with the 5x SPL ACH. But that's another story entirely...

EBJ a la carte isn't a bad call, but you'd just as well bump up a few more bucks and grab the whole Cauldron Born package, complete with the ACH (hottest light mech in the game, I think) and the SHC (underrated medium, great for long-range harassing with cERLLs or LRMs). EBJ is maybe the #2 or #3 heavy mech overall in the game. It's JUST that doggone good.

They also run 11-12 million C-Bills each, so there's that. If you're dead-set on spending cash money on it, though, grab the EBJ-C from the gift shop for $21 USD (I think?) and grind up C-Bills for the other variants.The -C has the 4 missile hard points, as well as ballistics in the arms. Interesting possibilities...

[IraqiWalker]

karrade85, on 22 September 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Thanks walker, yes I've spent my nights (while at work) when I cant play reading up on tactics and bouncing around the forums. So I understand light mechs importance in playing a rear guard, just seems like many mediums (your skirmish guys) don't wanna be the first to skirmish so some games there's a big waste of time sitting instead of maybe setting up a good defensive line out ahead.

Anyhow I'm really curios to play with a heavy now with an LRM or streak boat platform. Clan still of course for the mech so I'll look at the ala carte options I thinks, any suggestions?

In that case, I recommend that you take charge with voice chat, and help organize your team properly. Remember, you're in the solo queue, where it's basically 12 strangers standing next to one another, trying to work as a team, while NOT communicating. When you do communicate, your team instantly gains a massive advantage.

As for LRM recommendations, I'd say the EBJ, or the Timberwolf. because they can have 4 missile hardpoints, and on a heavy mech, you really want a minimum of 40 missiles per salvo. If you want a dedicated LRM mech. Or you can go down to 30 ish missiles, but load up on lots of secondary weapons.
(I remember seeing a 4xLRM 20 EBJ at one point in time. You laugh at that build, until you realize it's caustic valley, and you have ZERO cover against it, while the shower of blue death descends all over your face)

Tinker in Smurfy with the Clan heavies, and see which ones have the better builds for you. Rabbi has a couple of solid suggestions for the EBJ (I personally recommend running a minimum of 3xLRM 15s. If you want to use Artemis, then you can afford to reduce the salvo size a bit. Although 3xALRM15s + Probe + 9 tons of ammo (1620 missiles) still leaves you 5 or so tons free.)

TheRAbbi, on 22 September 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

(Does it not look like a Clan omni Warhammer, though? Or am I just losing my marbles?)

We all see it as the Warhammer Rabbi. Your marbles are mostly fine in that regard.

[Bigbacon]

One thing to try is don't take all LRMs depending on how many hardpoints you have. Drop one launcher and add Narc and then as you play, start Narc'ing target for yourself to fire at. You need to play a close support LRM role though to really do this well but you won't have to rely 100% then on your fellow teammates for locks. Look for mechs at the end of the line OR ECM carrying mechs since narc will disable their ECM.

Listen to the rage as rain down on them since most people still don't seem to notice that they are Narc'd even though the game tells them now.

and also. NEVER take just LRMs...ALWAYS have at least 2 lasers to fall back on. MLs are low ton, good damage weapons. never leave home without them.

Edited by Bigbacon, 23 September 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Tesunie]

Bigbacon, on 23 September 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

One thing to try is don't take all LRMs depending on how many hardpoints you have. Drop one launcher and add Narc and then as you play, start Narc'ing target for yourself to fire at. You need to play a close support LRM role though to really do this well but you won't have to rely 100% then on your fellow teammates for locks. Look for mechs at the end of the line OR ECM carrying mechs since narc will disable their ECM.

Listen to the rage as rain down on them since most people still don't seem to notice that they are Narc'd even though the game tells them now.

and also. NEVER take just LRMs...ALWAYS have at least 2 lasers to fall back on. MLs are low ton, good damage weapons. never leave home without them.

NARCing your own targets is not usually helpful unless you are fast enough to be able to gain the distance to use it afterwards. But, the tactic does work, as my Raven 3L tends to do it to moderately good affect.

As far as lasers, always bring some kind of back up weapons. It's worth losing a couple of tons of ammo from my experience. (I tend to run at least 4 med lasers... but that's just me and my comfort level.) I also like to mix SSRMs with my LRMs (with a couple lasers too usually), as if I have Artemis on it, it affects the SSRMs basically for free. (I like weapon synergy. Like a PPC and AC5 combo. Or TAG and LLs.)

[Bigbacon]

Tesunie, on 23 September 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

NARCing your own targets is not usually helpful unless you are fast enough to be able to gain the distance to use it afterwards. But, the tactic does work, as my Raven 3L tends to do it to moderately good affect.

As far as lasers, always bring some kind of back up weapons. It's worth losing a couple of tons of ammo from my experience. (I tend to run at least 4 med lasers... but that's just me and my comfort level.) I also like to mix SSRMs with my LRMs (with a couple lasers too usually), as if I have Artemis on it, it affects the SSRMs basically for free. (I like weapon synergy. Like a PPC and AC5 combo. Or TAG and LLs.)

