98 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

So, teams normally take a roll call at the beginning of a match and take stock of their tier? I've never been in those games. Plus I'm sure everyone truthfully tells their real tier ranking over chat in a match.

I think teir 3 player behavior may seem legit, but it sounds like more stereotyping than real world behavior.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Basically what I'm hearing sounds more like general PUG play than a tier specific thing.

[Mister Blastman]

xXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

That argument really cant float...because if im in an assault mech, to the best of my mechs abilities I'll get out front and tank as much damage as safely possible and get my guns working...just dont freaking b!tch out on me when the enemy team responds by doing the appropriate thing and moving TOWARDS my ass....

Hold on! I don't make things up. I say things based on experience and data I collect through my adventures. And just yesterday, someone on the forums (name redacted) said this:

MooOoOOOoO said:

What they should do, is add a bonus for having a higher hull integrity at the end of the match, if you have 80% or greater armor you get an effectiveness modifier.

The mentality is real!

While you might think it is good to tank damage, the Tier 3 rock hiding random mashers do not!

Edited by Mister Blastman, 24 September 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[Charronn]

I'm t3 and have to say since the tiers came out all i've had are horrible horrible games.
Granted i'm levelling a Dire and Wolverine,but all I've had is bad games.I know I havn't become a bad player since but after 7 losses and 1 win since I'm getting pissed off with it.
Tried on my alt account (t4) and everythings the same on that 1.
Dunno wtf is going on.

Edited by Charronn, 24 September 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Well i will say i dont have this experience very often, i do get the occasional Atlas LRM boat that has no idea what he is doing but i assume they are new or something (Tier 4 is where new players land) so we get the pleasure of playing with someone who just installed minutes ago in our tier either way. Weather we only go +/- one or we play all we still get to see tier 4, the fresh meat.

I also dont get what you are claming much, most the time my teams are fairly coordinated (minus the fresh guys) and even often use VOIP and chat to get at least a basic gameplan though out. Last night we all ran under HPG and waited for them to come in....they would not. SO we waited they got one of us and we felt the pressure but we got one back (1 to 1 now) and held our ground. With about 1:30 left on the clock and everyone on both teams getting anzy we bum rushed them from the d4 d5 entrance and managed to pull out a W with it ending 4-2.

Was fun, different, and not a single person held back when the push was called...took a minute to get it going but damn did we go!


Time of day i play is when i see the worst games...if i am on BEFORE 9am its just loss after loss with new guys and kids who are playing after school...come prime time i get much better games and much better opponents.

Edited by DarthRevis, 24 September 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[LordMelvin]

In all shooters there's an element of "I don't want to take damage so I'll hide until I get free hits." In a game like mech warrior where getting caught in a firing line can mean agonizing death I can understand the apprehension.

I've also noticed that a lot of players don't change target locks. So being the first person in sight usually means every LRM in the game will be pointed at you until you die.

I had a few incredibly frustrating losses (pushing out to engage, getting ripped to pieces, and going to spectator only to see my team waiting two grids behind and staring at the ground. So I plugged my headset in and played some Mech Commander and my win rate went us considerably. Granted, I'm in Tier 4 but it's a proven fact that taking initiative will cause at least some of the lemmings to follow.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Mister Blastman, on 24 September 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Hold on! I don't make things up. I say things based on experience and data I collect through my adventures. And just yesterday, someone on the forums (name redacted) said this:



The mentality is real!

While you might think it is good to tank damage, the Tier 3 rock hiding random mashers do not!

That...just...wow...blows my mind...

SOMEONE has to take the hits...it might as well be the guy with more side torso armor than some mechs have CT armor...I dont mind taking a few ppcs to slam 2 or 4 gauss rounds into something...

Does it backfire sometimes? yeah. I occasionally peek a bad corner, get half my mech blown away...it happens its the cost for being the boss mech. Sometimes I dont roll my damage and get ct cored like a scrubbie, but for the most part i can end a game with most of my front red and only just getting critcal hits while my team marches off to victory. THAT is a much better gam ethan sitting fat and happy with 0 damage to my mech. Its my dam job to take hits not the 50 tonner next to me.

[Mister Blastman]

xXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

That...just...wow...blows my mind...

SOMEONE has to take the hits...it might as well be the guy with more side torso armor than some mechs have CT armor...I dont mind taking a few ppcs to slam 2 or 4 gauss rounds into something...

Does it backfire sometimes? yeah. I occasionally peek a bad corner, get half my mech blown away...it happens its the cost for being the boss mech. Sometimes I dont roll my damage and get ct cored like a scrubbie, but for the most part i can end a game with most of my front red and only just getting critcal hits while my team marches off to victory. THAT is a much better gam ethan sitting fat and happy with 0 damage to my mech. Its my dam job to take hits not the 50 tonner next to me.

