391 replies to this topic

[xX PUG Xx]

Will9761, on 03 October 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Personally, I am glad that I bought this pack. For me it is for pure nostalgia and appreciation for this game. I rarely talk about stuff like this but it gets annoying really quickly. Every single time I look at a thread talking about a Mech Pack or a countdown, I always see ingrates say some stupid crap like, " I won't buy this because: it doesn't follow the classic art design, until I see more content, because I have a grudge with PGI, or yadda yadda yadda". For people who don't want to get these packs due to things like, income reasons, taking a break spending, or budgeting I will not fault anyone.

However, for people who refuse to buy these Unseen packs (or anyone other for that matter) for excuses, all I have to say is:

1. "These Mechs Pack look ugly, I want the classic unseen art now.":
If PGI decided to go ahead and bring back the classic art, Harmony Gold would bite'em in the balls. I understand that Catalyst released their own art of the "classic" Marauder and Warhammer, but here remember the fate of MW5.

2. "Wow more mechs instead of content, this mech is going to be D.O.A.":
If you do not like the pack, then don't buy it. Look at the F.A.Q. and see when the mechs will come out for MC and C-bills. No one is forcing you to buy them, so I don't know why you feel it necessary to tell everyone that. As for the D.O.A comment, anyone who berates a mech as being D.O.A before they come out is an idiot. I've seen most skilled players turn bad mechs into masterpieces and I would laugh at anyone who got beaten by a "D.O.A" mech.

3. "There is no content coming.":
Look at the Monthly Roadmaps, Weekend Updates, and Instagram post, they are showing/telling you what is being added to the game currently. I wish we could have more cool stuff too, but we have to be patient.

4. "I will not support PGI by spending anymore money!":
Even if you are boycotting PGI and saying that your are not going to support them, you are still giving support by playing this game. All you are really giving them are numbers and statistics on activity on that note.

So for the ingrate forum dwellers, shut up and enjoy what you have.

I'm not going to take your post personally, although it could be construed as a slight on my previous posts in this thread.

For those reading through this and seeing negative posts I want to restate one thing. I have supported this game from early August 2012 with real life, hard cash for every package that has been suggested. Until now there has been no hesitation, the game has been fun and the combat has been entertaining. HOWEVER, when I have 200+ 'Mechs in my 'Mechbay with another dozen or so still to be delivered, I struggle to justify throwing another £30-40 into the pot, when there is a distinct lack of depth/reason to use them.

I understand that a Town Hall has been mentioned on Twitter regarding a Community Warfare update (Twitter comments: another thing that annoys me, use your own website please). That's great, if PGI/Russ announces CW will have X,Y,Z by Christmas or that A,B,C,D,E is going to take to January but the development is expensive; I would buy (another) Top Tier 'Mech pack and say "Keep going". However at the moment there is a giant limbo in the place where Community / Faction Warfare should have been.

The argument that "80-85% of the playerbase don't play it,so they don't spend resources on it" is a circular argument. If they spent the resources on it and made it worthwhile, those numbers would flip. So the question then becomes "Does the majority of the playerbase want to continue playing shallow, meaningless, grindfest matches, that have no more immersion than watching a tumble drier? Or do WE want to play in a fully immersive, fleshed out, living and breathing interpretation of the BattleTech universe? PGI, as a developer, CAN do it; if WE as the Community and playerbase show that is what we want.

I WANT to keep supporting PGI, I WANT to spend my hard earned real money on their product, I WANT them to give me reason to keep doing so. If Russ was to PM me and say "We have a really cool rework of the whole Faction Warfare system but we need people like you to keep supporting us to make it happen" (I'm not important or egotistical enough to believe this would happen ) or there was an Armchair post to appear today with a list of what they have in the works, I would instantly purchase the top Warhammer and Hero package. I may even buy one for my second account and double up on my promise.

At the end of the day, everyone has their limit and after 3+ years of giving and enjoying, I am at mine for now.

