444 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

BigBenn, on 28 September 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Clan lasers are fine.

Control the quirks.

Wait... are you saying you want to balance Clan lasers by minimizing the quirks? I just want to be sure that is what you are saying before I post a response.

[Rebas Kradd]

The original idea was for Clan lasers to be better, but at a higher skill cost; you had to be a good player to match IS mechs in a Clan mech.

This was done by increasing burn time on all weapons. AC's became burst fire, LRMs became ripple fire, and lasers just had their burn times increased. This mandated smart positioning. If you tried to face tank in a Clan mech, you'll take more CT damage. Or that was the theory.

Like a lot of balancing mechanisms in MWO, it was a good idea but simply didn't go far enough. Lengthen the burn times further. Simple concept, doesn't make single lasers on a mech useless like OP's idea does, and differentiates IS/Clan gameplay as per the origina intention.

[SplashDown]

There is nothing wrong with clan as it is..IS gets loads of quiks to compensate becuz of all the crying befor.
If clan wepons are to be nerfed again then IS should lose all quirks imho.

[Johnny Z]

SplashDown, on 28 September 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

There is nothing wrong with clan as it is..IS gets loads of quiks to compensate becuz of all the crying befor.
If clan wepons are to be nerfed again then IS should lose all quirks imho.

Prepare to kiss easy mode good bye. Clan players have been riding the easy mode crutch for to long. Time to get used to having a very slight advantage at most.

Dont worry everyone knows Clan players wont handle an even playing field very well so there will still be a slight advantage. In perceptible to long time Clan players used to being next to worthless on the field if not given a mech better in every conceiveable way to play with.

In fact I expect alot will up and quit just in time for Steam launch to make room on the servers for new players. Cya wouldnt want to be ya.

Edited by Johnny Z, 28 September 2015 - 09:52 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

John1352, on 28 September 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

The ITERATIVE bit is especially important!
Changing the values a lot, then leaving them for 6 months is stupid. Look at the 50% (67% with modules/elite) quirks!

Why do people complain about the 50% quirks? It's not like any of of the mechs that have them are particularly OP.

[SplashDown]

Johnny Z, on 28 September 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Prepare to kiss easy mode good bye. Clan players have been riding the easy mode crutch for to long. Time to get used to having a very slight advantage at most.

Dont worry everyone knows Clan players wont handle an even playing field very well so there will still be a slight advantage. In perceptible to long time Clan players used to being next to worthless on the field if not given a mech better in every conceiveable way to play with.

In fact I expect alot will up and quit just in time for Steam launch to make room on the servers for new players. Cya wouldnt want to be ya.

clan is suppoused to be better..again IS gets loads of quirks to make up for this...the game is fine the way it is now...ppl should quit crying and play the game.
Allso bear in mind that this game is allways evolving..as it did in the storyline....i would bet that sooner or later IS is going to get they cross breed IS/omni mechs like they did in the story.
Im sure at that point all the carebears in IS will start crying they should get a boost haha.

Bottem line..clan is poused to be better..but they really arent with all the IS quirks...if ya cant handle the game go play kittens online

Edited by SplashDown, 28 September 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[Nori Silverrage]

The cLPL doesn't need any changes. It is just fine how it is. In fact it is probably one of the best balanced clan lasers vs IS lasers. It probably could use a range reduction to 550 or something, just to give the ERLL and IS lasers a better chance. But damage is only slightly higher than the IS LPL (2) while having 67% increased duration. You can't fire more than 2 without ghost heat and while it weighs in at 1t less, most clan mechs have less space anyway.

It is very rare that you will see builds with more than 2x cLPL out there because that weight is much better spent on something else.

As for the ERLL. Just reduce the duration a little bit and you might start to see it more than the cLPL. The reason no one takes it now is that you get increased range, but worse DPS, DPH and it sucks up close because of duration.

The cERML is a tough one to balance. Hits to heat or damage could make already underperforming clan mechs even worse. Maybe it would be enough to reduce range to say 350.