I do it ALL the time with my goldenboy or mad dog. you don't need to be fast, you just need to be with teammates. you can't be off alone. You have to play close support to use it well. Yea it doesn't always work, especially if the enemy team is ECM heavy but I like knowing I don't need to rely completely on teammates to hold a target.

[Tesunie]

Bigbacon, on 23 September 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

I do it ALL the time with my goldenboy or mad dog. you don't need to be fast, you just need to be with teammates. you can't be off alone. You have to play close support to use it well. Yea it doesn't always work, especially if the enemy team is ECM heavy but I like knowing I don't need to rely completely on teammates to hold a target.

Key word: Usually.
And a Mad Dog and Goldenboy are each relatively fast. I get it to work on my Raven 3L and one of the Phracts (4x?). It's always nice when it works as intended.

[karrade85]

Another update just to show you guys really have helped me improve a lot:)

This is from a build site you guys had suggested. I ended up using a mad dog and find I prefer it over the scrow. Has a good speed although the hit boxes aren't as forgiving but with more missile hard points than you can use and some extra torso armor I find I survive better to get my narc tags on. using 5 lrm 10 with artemis with plenty of ammo.

Mech'

Match Played/Wins/Losses/Ratio/Kills/Deaths/Ratio/DamageDone/XPEarned/Time

8 5 3 1.67 5 3 1.67 2,431 5,998 01:04:23


That's a 303 damage average per match with a 1.67 K/D ratio and to be honest It's really better than that because the I'm still been learning an adjusting the build.

obviously some maps offer me a great advantage over others but even in the buildings of the river city I was doing ok. I find that chain firing is useful at times however sometimes you wanna poke out and alpha the F**** out of someone. That's a lot of alpha, you have to manage your overheating but to be honest it's working very well for me. Mostly pick you targets and don't just pickup random locks, I prefer to hit those nice juicy assaults as they tend to move slow but sometimes I'll adjust targets to help friendly's or keep the skirmish line from moving towards you. Funny how 2 quick alpha's of my LRM's tend to make people duck back into cover:)

When I get some time this weekend I'll try to get a headset and hit you guys up for some matches if anyones interested? Gotta say was worried at first but I think I'm gonna have fun playing a nice niche in this game.


PS: still working out how to improve targeting more. Yes I already use the clan active sensor probe.

[Tesunie]

karrade85, on 23 September 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

That's a 303 damage average per match with a 1.67 K/D ratio and to be honest It's really better than that because the I'm still been learning an adjusting the build.

karrade85, on 23 September 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

with a 1.67 K/D ratio

Just want to you know... I hate you... (My K/D is 0.85.)

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Tesunie, on 23 September 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

Just want to you know... I hate you... (My K/D is 0.85.)

Ditto. And that's up from around 0.5 before the last stats wipe. Ah, the folly of learning on light mechs...

@karrade85: You're doing pretty f***ing well then, so keep improving at whatever it is you're already doing well!. Catch me Saturday night or Sunday, and I'll be happy to dust off the old ACH spotter mech to go find you some targets to buff that KDR. I run one with ECM, cERLL, cNARC, cTAG. Or some slight variation thereof that maintains one of the two spotting weapons and the ERLL. Along with an ASR and info gathering module (1 of each), it does really well at directing the rain.

Holla, homie...

[IraqiWalker]

Tesunie, on 23 September 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

Just want to you know... I hate you... (My K/D is 0.85.)

In all fairness, you have like 8 bajillion matches for your K/D to drop down a bit.

However, Karrade, your progress is fantastic.

[karrade85]

Sorry had a posting error so first paragraph has some rehasshing of info in my last post

With some practice and forum reading I find that alpha strikes are great for those quick strikes on a lumbering assault or heavy mech (my favorite targets). You can pop off 2 alphas or 3 if you’re willing to take a shutdown which to be honest behind the cover I can launch from doesn’t hurt me. While people can be smart and use ECM and cover that can’t block everything. Plain fact is they need to shoot at us which means they have to become exposed to my locks so toss in the fact that good cover close by tends to vary on maps and eat my ALPHA. It might be only a shot or 2 but seeing as it’s a big alpha that’s sometimes all you need, I’ll let the marksman in the skirmish line rack up the kills with heavily weakened targets, no sense in being greedy right?

Of course I can’t just target random pop ups from the rear all day, I’m a heavy mech after all so at times I’ll run some distraction on the skirmish line while tagging with a few narcs (since I’m there). It’s not that I want to take hits or mix it up close range, far from it. However I find it really helps the skirmishers at times by giving them targets that aren’t focusing on them for once, especially the medium mechs that lack the hit points I have. Then after a little foray in the front lines I’ll pop back a little and benefit from a well-placed narc tag.

Also if I have to target a light mech I find chain fire works best. If I had to guess it’s because of chance and human error that allows missiles like this to even work on the fast little buggers. Obviously they can run to shelter or away pretty quickly however sometimes they get caught up in their own lines giving the chance for my missiles to hit.

