112 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

This is not new to ACH. It came with clans: 110 kph SCR and 90 kph heavies. Since then, it causes even more nascar's as those fast and OP mechs run after the slower than molasses assaults.

Edited by Chemie, 30 September 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[Cabusha]

Not just the speed from big engines, the other benefit is the huge increase in the responsiveness of the mech. It should have been scaled, with lighter chassis getting more benefit from big engines, and heavier chassis less.

They didn't so we have 65-75 ton heavies that are over engined and feel like a medium.

[FupDup]

Cabusha, on 30 September 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

Not just the speed from big engines, the other benefit is the huge increase in the responsiveness of the mech. It should have been scaled, with lighter chassis getting more benefit from big engines, and heavier chassis less.

They didn't so we have 65-75 ton heavies that are over engined and feel like a medium.

Larger engines also provide more heatsink slots so that you can save critslots to install more stuff. This is especially important for mechs that have sub-250 engine caps...

[Triordinant]

Prosperity Park, on 30 September 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

In have been leveling my Maulers lately, and oddly enough, have not been left behind much at all...

... Possibly because I try to begin matches by announcing the location of our Assault lance and say:

[team] "Our Assaults are in B3"

That simple reminder has worked wonders for me... But I may be lucky.

I don't usually play Assaults but I often start the match by typing "link up with the Assaults" if the Assaults are off to one side on a map like Tourmaline.

Edited by Triordinant, 30 September 2015 - 06:32 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

People are using larger engines because ttk keep decreasing. A larger engine spreads damage and gets you out of trouble. The great rebalance should increase ttk, atleast that is what Russ is shooting for. Lets hope they can so we can go back to using stompy robots and not ac20 nascar

[KrazedOmega]

It doesn't help that PGI decided to break the lances into weight groups. I still have no idea why they chose to do that.

If they were balanced with a light, medium, heavy and an assault per lance the assaults getting left behind wouldn't be as much of an issue.

[Kraftwerkedup]

75kph with a 63 point wub alpha is pretty insane for the Wubshee.

You never get left behind. You wreck everything.

My problem is that im generally the first guy to "the place to be" and im still waiting on not only the other assaults, but the entire rest of the team. Nothing is more frustrating than being the first on scene in a 95 tonner to "the place to be" and watching people just then, turn around and start moving from the spawn point.

Alpine and New Rivercity are the worst offenders, but Mining Collective, and Forest Colony have the same issues, as well as Caustic. Not making it to the ridge of the cauldron in time really screws your team.

Speed is life. Alpha is life insurance.

[FupDup]

Kraftwerkedup, on 30 September 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

...
My problem is that im generally the first guy to "the place to be" and im still waiting on not only the other assaults, but the entire rest of the team. Nothing is more frustrating than being the first on scene in a 95 tonner to "the place to be" and watching people just then, turn around and start moving from the spawn point.
...

I experience this as well. People derp around so much and I have a sadface every time my heavies or assaults beat mediums and lights to the front lines. People seem to AFK at the start of the match for the first 10 seconds or more, and in general just flop around aimlessly.

I on the other hand tend to hit W the moment that systems are nomnom.

Edited by FupDup, 30 September 2015 - 08:46 PM.

[Madcap72]

Chemie, on 30 September 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

This is not new to ACH. It came with clans: 110 kph SCR and 90 kph heavies. Since then, it causes even more nascar's as those fast and OP mechs run after the slower than molasses assaults.

My 360XL Shadowhawk thinks the speed meta existed before the clans.

[GrimRiver]

Sarlic, on 30 September 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

It's not about who or what started it.

The main problem i am trying to point out that this game gets worse for people to catch up. The differences between the solo and the group que is huge. (It always have been in certain gameplay)

But rusty old behaviour still remains. Faster newer mechs do contribute to the same problem. As you have pointed out it didnt started alone with the ACH. But the break through is roughly the same. Fast mechs makes other mech fall behind if people go for the sweet spot and that's either a medium or a heavy.

Why bring a Assault on the field when a faster heavy can do the same with a few more alpha's. More speed, same result.

It's not only the Assault class who are experiencing this problem.

I feel the same, im mostly an assault/heavy person and my EXE and BNC used to dom the field...but not no more.

[STEF_]

Already said in previous threads: speed is dumb high in mwo.

We all are piloting light mechs with huge tonnage (except few exceptions).

This brings to weird stuff, like heavies flanking or even scouting a-la light mech, nascaring a -la Nascar, players who don't know or refuse to know what positioning is, maps that seem too small, devs that must make enoumous maps

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 30 September 2015 - 09:49 PM.

[STEF_]

Madcap72, on 30 September 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

LOL speed has been the real meta for YEARS.

Yep, and it is still, apparently.
Average match duration when I drop with my friends is 3-4 minutes, and it's not only because we are good with aiming.

I found speed is quite weird and very OP. It should be tuned down.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 30 September 2015 - 09:54 PM.

[AssaultPig]

it's almost as though your 100 ton firepower monster needs something to offset that advantage!

they have designed themselves into a corner to some extent; if lights (and some mediums) slow down really at all, there is no reason to drive them. If heavies slow down, there is little reason to bring one vs. an assault. And so on.

the only mechs that should really be in danger of getting 'left behind' are 100 tonners, and even then it's more the fault of their pilots than anything.

[XX Sulla XX]

A lot of the problem is people not knowing when to stop moving or change direction or wait on a lance to catch up etc. Like most problems its from bad choices.

[Revis Volek]

FupDup, on 30 September 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

I on the other hand tend to hit W the moment that systems are nomnom.

I learned to break this habit....i take a rip, or send out a text and give it 40 seconds to a minute sometimes if i am in a fast mech.