One last thing, KUDOS to Russ and PGI for bringing out the Unseen 'Mechs. Both of them are cool and very well done, I appreciate the risk that they must have represented to the business and applaud you for making the stand.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 04 October 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Will9761]

xX PUG Xx, on 03 October 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

I'm not going to take your post personally, although it could be construed as a slight on my previous posts in this thread.

For those reading through this and seeing negative posts I want to restate one thing. I have supported this take from early August 2012 with real life, hard cash for every package that has been suggested. Until now there has been no hesitation, the game has been fun and the combat has been entertaining. HOWEVER, when I have 200+ 'Mechs in my 'Mechbay with another dozen or so still to be delivered, I struggle to justify throwing another £30-40 into the pot, when there is a distinct lack of depth/reason to use them.

I understand that a Tiwn Hall has been mentioned on Twitter regarding a Community Warfare update (Twitter comments: another thing that annoys me, use your own website please). That's great, if PGI/Russ announces CW will have X,Y,Z by Christmas or that A,B,C,D,E is going to take to January but the development is exoensive; I would buy (another) Top Tier 'Mech pack and say "Keep going". However at the moment there is a giant limbo in the place where Community / Faction Warfare should have been.

The arguement that "80-85% of the playerbase don't play it,so they don't spend resources on it" is a circular arguement. If they spent the resources on it and made it worthwhile, those numbers would flip. So the question then becomes "Does the majority of the playerbase want to continue playing shallow, meaningless, grindfest matches, that have no more immersion than watching a tumble drier? Or do WE want to play in a fully immersive, fleshed out, living and breathing interpretation of the BattleTech universe? PGI, as a developer, CAN do it; if WE as the Community and playerbase show that is what we want.

I WANT to keep supporting PGI, I WANT to spend my hard earned real money on their product, I WANT them to give me reason to keep doing so. If Russ was to PM me and say "We have a really cool rework of the whole Faction Warfare system but we need people like you to keep supporting us to make it happen" (I'm not important or egotistical enough to believe this would happen ) or there was an Armchair post to appear today with a list of what they have in the works, I would instantly purchaese the top Warhammer and Hero package. I may even buy one for my second account and double up on my promise.

At the end of the day, everyone has their limit and after 3+ years of giving and enjoying, I am at mine for now.

One last thing, KUDOS to Russ and PGI for bringing out the Unseen 'Mechs. Both of them are cool and very well done, I appreciate the risk that they must have represented to the business and applaude you for making the stand.

This post was not meant to take a shot at you or anyone alike, as I said if you can't or won't spend money due to good reasons like budgeting issues, a lack of disposable income or swearing off purchases, I won't criticize people for those reasons. It's the ungrateful forumwarriors with the entitled attitudes who keep whining and complaining with excuses despite the progress we are having.

But I agree, I am happy with the unseen mechs classic or no, I feel good buying the Warhammer regardless.

Edited by Will9761, 03 October 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[TheDevilsIncarnate]

xX PUG Xx, on 03 October 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

-Snip-

Everything I've been saying and more. You took the words out of my mouth, and I agree that if I saw any amount of progress, I would hop on the whammy train so fast it wouldn't be funny. As it is, looks like I might potentially get my whammy fix from Battletech once it finishes in a couple years. Until then, it's stompy mechs doing the stompy nascar, and CW where I drop with mah laser boat and rinse and repeat.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

We have the same problem in WarThunder. All those with a high and mighty entitlement complex really need to leave or sit down and grow up. PGI is a business that needs to play its employees. As such they can charge what ever they wish for anything they wish. Given the smaller player base of this game prices will be higher to sustain the business. Prices go up and costs go up, programmers salaries go up especially if they are good enough to attract the attention of other companies who may try to head hunt them. So retaining staff costs more. Then prices need to go up.
If you have issue with it, leave. Failing that, don't buy it but also don't cry when the game fades to nothing and the doors are closed. Option 3, go get upskilled and program you own game. who knows, maybe your Warhammer will be cheaper and better. Anythings possible.

