277 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

WarHippy, on 25 September 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

What you described is a red shirt not Rambo. Rambo is the one man army where as the red shirt is the low damage fodder player. Calling players who get themselves killed right off the bat having done virtually nothing Rambo makes pretty much no sense if you have actually watched the movies.

I think what he meant by Rambo is this. No Offense to any Leeroy's out there. https://www.youtube....e&v=mLyOj_QD4a4

[MrJeffers]

Sjorpha, on 25 September 2015 - 03:14 AM, said:

If that was true, since you start in tier 4, no one would be tier 5 now. Fortunately it isn't true, people wo play really badly and don't contribute to the win do drop down to lower tier as evidenced by the fact that there are players in tier 5 at all.

It's also not at all what Paul said in his post, what he says is that assuming everyone gets better at the game over time everyone should also rise in tiers over time. If you don't actually get better at the game you will get worse results as you face better players and therefore eventually stop rising.

That is very different from how you and many others choose to read it, despite hw clearly the post is written, and quite frankly I think it isn't even a genuine misunderstanding but a deliberate case of dishonest smearing.

It's exaclty what Paul said, you are ignoring the relvant section(s). For example:

Quote

If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1.

The Paulconomy, on 25 September 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

If you ignore the part where you have to keep getting better at the game... sure "hard not to"

And you're ignoring the part where he said exactly that.

Quote

If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1.

With no new players to feed the scores everyone goes up because it's primarily based on W/L. People who win more than they lose will eventually go up to Tier 1. And in the 'no new players' scenario everyone who doesn't win more than they lose would eventually be Tier two.

This isn't a skill system, it takes too many matches to reach your rating. It's an XP bar with penalties for loses.

EDIT

And it's certainly not a relative skill or ranking system like elo, because PSR isn't a zero sum gain like elo.

Edited by MrJeffers, 25 September 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Match score. Yours. Learn to read.

Kira Onime, on 24 September 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/


Fkn lol.

"Tiers are NOT a RANK"

"If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1."




EDIT: Let's bring a bit more clarification since some people don't seem to understand.
Yeah I didn't quote the rest of the sentence simply because it's ******** with the context of the PSR system.

It's fairly normal to assume a player will improve as he plays under the condition that said player wants to improve.
The system in its nature is also heavy flawled the moment you start putting groups into the equation. A low rated pilot can easily be carried by a good team since there are only 2 ways to lose PSR and both involve losing.

[Johnny Z]

MrJeffers, on 25 September 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

It's exaclty what Paul said, you are ignoring the relvant section(s). For example:






And you're ignoring the part where he said exactly that.




With no new players to feed the scores everyone goes up because it's primarily based on W/L. People who win more than they lose will eventually go up to Tier 1. And in the 'no new players' scenario everyone who doesn't win more than they lose would eventually be Tier two.

This isn't a skill system, it takes too many matches to reach your rating. It's an XP bar with penalties for loses.

EDIT

And it's certainly not a relative skill or ranking system like elo, because PSR isn't a zero sum gain like elo.

I think your description of a EXP bar is wrong, its more like a Points ladder since the arrow is up and down and not side to side, or maybe Mana rope, but definately not a bar because the arrow is up or down. Lets keep focusing on the important bits shall we.

[MrJeffers]

Johnny Z, on 25 September 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

I think your description of a EXP bar is wrong, its more like a Points ladder since the arrow is up and down and not side to side, or maybe Mana rope, but definately not a bar because the arrow is up or down. Lets keep focusing on the important bits shall we.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's you that are the one missing the important facts. This isn't a skill system, it's an experience system and there is a huge difference. Doing something 10,000 times gives you experience. It doesn't turn you into a super star, or even mean you are good.

[Johnny Z]

MrJeffers, on 25 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's you that are the one missing the important facts. This isn't a skill system, it's an experience system and there is a huge difference. Doing something 10,000 times gives you experience. It doesn't turn you into a super star, or even mean you are good.

Which has to do with this topic how? Since this isnt an experience system.

No one knows the details, certainly not me but it seems this PSR tiers includes personal score, win/loss, number of matches. The ability to go up or down in at least some tiers. Thats not even close to an experience system.

PSR is meant to determine player ability and to creat matches, matching similar player abilities, "not a ranking system".

Does it work well or not, is it an improvement, can it be improved. The rest is irrelevant or trivial or silly.

Saying win/loss or any of the other factors should be ignored is stright up silly to though. Its an improved system because those factors are not ignored. Among other reasons I have been assuming.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 September 2015 - 08:13 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

So PSR is an XP bar, for how good a team player you are, and not Rank

I'm laughing at one thing

All those people in game right now, screaming, I got 3 solo kills and my, insert expletive, PSR goes down.

I'm sadly shaking my head at the complete, utter, utter, waste of time and money spend on this pointless addtion, when it would have been better used, making CW more fun.

I'm also going to be highly amused, at the Raging of those that thought P.S.R was going to allow them to point fingers at people and go, I'm better than you, eat this, you suck.

Edited by Cathy, 25 September 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[Lugh]

WarHippy, on 25 September 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

What you described is a red shirt not Rambo. Rambo is the one man army where as the red shirt is the low damage fodder player. Calling players who get themselves killed right off the bat having done virtually nothing Rambo makes pretty much no sense if you have actually watched the movies.