I wish sooo many players understood that concept right there...

[Revis Volek]

Mister Blastman, on 24 September 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Hold on! I don't make things up. I say things based on experience and data I collect through my (anecdotal) adventures. And just yesterday, someone on the forums (name redacted) said this:



The mentality is real!

While you might think it is good to tank damage, the Tier 3 rock hiding random mashers do not!

and you are propagating it like it is gospel....bravo sir.

BTW FTFY up top....

[Shae Starfyre]

I have been watching the red down arrow, yellow equal sign, and green up arrow on the end of game screen, and whatever statistics they used to put me in Tier 2 seems ridiculous to me.

However, I have not moved from where I am after so many games; goes up a pixel, down a pixel, doesn't move, and repeats.

So, my concern is, now that we are all where we are, will it always be very similar; sure, I suppose it is possible for someone to climb out of a tier or plummet downward, but, can they, if it is always still an up and down repeating processes of games.

We may all be stuck where we are now (because of population (relaxing of the gap between tiers) and game times (more randomness), unless you are gaming the statistics, welcome to your new home).

Somewhere, someone said, Russ said, it would take 2500 games to raise a tier or lose a tier; that's up or down arrows. Good luck with that without getting equal signs and streaks of ups and downs.

That is not an experience bar; that is a circle of despair if you're too fixated on it.

Edited by Aphoticus, 24 September 2015 - 10:20 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Aphoticus, on 24 September 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

I have been watching the red down arrow, yellow equal sign, and green up arrow on the end of screen, and whatever statistics they used to put me in Tier 2 seems ridiculous to me.

However, I have not moved from where I am after so many games; goes up a pixel, down a pixel, doesn't move, and repeats.

So, my concern is, now that we are all where we are, will it always be very similiar; sure, I suppose it is possible for someone to climb out or a tier or plummet downward, but, can they if it is always still an up and down repeating processes of games.

We may all be stuck where we are now (because of population and game times, unless you are gaming the statistics, welcome to your new home).

That is actually incredibly depressing, as I just got a ton of new mechs, I got marauders on back order and this new style of play just makes me not want to even hit the battle button....My teams in world of tanks are garbage, the teams in Warthunder are garbage, this was my relaxation.....

[AdamBaines]

DarthRevis, on 24 September 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Tier 3 plays with everyone, 5-1 so how are you so sure it tier 3 guys doing this?

You dont...

This.

[Mister Blastman]

Aphoticus, on 24 September 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

We may all be stuck where we are now (because of population and game times, unless you are gaming the statistics, welcome to your new home).

You're not stuck. You are never stuck!

In Tier 2 you have a few interesting choices:

1. Run challenging old-meta or non-meta builds (Highlander PPC+ac poptart snipers, splatapults, boomcats, laser Dragons ) and try to claw out.

2. Go meta-vomit wublord and embrace your high scores.

3. Load up a LRM 10, AC/2 and a flamer! You're on the...



... but you'll sure as hell have fun going down to tier 5 (and your teammates will hate you)

[Death Proof]

Aphoticus, on 24 September 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

I have been watching the red down arrow, yellow equal sign, and green up arrow on the end of screen, and whatever statistics they used to put me in Tier 2 seems ridiculous to me.

However, I have not moved from where I am after so many games; goes up a pixel, down a pixel, doesn't move, and repeats.

So, my concern is, now that we are all where we are, will it always be very similiar; sure, I suppose it is possible for someone to climb out or a tier or plummet downward, but, can they if it is always still an up and down repeating processes of games.

We may all be stuck where we are now (because of population and game times, unless you are gaming the statistics, welcome to your new home).

Somewhere, someone said, Russ said, it would take 2500 games to raise a tier or lose a tier; that;s up or down arrows. Good luck with that without getting equal signs and streaks of ups and downs.

Also, despite how it was described when they first announced it, PSR is indeed HEAVILY influenced by Win/Loss...so basically it's still using a modified version of the Elo system...just slightly influenced by match score now.

A loss will typically give you a red down arrow or a yellow equal sign. Only very rarely will it give you a green arrow up (I've had it happen a couple times when my score was twice as high or more than the rest of my team).

But yeah, the progress seems painfully slow.

[StonedDead]

Lol, I got T4 cause I've barely played since the last stat wipe, and when I have it's been in mostly lights which aren't really my thing.

Actually played a match the other night. Team ran under the deck on Crimson, let the enemy team get above us, then instead of waiting for them to come to us, rushed out into the open to let the other team kill them from the high ground. All while I stood under the deck and killed the ones trying to come down to us from the saddle. Got left alone against 7 mechs. Too bad they had a near fresh Atlas, I might have won.

Everyone lower your rankings and join the hair feather fun in T4. We let the other team have the advantage before we decide to push!