Edited by Nori Silverrage, 28 September 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I think we are better off adding IS ER Small, ER Medium and X-Pulse. Then balance those against Clan tech. What we have now for IS was never ment to be balanced against Clan Tech.

[Mister Blastman]

I think the best thing that could happen to this game is a severe reduction in weapon range by removing the 2x range mechanic. Insane idea, right? SRMs disagree. So do PPCs. Of course, that means it'd have to be removed for gauss, too--and I'm okay with that.

[Livewyr]

While I agree that clan lasers are a bit too good. (Hell ALLL lasers are too good right now when compared to their counterpart weapon types.)

They are all the clans actually get for range. (Aside from the Clan Gauss, which takes up most of the available tonnage on almost all clan mechs)

Clan ACs have all the negatives of the lasers, without any of the positives... (DoT, with lead time and ammo consumption, with some heat...)
Clan LRMs are still laughable.. even before AMS and ECM.


I think All lasers need to be brought down a good sized peg, but if we're going to nerf clan lasers to be roughly equal to IS lasers, than either clan ACs need a boost, or IS ACs need a nerf...

There is a reason all the clans are laser boats.

[Chuck Jager]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 September 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

I think we are better off adding IS ER Small, ER Medium and X-Pulse. Then balance those against Clan tech. What we have now for IS was never ment to be balanced against Clan Tech.

I think many folks agree with you, but there is the whole lore timeline and pgi's calendar that do not agree. They have said they want to hold off on timeline increase. The fan boys are the biggest purchasers of packs, especially when you know most of the mechs are average at best. If you mess up timeline and weapons, who will still buy the packs (I know tin foil hats, but they do complain a ton)

[Mcgral18]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 September 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

I think we are better off adding IS ER Small, ER Medium and X-Pulse. Then balance those against Clan tech. What we have now for IS was never ment to be balanced against Clan Tech.

And I'll repeat: I think that's a ******* terrible idea.


Balance what we have now. I don't want more legacy tech.

[Chuck Jager]

Mcgral18, on 28 September 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

And I'll repeat: I think that's a ******* terrible idea.


Balance what we have now. I don't want more legacy tech.

see told you so. The double range on cmlas is not a %50 quirk or how about the %10-30 weight reduction too

[Mcgral18]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 28 September 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

see told you so. The double range on cmlas is not a %50 quirk or how about the %10-30 weight reduction too

You want to explain what this means?

[Mcgral18]

Paigan, on 28 September 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

The fundamental failure most whiny people make is that they want to achieve symmetrical balance, meaning IS and Clan tech to be equally good.

This is not the idea in Battletech.

Balance is paramount, no doubt. Clans are NOT meant to be superior in every way.
They are meant, however, to have superior tech.
IS could perfectly balance that out by greater numbers (more tonnage and the like), richer tactical options (more modules and consumables like artillery, also mines, ammo packs, that C3 computer thingy, etc.)

So effectively, clans would be "technologically superior, but tacticalls dull", while IS would be "technologically inferior, but tactically creative, mean, sneaky, etc."
That could all be very well implemented with a simple (and competent) adjustment of some XML values.

Think of it like Starcraft: vastly imbalanced in detail (e.g. zergling vs. zealot), but (near) perfectly balanced in the grand scheme.


In short: DON'T TOUCH THOSE WEAPON VALUES, WHINY FREEBIRTH SCUM

Well, that's a terrible idea. C3 will do nothing in MWO.

Having (exceedingly) OP Clams will ruin the game, sorry to break it to you. This isn't a single player game.

These whiny Clammers can never see reason.

SplashDown, on 28 September 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

There is nothing wrong with clan as it is..IS gets loads of quiks to compensate becuz of all the crying befor.
If clan wepons are to be nerfed again then IS should lose all quirks imho.

That's the plan; reduce quirks. Mechs on both sides will still require them, but they can be reduced or swapped to durability.

Mister Blastman, on 28 September 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

I think the best thing that could happen to this game is a severe reduction in weapon range by removing the 2x range mechanic. Insane idea, right? SRMs disagree. So do PPCs. Of course, that means it'd have to be removed for gauss, too--and I'm okay with that.