Especially since he never HITS ANYTHING. Oh wait that does make sense doesn't it...

Edited by Lugh, 25 September 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[DJO Maverick]

My two cents: there seems to be way too much emphasis on quantity of matches over quality (especially over time).

Here's an example I saw this week.

Background - I run a very casual unit (meaning most members only get to play the game about two hours, twice a week). Based on averaging from stats, I'd say I've only logged maybe 500-600 matches since January when they started counting toward the new system, and it has me lower half of tier 3.

That being said, I've played since closed beta, and my post-reset K/D has gone down a lot since Clans, but is still a workmanlike 1.7. We played as a lower-tier unit in a couple of previous events and did alright.

The other night, we had a 10 running, with a few t3, most t4, and a couple of very green guys who are t5 and deserve it (bless them). We matched against a mix of 8 people who have identified on here as being t1 under the new system. We ultimately did lose, but final was 10-12 and pretty darn close, and the two extras on our side sure didn't carry it. Having had to go against similar 'real' t1 groups in the past, like SJR, and getting rightfully shut out, this was a joke.

If the system was anywhere near actually reflective of skill, there should be no way a mostly t4 team can fight a mostly t1 team to a near-draw (short of them all bringing flamers).

This tells me that some people with high match counts are getting artificially inflated to t1 by this system, while anyone deserving of just t2 in my crew probably has as much as 2-3 years worth of grinding (by Paul's math) to reach it, based on the limited hours they have to play. Both of those seem like problems to me.

[MrJeffers]

Johnny Z, on 25 September 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Which has to do with this topic how? Since this isnt an experience system.

No one knows the details, certainly not me but it seems this PSR tiers includes personal score, win/loss, number of matches. The ability to go up or down in at least some tiers. Thats not even close to an experience system.

XP systems can have penalties, and I even mentioned that in my first post. That doesn't turn it into a skill rating or system. So yes it's relevant and you apparently don't understand what an experience system is, I guess you haven't played many RPGs.

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

since 99% of the community is unable to make an intelligent analysis of a McDonalds Menu, I'd say that they are largely saving themselves a headache on the forums.

Does it come with Fries ...

[DarthHias]

Paul Brings Clarification To Psr And Tiers.


But can he also bring Balance to the Force?

[Kira Onime]

DarthHias, on 25 September 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Paul Brings Clarification To Psr And Tiers.


But can he also bring Balance to the Force?

But can he see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch?

[An Atlas]

MrJeffers, on 25 September 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

And you're ignoring the part where he said exactly that.

Oh look, another guy selectively quoting without actually reading.....I'll highlight the important part for you since you lack reading comprehension.

"If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1. That's because with experience comes better player skill. There would still be people in lower Tiers, it's just that that pool of players would be smaller than top Tier players. Lower tier players would end up being those who refuse to adjust to their team's dynamics and play a 1 trick pony type of gameplay."

Oh look, the quote takes on an entirely different meaning when you actually read it.

Edited by The Paulconomy, 25 September 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[MrJeffers]

The Paulconomy, on 25 September 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

Oh look, another guy selectively quoting without actually reading.....I'll highlight the important part for you since you lack reading comprehension.

If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1. That's because with experience comes better player skill. There would still be people in lower Tiers, it's just that that pool of players would be smaller than top Tier players. Lower tier players would end up being those who refuse to adjust to their team's dynamics and play a 1 trick pony type of gameplay.

Actually that part doesn't change the first part, because of the math.

[Screech]

It really becomes apparent that most never really played a team sport of any type growing up. And even fewer were the best player on a bad team.

[An Atlas]

MrJeffers, on 25 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's you that are the one missing the important facts. This isn't a skill system, it's an experience system and there is a huge difference. Doing something 10,000 times gives you experience. It doesn't turn you into a super star, or even mean you are good.

and playing a 1000 games without getting better won't get you to Tier 1.

So system is working perfectly.

[Johnny Z]

MrJeffers, on 25 September 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

XP systems can have penalties, and I even mentioned that in my first post. That doesn't turn it into a skill rating or system. So yes it's relevant and you apparently don't understand what an experience system is, I guess you haven't played many RPGs.

Likening 5 tiers that include personal score(based on many numerous actions in a match), win/loss, matches played, positive and negative tier change, to a 1 to 50 linear EXP lvl grind in any one of 100 RPG's is a stretch by any definition.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 September 2015 - 08:27 AM.

[Kira Onime]

The Paulconomy, on 25 September 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

and playing a 1000 games without getting better won't get you to Tier 1.

So system is working perfectly.

Group drops want a word with you.
They say you're wrong.

[An Atlas]

MrJeffers, on 25 September 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Actually that part doesn't change the first part, because of the math.

b/c of "the maths" huh...

Bachelor of Science in math here, please enlighten me

Let me guess, you're going to start with "Assume you can always win more than you lose as you raise through the tiers despite this being the exact means of measuring your ability as a team player that the PSR system uses to move you up through the tiers if you can consistently perform well"

Sound like what you were going to say just worded like I actually thought about it?

Edit:

Let me try one

Assume every day trader makes more than he loses on average for every trade.
With enough Trades he will become rich.
Therefore, becoming rich only requires us to farm as many trades as possible.

STOCK MARKET IS BROKEN GUYS!

Edited by The Paulconomy, 25 September 2015 - 08:35 AM.