277 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

samadhiVOID, on 24 September 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

I'm sorry this is dissatisfying for the tryhardiest of us out there who want this system to be an ideal reflection of their personal glory. It was never going to be that, but what I believe it is is a slick and effective way to make competitive AND fun matches for everyone regardless of skill level.

I can tell you that from my experience having dropped down with a huge bad run from the last event's disconnect fever combined with my stubbornness to complete the last 3 maps I had - I haven't seen more than 2 'somewhat' competitive matches since the patch. Every single match has been a flat out stomp one way or the other because the MM matches up far less skilled players against more skilled players who happen to have ended up in the same tier --also likely from dropping because of the last event.

This is just screwing over the players that continually end up drawing the short straw, will it balance out in another 1,000-2,000 matches? Who knows? But who is going to drop that much more when they keep seeing terrible matches one after another with their PSR dropping because MM can't manage to make anything for them resembling a competitive match.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

I can tell you that from my experience having dropped down with a huge bad run from the last event's disconnect fever combined with my stubbornness to complete the last 3 maps I had - I haven't seen more than 2 'somewhat' competitive matches since the patch. Every single match has been a flat out stomp one way or the other because the MM matches up far less skilled players against more skilled players who happen to have ended up in the same tier --also likely from dropping because of the last event.

Sounds like that situation had resulted from the bad event, not the PSR.

[Tesunie]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

Sounds like that situation had resulted from the bad event, not the PSR.

If a "poorly planned/implemented event" can have an influence (and a negative one at that) on PSR because it's rated on "winning" instead of actual player performance (with some minor loop holes otherwise)...

[Bloody]

and you have an event twice to 4 times a month ?

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

Sounds like that situation had resulted from the bad event, not the PSR.

The resulting problem is that unless I want to only play top tier heavies or assaults for the next who knows how many matches so I can score high enough to move up regardless of other players participation (for 9/10 matches as I'm currently seeing) I will only continue to get drug down further because of other players poor participation.

Having my tier drop and now the MM placing far more lesser skilled players on my team that I can carry without doing so simply means that I am not moving towards more competitive matches but simply continuing on a path of terrible match after terrible match at the whim of the MM.

The "team" part of this system is broken when MM doesn't make competitive matches - at the very best it is going to balance out so that nobody progresses beyond their rank. If it were actually creating competitive matches regularly I would have the opportunity to at the very lease not continue to lose rank, but that's simply not what I've experienced since dropping down.

[Samedi Wretch]

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

This is just screwing over the players that continually end up drawing the short straw, will it balance out in another 1,000-2,000 matches? Who knows? But who is going to drop that much more when they keep seeing terrible matches one after another with their PSR dropping because MM can't manage to make anything for them resembling a competitive match.

<snark> The "short straw" you say? Oh, I know... It's a feature. </snark>

Really though sorry you're going through a rough patch. It must level off though, right?

[Sarlic]

PGI and math doenst bode together.

I am not sure what to think of it. I mean most of the things has been already said here. I personally thinks it gravitates too much on a win scenario and as far i know i have been leveling Orions it's unclear to me why PSR doesnt count your personal mechs skills (basic/elite/master) in the rating.

I'm a true generalist player and i always try to teamwork.

For example New Players (aside from the boost) are getting multiplied, but the more 'experienced' players needs to get slaughered each time with low rewards results to even unbasic your mechs? Kinda weird to me. All what it matters is perhaps experiences, but that doenst make the mech more suiting to your level.

Was kind of hoping it would slightly count your mech skills into the rating.

Kinda hard to explain, but i hope people get it.

It's because of missing mech category/sep weight calculations. Instead PSR tied to the whole account regardless what mech you pilot.

Edited by Sarlic, 24 September 2015 - 09:50 PM.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

The resulting problem is that unless I want to only play top tier heavies or assaults for the next who knows how many matches so I can score high enough to move up regardless of other players participation (for 9/10 matches as I'm currently seeing) I will only continue to get drug down further because of other players poor participation.