Edited by Keira RAVEN McKenna, 03 October 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Navid A1, on 03 October 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

I don't think you see my point. I want them... every BT fan out there wants them...i got the collector MAD and 20$ WHM... But at the same time, you know they are ripping you off!.... milking the nostalgia dry! you could get more with 20$ for previous IS packs.
Am i not allowed to say that?

>buys warhammer
>complains that pgi is milking nostalgia

Hah ha ha holy **** dude.

[Blockpirat]

The basic problem indeed is that we have too many Mechs and not enough gameplay variety.

When I look at my stable of Mechs I literally see hundreds of machines, dozens of which I haven't even played yet, despite playing MWO daily (while games like GTA V are collecting dusk).

Every Mastery pack, every single hero, every pre-order pack (except for Founders and Phoenix), even a Gold Mech!

And there are so many more pre-ordered Mechs that arrive in the next few months. All the Loyalty Mechs, Resistance 2, IIC pack, Marauder,...

I had been perfectly willing to throw my disposable income at PGI in the past. I started playing in August 2014 and it was an exciting time, with IGP leaving, Community Warfare arriving and increasing commmunication between the developers and the community. So I bought all the content listed above.

Don't get me wrong: there are still great things happening: the Tutorial, the new Maps (although I have the feeling that more time and care should have been spent on their gameplay, not just on visuals...)

So, while I still enjoy playing the game (and do so daily), something has changed with the arrival of the Warhammer. A nagging feeling that I am wasting my money is getting stronger. And where a few weeks ago I would immediately have clicked on "Purchase" I am now actually holding out on spending any more of my money on new Mechs.

It's not that I don't appreciate PGI for bringing back the unseens. It's not that the Mech's design is disappointing - far from it! But I feel burnt out from buying Mechs which I am probably never even going to play despite all the time I sink into this game.

In short: Peak Mech has been reached.
At least for me. I don't know how you out there feel about it. I would certainly love to hear from you about this issue.

I would still love to support PGI financially, buy cool new things that make the game more interesting.
Additional Mechs, however, are no longer giving me any further enjoyment of the game.

Some things that I would appreciate and am hoping for:

• a Twitch townhall that simply consists of interaction between PGI and their players (maybe PGI feels that they have to suprise their fans during each townhall meeting by announcing a new Mech pack - but doing so has given me the feeling that these townhalls are less about honest communication and more about getting a new influx of money into the company)
  
• gamemode variety
  
• additions to CW that make it feel more immersive (every day I read the Battle Reports on Outreach HPG - and I honestly couldn't care less that the Clans have completely surrounded Terra. After all, why should I? The colour of dots on the maps is meaningless in the current implementation of CW)
  
• a Public Test Server session of balance changes that actually make sense and with precise communication of what is to be tested (also, who had the brilliant idea to run the last test session in parallel to a double XP event? Despite spending more than two hours in queue I didn't even get a single PTS match)

TL;DR: I'm a whale and own too many Mechs I'll never play. Each new pack feels more like a cash grab and contributes nothing new to the actual gameplay. Won't buy Warhammer. Please, PGI, make the game feel fresh!

[PFC Carsten]

Will9761, on 03 October 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

However, for people who refuse to buy these Unseen packs (or any other pack for that matter) for excuses, all I have to say is:
1. "These Mechs look ugly, I want the classic unseen art now.":
2. "Wow more mechs instead of content, this mech is going to be D.O.A.":
3. "There is no content coming.":
4. "I will not support PGI by spending anymore money!":
So for the ingrate forum dwellers, shut up and enjoy what you have.

I for one am glad that there is such a thing as free speech and I won't ask anyone with an opinion to shut up just because it does not fit mine.

Just think - people have different priorities - while some are happy getting new unseen mechs on a bi-monthly basis, others might want to see improvements to core gameplay while other rather have new and exciting maps.

When only people who are happy with option #1 (new mechs) are applauding in the forum, PGI will follow that way in order to generate cash, driving the other groups spending money and thus funding the game for everyone as well slowly away from MWO.