That's the other option. Give the cERML the full 400-450M range, but make the Maximum range 540M.

A sharp damage drop off. Or greater; but those are the two variables in the Weapons.xml

maxRange="810" longRange="405"

Edited by Mcgral18, 28 September 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[Chuck Jager]

Mcgral18, on 28 September 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

You want to explain what this means?

The clan benefits lore be dammed are the reason quirks are so good. IF you think they are balanced by heat and duration you are blind. I only play clan because they are the best but I am tired of watching pug teams of IS mechs get torn apart. There are a couple of really good %50 quirked mechs I will take instead of caln 2-4 the rest need kick ass quirks to compete.

If clan are supposed to be better then get rid of IS

[wanderer]

Fix the heat system, or we'll just be in an endless cycle of "who can pump the most pinpoint damage into the target" anyway.

The system is broken at a level below weapon stats at this point and will remain that way until the fundamentals are fixed.

[LordBraxton]

Lugh, on 28 September 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

I'd rather have the lower heat on the IS side over the increased range myself, as I prefer brawling. But I appear to be in the minority, as most fancy themselves LEET SNIPER DUDEZ....

then play IS?

All of my IS mechs are in perma-mothballs because I bought wave 3.

I love how faction exclusive players are so idiotically blind. It's like the 'console wars' between microsoft and sony kids.

Clan lasers do similar damage-per-tic, better overall damage, with better range, and heat issues that are largely ignored by free XL engines and 2 slots DHS.

Edited by LordBraxton, 28 September 2015 - 11:44 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Mcgral18, on 28 September 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

That's the plan; reduce quirks. Mechs on both sides will still require them, but they can be reduced or swapped to durability.




That's the other option. Give the cERML the full 400-450M range, but make the Maximum range 540M.

A sharp damage drop off. Or greater; but those are the two variables in the Weapons.xml

maxRange="810" longRange="405"

I wouldn't mind them going further and halving it so...

405 is ermed range
202.5 = 100% damage
405 = 0 damage
So between 202.5 and 405 you get the damage dropoff

Or limit their range to same as IS meds @ 270 = 100%, 405 = 0% and have the dropoff between 270 and 405.

I want SRMs to be worth a darn bad.

And, when you think about it... PPCs at the current velocity would have some sort of purpose again because most lasers in play wouldn't be able to touch a PPC mech at their range. The lasers would no longer be the obvious go to choice.

But gauss would have to be hard limited to max range and no more multiplier plus the cooldown would need to be increased by at least one to two more seconds or it quickly would become the meta. I say at least two more seconds increase to its cooldown if the lasers were cut like that--if not three seconds. Yes, eight seconds. But... you want god tier pinpoint, you pay the god tier tax.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 28 September 2015 - 12:30 PM.

[Homeskilit]

In regards to Clan v IS balance:

Why do people feel the need to nerf Clan equipment. Yes their stuff is better, it was meant to be better. They are supposed to be technologically superior at first but the IS quickly closed that gap. What they need to do is add ER weapons to the IS, timeline be damned. I think we have all destroyed enough Clan mechs to have reverse engineered the technology by now.


With regards balance among the weapon types:

Chuck YeaGurr, on 28 September 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

The cerml could use an extra ton.

One of the problems with the laser vomit is you can put too many of them on your mech for too little cost. This will either cut down the amount of lasers people can fit or the amount of heatsinks people can use which would help curb the problem. Most of the other lasers have trade offs with range or heat/burn time but really all the weapons should be looked at.


In regards to Omni-mechs vs Standard mechs:

We need more modules that vary the playing field. With Endo, DHS, FF, XL,ER, and the rest of the ballistic weapons being equal the only thing separating the Omni mechs from the standard mechs is hard point types/locations. So give standard mechs a larger variety of modules to work with (basically make all quirks modules) and the playing field is equal. Do not forget the Clans have standard mechs too and hopefully they will be added to the game also.