Having my tier drop and now the MM placing far more lesser skilled players on my team that I can carry without doing so simply means that I am not moving towards more competitive matches but simply continuing on a path of terrible match after terrible match at the whim of the MM.

The "team" part of this system is broken when MM doesn't make competitive matches - at the very best it is going to balance out so that nobody progresses beyond their rank. If it were actually creating competitive matches regularly I would have the opportunity to at the very lease not continue to lose rank, but that's simply not what I've experienced since dropping down.

But if you are not playing your best mechs, you have no business being in the top tiers. Just as you think those lesser skilled players are detrimental to your chance of winning, you are detrimental to your team's chance of winning at high tier, if you do not bring out your best mechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 September 2015 - 10:00 PM.

[sycocys]

samadhiVOID, on 24 September 2015 - 09:39 PM, said:

<snark> The "short straw" you say? Oh, I know... It's a feature. </snark>

Really though sorry you're going through a rough patch. It must level off though, right?

I mean you'd think rng would eventually balance out, but I'm not sure I can play another 2-3,000 games to find out if it ever does start to take me back in the right direction. Especially not if this trend continues over the next 100 matches... I might just go back to sitting in the CW queue and playing one match an hour.

[Jman5]

50 50, on 24 September 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

@Jman @Nightmare1 @Tesuni
The point is, you will be rewarded for good personal effort, even in a loss.
You will not automatically raise your PSR just because you were on a winning team.
It is CW that is currently not affected by PSR.
Also keep in mind that with the patch everyone has been changed to tier 5 so for a while you are going to come up against experienced and skilled pilots that may in reality be several tiers above your own level.
This will eventually sort itself out but we just need to keep playing in the mean time.

I will re-write the figures here as I have observed:

VICTORY
Score over 100pts in the match to get an increase.
Expect to get a higher increase with a higher match score.
Score under 100pts and your PSR will not be affected.

This means the more you participate and contribute to the success for your team, the more likely you will win and the more likely you will get over 100pts from the match.
Sit around and not do much... and you are not going anywhere.

Someone in my unit had their score go up with just 51 points in a win, but let's use your number. Do you realize how pathetically low 100 match score is for someone on the winning team?

Simply being on the winning team automatically gives you +20 points. So that leaves another 80 points. 50% of your damage is converted into raw match score. So if you're on the winning team you would only need to do 160 damage. In reality when you take into account the assists and other bonuses you stumble into over the course of the game the damage you need to do to get 100 points is even lower.

Quote

Also keep in mind that with the patch everyone has been changed to tier 5 so for a while you are going to come up against experienced and skilled pilots that may in reality be several tiers above your own level.
This will eventually sort itself out but we just need to keep playing in the mean time.

Where did you hear this? Lots of people are not tier 5. I'm not tier 5.

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

But if you are not playing your best mechs, you have no business being in the top tiers. Just as you think those lesser skilled players are detrimental to your chance of winning, you are detrimental to your team's chance of winning at high tier, if you do not bring out your best mechs.

I'm not trying to be in the top tiers, have very little interest in that.

What I want to be is in the tier I was slotted in before the last event when I was getting competitive matches nearly every single time. Have been doing the same leveling mechs and putting up relatively similar numbers in matches the entire way there, often times still in the top 2-4 players in the match regardless of w/l.

The fact is the tier drop resulting from the event has been nothing but detrimental to the quality of matches I've seen, and I can't go back to where I was having competitive match UNLESS I only run top tier mechs for who knows how many matches.

Actual personal performance means very little to advancement when you draw 4 players that can't do 100 damage together in their assaults. Then that compounds when you get those draws match after match. When you can't get competitive matches because the MM draws poorly, you simply have very few options and even less chance to get slotted where you belong.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

I'm not trying to be in the top tiers, have very little interest in that.