Being the first one to take dmg is often a recipe for me to be the first one dead. I am not afraid of a little dmg but i tend to get myself into trouble at least once a match. So that extra 10% is a major help lol. Dmg taken after that 40 seconds seems to be shared by the team so much better....

Edited by DarthRevis, 30 September 2015 - 11:32 PM.

[Sarlic]

Chagatay, on 30 September 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Go big* or go home.

*Go big in this case is engine size. I don't recommend less than the 350 STD for Mr. Atlas.

Titannium, on 30 September 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

well , speed isnt the problem. Its the people.
IF they support assaults and cover them, there will be no issue.
So you probably see a lot of leaving assaults behind thing.

I will not tell you advices about Atlases, cause you know all of them. But I personaly have 3 versions, and in all are STD 350 (62.4 kph). Im not left back, ever.
For Maulers I pick STD 315 (62.3 kph)
I feel that 62 kph is perfect border for assault to be mobile enough. (only my opinion)

Ofc DWFs are in trouble here. In this part you are right.

ACh isnt OP in speed, rather in ARMOR (stripping 1% constantly, no matter what) - this is broken as hell.

You see this is the exact problem. Speed is a one of the problems. Perhaps unnoticed.

Let me give a example. The Atlas comes stock with a STD 300. Now back in Beta this was not a problem and the engine could go wit the flow without any issues. Clan Invasion one launched. New 'norm' was a STD325. That's 4 more engines you have to skip, 30,5 tons you have to sacrifice and invest 1,933,333 million of cbills.

If you say recommend that which i personally don't (D-DC has the sweet spot with this engine other variant questionable) and that's going even bigger is a STD350 you will sacrifice 36,5 tons and have to invest 2,146,667 of cbills to make it even viable. 2 engines below the max rating.

You are practically skipping up to 9-10(!) engines from stock(!!!) just to caugh up with the main pack. Why else so you see practically all Maulers running the same thing?

Then i haven't even started on several mediums or heavies on the same side.

That's rediculous. Even for Mechwarrior standards. Even insane. (For brawling purposes i get it, bu think about the engine range / speed for a moment)

Back to my point. Players are also contributing to the same problem because they want to NASCAR as fast as possible. Also not caring for Assaults is a thing what happens alot. Which is not very suprising because everybody seems to have their own target fixation nowdays. "Come in late, no kills or damage for you".

You find yourself alot in different positions trying to maintain as fast a possible. In group this is way less of a problem. Some people really need to learn "go big or go home" doesnt cut.

Edited by Sarlic, 01 October 2015 - 12:17 AM.

[Sarlic]

AssaultPig, on 30 September 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

it's almost as though your 100 ton firepower monster needs something to offset that advantage!

they have designed themselves into a corner to some extent; if lights (and some mediums) slow down really at all, there is no reason to drive them. If heavies slow down, there is little reason to bring one vs. an assault. And so on.

the only mechs that should really be in danger of getting 'left behind' are 100 tonners, and even then it's more the fault of their pilots than anything.

You seem to miss entirely the point. Sorry.

Edited by Sarlic, 30 September 2015 - 11:59 PM.

[Sarlic]

XX Sulla XX, on 30 September 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

A lot of the problem is people not knowing when to stop moving or change direction or wait on a lance to catch up etc. Like most problems its from bad choices.

I agree with you.

12 man random pugs is always a thing we have to deal with. It still saddens me to see the amount of derping around in the solo q after 3 years.

As i have said before the quality of the tools to communicate needs to go up. Nobody bothers signing a role for Commander and play on the mini-map.

Good in innovative tools is what we need. Atleast in my opinion. Communication is often lacking or at fault here. Even when you say to support the Assault some people still don't bother.

Perhaps PGI should take a closer look at how things go and tie perhaps a reward on it. Or bonuses. But that doenst even remove the fact that our current communications tools are kinda low quality to begin with.

Edited by Sarlic, 30 September 2015 - 11:55 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Yeah funny stuff. Yesterday was playing banshee 3e. First map mining colony, assaults on left spawn. Everyone regrouping to assaults.. Nice, I think to myself, the team has a deathball. One lance comes towards us I start shooting and align to left side to make room... Every goddamn mech steers right and run away from the fight even though we had superiority over enemy lance. I was left alone 4v1 and after that my team died one by one doing the wide fail train. I'm like jeez these guys pro as heck.

Next match I forest colony... Ok fast clan heavies and stuff regrouping there I'm gonna group with this crab and go there. The fail train starts to break before we even get near enemy. We got to the fight and our timbers and hellbringer were alredy dead along with mediums. Dealing the damage I could, died, lost.

I didn't play banshee anymore after that.

[Sarlic]

FupDup, on 30 September 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

I experience this as well. People derp around so much and I have a sadface every time my heavies or assaults beat mediums and lights to the front lines. People seem to AFK at the start of the match for the first 10 seconds or more, and in general just flop around aimlessly.

I on the other hand tend to hit W the moment that systems are nomnom.

I agree with you about AFK. Too many times i experienced this as well and lose a 100 ton in shortly after the start.

But the thing is look at the Timerwolf. A good build Timby goes 80 km/h. A Stormcrow goes around a 100 km/h. A Ebon goes around 81 km/h.

With all this mix and match up bot clan IS it just favors speed. I just got into Orions a couple of weeks and i got a 78 km/h Orion. The first thing i noticed i tend leave the Assaults very fast behind. Even in the heat of the battle i seemed to notice in one of my first matches with a faster mech i 'wanted' to flank around my friendly Assault. Glad i didnt. Because i know better and put up a fireline instead. But it shows what i see every day in and out in the solo q. As soon fire hits their paint they flee in everyone direction and then line up to follow each other around the map. Like flies.

This whole games favors speed more and more.

Edited by Sarlic, 01 October 2015 - 12:11 AM.