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Violence of action.

The team with more violence of action wins.

Problem is that most players in MWO are conditioned to cower and shy away from a fight because death means you're out of the fight. That's the nature of no respawns. That's why most CS matches are crawling camp fests, while CoD is full on zerg, and BF is far more tactical violence.

[Shae Starfyre]

xXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

That is actually incredibly depressing, as I just got a ton of new mechs, I got marauders on back order and this new style of play just makes me not want to even hit the battle button....My teams in world of tanks are garbage, the teams in Warthunder are garbage, this was my relaxation.....

Yea, but it is really no different than before; you won some, you lost some. I think this only allows for a slightly tighter, if we have the number of players, to lesson the gap between tiers; however, that will not increase someone's chance to get out of a tier, because the cycle will be just that much more repetitive; the more people, the tighter the gap, the more wins and losses mix (one after the other)...when it is less of a gap, and you have a wider range of players, there is a chance you could climb faster, but also fall faster with Win and loss Streaks.

It's a very strange mechanic to try and measure skill and appropriately define it for a player in a game like this. Theoretically, you have 3 groups, in my opinion; new, not new, and just good.

'New' can achieve 'Not New' Status, and 'Good' players who start 'New' can become 'Not New' and rise quickly to 'Good' status, but most people are just 'Not New'. (I include my self in the just 'Not New' status, by the way).

I personally believe that this is measured in part by competitive drive. Good players are not only competitive, but they are statistically breaking down the mechanics of the game, to well, put it simply, game the game. People like me, who are not new to the game, but have only a mild competitive nature, will simply never be good at the game; I do not care what Mech I pilot, or how it is effective, high or low hard points, quirks or not. It has to feel right (aim, controls, speed, whatever a person's specifics are) and just play for fun; sometimes only competing with one's self more than others (fighting that twitch as you press the mouse one key that throws your aim off kind of thing; knowing the battle field, and blaming yourself for not looking behind you from time to time; you know what I mean, 'Not New' people). We merely hope for a kill (or whatever that particular point of reference is for the individual that given moment or day).

Invalid Opinion Dispersed, carry on.

Edited by Aphoticus, 24 September 2015 - 10:41 AM.

[Chuck Jager]

i have seen a group of 4 assaults and heavies come up on 2 red doritos and then watch 2 of our team go to cover before firing a shot. Last time I checked 4>2.

HOw many forum entries do you hear folks say those idiots went charging into battle and we lost. Funny thing is I always think we lost because half of the team was hiding and "flanking". (not saying lone wolves need to go the opposite of the team or folks need to lone banzai army of one)

[Mister Blastman]

DarthRevis, on 24 September 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

Blastman i really thought you were more intelligent then this.....

So anyone not in Tier 1 is a noob...i see.

Did I say that in my satirical example? Let's extract a portrait based on the imagery and metaphors I posed...

Tier 1: The community fears meta so meta must be bad and the easy way! They are tryhard murderers! Oh and you can farm damage with streaks and be tier 1! (only to be killed once you are expected to carry versus players running true meta and viable builds)

Tier 2: Skill, meta and some fun shuffled in (this one is self-explanatory?)

Tier 3: Scared players, bad tactics = die a lot. Plus an assortment of button mashers who don't know how to combo a jump-in kick into a dragon punch or a crouching medium kick -> standing fireball.

Tier 4: I'm not scared of anything! This is fun! Big robots, pew pew!

Tier 5: Ladeelaa I'm going to run what I want because I want to! I do what I want! (all over the map)


So from my example above, Tier 1 and 2 both have skilled players. Tier 3 is an odd mix. Tier 4 doesn't know any better and Tier 5 players just don't care. Or did I miss your sarcasm? I think it is entirely possible but I don't think you intended any. If you did, I apologize.

I'm a writer; I'm used to condensing stuff into small amounts of words with maximum imagery.

[Almond Brown]

xXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

That is actually incredibly depressing, as I just got a ton of new mechs, I got marauders on back order and this new style of play just makes me not want to even hit the battle button....My teams in world of tanks are garbage, the teams in Warthunder are garbage, this was my relaxation.....

Seeing as the "Tier System" is but a week old, nothing has changed for anyone in MWO, well except the perception of how BIG some thought their E-Peen really was.

Now that reality could be incredibly depressing for many but nothing has really changed.

P.S. T3 has a (+/- 2) level spread so that can include players from T1-T5. The other Tiers get a lesser spread. Busting up or down a level and things might become better.

T1 = spreads T1 - T3
T2 = spreads T1 - T4
T3 = spreads T1 - T5
T4 = spreads T2 - T5
T5 = spreads T5 - T3

Edited by Almond Brown, 24 September 2015 - 10:32 AM.