Question on my madog setup or I guess LRM in general. Are any of the targeting computers worth the tonnage for me?

Edited by karrade85, 24 September 2015 - 12:07 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

karrade85, on 24 September 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

Question on my madog setup or I guess LRM in general. Are any of the targeting computers worth the tonnage for me?

No! They offer NO bonuses to missiles. The only things that help your missiles are Active Probe, TAG, NARC, Artemis, Target Decay module, and Target Information Gathering module.

[karrade85]

So then other than maybe tweaking my build a little for real improvment I'll have to work on getting the modules and mastery? Which means I need to work on 1 prime mech and 2 other variations of the mad dog?

At least that's the jist of it from what I understand the whole experince thing for skills is odd to me.

if I combine parts of the mechs together which mech does the exp count towards?
Say I have torso prime but left and right torso are the A varient.


update: I'm becoming obessed with gathering more information on this lol.
Ok so I've figured out my first question but the 2nd still stands. If I combine mech parts who gets the XP?

Also I have to keep in mind that as much as I hope to maintian such a KD ratio it could be that high due to some some good fortune. Let's face it 8 matches isn't a huge base line. I do have to stick around team and rely on inclose protection as the build has no lasers so a light mech could spell trouble for me. I wanted to fit in lasers but at this point it would mean losing a launcher as ammo is were it needs to be. I could play with droping the armor but that seems kinda risky.

Edited by karrade85, 24 September 2015 - 12:50 AM.

[Tesunie]

With clan mechs, experience is always assigned to the CT omnipod type (as that one can't be changed out).

Yes. You will have to buy 2 other Mad Dog variants to be able to elite and then master them. However, being Omni/clan tech, you can easily set all 3 of them up in the same exact manner, if that loadout is working for you. Or, as I always recommend, you can experiment with the other two variants if you don't care about stats. This could broaden your experience in the game and make you more familiarized with the different weapons in the game, without risking your apparent star configuration on your main variant.

Whatever works for you.



Just an FYI:
- BAP is helpful for increasing sensor ranges, but that's typically of limited use for most LRMs. However, it will disable any single ECM unit that happens to wonder close to you, which is immensely helpful.
- Artemis speeds up missile lock on times, and if you have direct line of sight also increases tracking and grouping. This all typically leads to more of your missiles landing on target. Les useful for smaller launcher sizes, more useful for larger ones. Also benefits SRMs, and it's a (tonnage) free upgrade for SSRMs.
- NARC lasts for a certain amount of time, as I'm sure you've already noticed. It also lets you target a mech while it's active no matter if you can see it or not. Also improves tracking strength, missile spread, targeting speed and turns off the target's ECM, if it had any. Many of these benefits do not stack with Artemis, but do stack with TAG.
- TAG is a direct spotting assistance tool. It needs to hit it's target like a laser to work, and can "punch" through any amount of ECM. However, the target will still be under ECM's affects (so slower missile lock on speeds), but will be able to be targeted. Has decent range, but it's downfall is if you can shoot them, they can probably shoot you back. Increases tracking, missile spread and targeting speed. Stacks with Artemis and/or NARC.

As a side note:
- Command Console (Inner Sphere) and Targeting Computers (Clan) do nothing for missile locks. It's a common misconception that their "increase data gather" makes missile locks appear faster. At the time of this posting, it does not. (Same with BAP's Increase Data Gather.)
- If you have ECM, then BAP does very little for you. All BAP will do if a unit has ECM and BAP is extend radar ranges and detect nearby shut down mechs (invaluable to SSRMs). It will not disable ECM, as ECM can also disable ECM. (This is a balancing mechanic.)


I think that covers everything I can think for right now. (Don't know if anyone has covered this stuff before now for you.)

Edited by Tesunie, 24 September 2015 - 05:29 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

karrade85, on 24 September 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

So then other than maybe tweaking my build a little for real improvment I'll have to work on getting the modules and mastery? Which means I need to work on 1 prime mech and 2 other variations of the mad dog?

At least that's the jist of it from what I understand the whole experince thing for skills is odd to me.

if I combine parts of the mechs together which mech does the exp count towards?
Say I have torso prime but left and right torso are the A varient.


update: I'm becoming obessed with gathering more information on this lol.
Ok so I've figured out my first question but the 2nd still stands. If I combine mech parts who gets the XP?

Also I have to keep in mind that as much as I hope to maintian such a KD ratio it could be that high due to some some good fortune. Let's face it 8 matches isn't a huge base line. I do have to stick around team and rely on inclose protection as the build has no lasers so a light mech could spell trouble for me. I wanted to fit in lasers but at this point it would mean losing a launcher as ammo is were it needs to be. I could play with droping the armor but that seems kinda risky.

Could you post a smurfy link with an accurate representation of your build? That would help us out a lot. For the record, my main schtick in my squad is that I'm the mech engineer, I do most of the build tweaking. So trust me, we can get you those lasers in there.