What I want to be is in the tier I was slotted in before the last event when I was getting competitive matches nearly every single time. Have been doing the same leveling mechs and putting up relatively similar numbers in matches the entire way there, often times still in the top 2-4 players in the match regardless of w/l.

The fact is the tier drop resulting from the event has been nothing but detrimental to the quality of matches I've seen, and I can't go back to where I was having competitive match UNLESS I only run top tier mechs for who knows how many matches.

Actual personal performance means very little to advancement when you draw 4 players that can't do 100 damage together in their assaults. Then that compounds when you get those draws match after match. When you can't get competitive matches because the MM draws poorly, you simply have very few options and even less chance to get slotted where you belong.

How do you even know your tier had dropped during the event? You got no proof, only conjecture. It takes hundreds if not a thousand of matches to move a tier, and the last event took me only 86 matches. And the the PSR had proven to be much easier to advance than to fall.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 September 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[Kotzi]

Wasnt ELO not also W/L affected in most part? Why did we change this again?

[Johnny Z]

What ever the situation may be, over all the stomps are 1/3 matches as opposed to 2/3 like before. Match quality is way up.

Epic close matches 2 out of 5 matches yesterday. 1 really bad stomp because one team was losing the Nascar race on Caustic and none really stopped to fight effectively.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 September 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[El Bandito]

Kotzi, on 24 September 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

Wasnt ELO not also W/L affected in most part? Why did we change this again?

Because it wasn't as reliable as what we have now, I'm guessing.

[Thorqemada]

For me Matches differ much from Close to Stomp from Chaos to Organized...allways stay ready to be surprised.

I dont understand why PGI so hardly wants Newbs rushing into higher experience Tiers - i would feel guilty for being matched up against a Greenhorn that has still no clue.

In the end PSR is a metric about activity and success - which can work well when the Tiers have settled.

Though i feel a Pilots "Career" would motivate Players to play more.

[Kotzi]

Snipermeta incoming. Or do we have it already?

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Basing any kind of "skill" ranking system on "wins" in a "team" game, where you have 23 other players who determine your win/lose fates... Is not a good idea."

Yup. And I thought we already learned this during the recent kill/assist/win challenge. People were screaming at their team because they had to get a win to advance.

I'll be curious how this affects the Light Mech que. It seem obvious that the best way to ward off against red down arrows is to put high damage numbers on the board, which is tough in non-brawly lights. The dedicated capper role for Conquest is dead. The dedicated Narc light is dead. The scout role is now handicapped because movement to contact often means you stumble into a red team focus fire early in match and die with little points.

The information warfare scoring (scouting, spotting, tag/narc, counter ecm etc) need to be significantly increased.

I could be wrong - the light que is 8-11% right now. But that's a number I think PGI should keep an eye on.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 24 September 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[50 50]

@Jman5
I asked around.
After logging in after the patch to check out the tutorial and new goodies in the interface I saw immediately that I was tier 5.
Then after jumping into some matches and asking around in game, everyone else was saying they were tier 5 when I asked if there had been a reset.
Players I knew to be fairly skilled also seemed to be grouped that way.
Perhaps I have assumed too much, or maybe it was something to do with going through the tutorial.
Wonder if we could get that confirmed?

Also, wasn't it stated that new players would start at tier 4?

Re the match scores. Unless it changes with the tier you are in, which seems unnecessarily complicated, then it shouldn't be too difficult to get a positive result from a win. It boils down to how much you contribute to the match.
Just capturing the base in assault will give you the win but you will only get around 30pts.

Edited by 50 50, 24 September 2015 - 11:07 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"What ever the situation may be, over all the stomps are 1/3 matches as opposed to 2/3 like before. Match quality is way up. Epic close matches 2 out of 5 matches yesterday"

Same here. Having some great matches, lots of close 10-12 or 12-11 games.
Getting stomps in either direction maybe 1 of 10.

The new placement system works much better than the old one.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 24 September 2015 - 11:11 PM.