Feedback is valuable and necessary.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 04 October 2015 - 04:06 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Valkyrie Vewas, on 02 October 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

Its funny we are getting a mech that was shown in the MechWarrior online trailer back almost 3 years ago now lol

And it's funny that I finally get to pilot the mech on cover of the boxed set I got some three decades ago and been asking for here since early beta.

[Will9761]

PFC Carsten, on 04 October 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

I for one am glad that there is such a thing as free speech and I won't ask anyone with an opinion to shut up just because it does not fit mine.

Just think - people have different priorities - while some are happy getting new unseen mechs on a bi-monthly basis, others might want to see improvements to core gameplay while other rather have new and exciting maps.

When only people who are happy with option #1 (new mechs) are applauding in the forum, PGI will follow that way in order to generate cash, driving the other groups spending money and thus funding the game for everyone as well slowly away from MWO.

Feedback is valuable and necessary.

PFC Carsten, before you cut out my reply making me a bad guy, actually read it instead of blindly assuming that I am putting down others. This was called out people who were still criticizing PGI despite the good progress they are making. I even stated reasons for those response. This people are very toxic. So next time, read up closely before you attack someone else.

Edited by Will9761, 04 October 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[Jragonsoul]

Will9761, on 04 October 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

PFC Carsten, before you cut out my reply making me a bad guy, actually read it instead of blindly assuming that I am putting down others. This was called out people who were still criticizing PGI despite the good progress they are making. I even stated reasons for those response. This people are very toxic. So next time, read up closely before you attack someone else.

There was no attack there. There is literally not one single comment besides "I won't ask anyone with an opinion to shut up just because it does not fit mine." that could be taken as even passively aggressive snarking (Which that's even a stretch TBH.) You DID actually say "So for the ingrate forum dwellers, shut up and enjoy what you have." so that sounds like you're putting down those "ingrate forum dwellers".

[Will9761]

Jragonsoul, on 04 October 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

There was no attack there. There is literally not one single comment besides "I won't ask anyone with an opinion to shut up just because it does not fit mine." that could be taken as even passively aggressive snarking (Which that's even a stretch TBH.) You DID actually say "So for the ingrate forum dwellers, shut up and enjoy what you have." so that sounds like you're putting down those "ingrate forum dwellers".

And by "ingrate forum dwellers" , I was referring to the toxic and negative behavior that forumwarriors spew despite the positive progress that PGI has been making as of late. But it is wrong to accuse me that I am just putting down anyone I please. In my earlier post I also said, "For people who don't want to get these packs due to things like, income reasons, taking a break spending, or budgeting I will not fault anyone." That second part about swearing off spending could be if you just wanted the C-bill version, you've spent too much money on this game, or you didn't like the pricing that is fine. CFP blindly assumed that my post was out to get anyone who did not agree with me and he cut my responses of why I didn't like those excuses. Also I am not the kind of person to tear down anyone with a different opinion of mine. So if you if want to interpret that as me putting down everyone who doesn't agree with me, that is your problem, not mine.

And again the "ingrate forum dwellers" (i.e. trolls, forrumwarriors) are referring to people who have the attitude of entitlement and continue to say negative things regardless of the progress we have, not people who with different views than mine. People who like to go around badmouthing content in the forums. That is all.

These were negative responses and my own viewpoints on both the Unseen packs and the common insults I see on every page. I know that I came a bit aggressive on some of these points but, it gets incredibly bothersome when you hear the same exact stuff on every Annoucment Thread.

Will9761, on 03 October 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

1. "These Mechs look ugly, I want the classic unseen art now.":
If PGI decided to go ahead and bring back the classic art, Harmony Gold would bite'em in the balls. I understand that Catalyst released their own art of the "classic" Marauder and Warhammer, but here remember the fate of MW5.

2. "Wow more mechs instead of content, this mech is going to be D.O.A.":
If you do not like the pack, then don't buy it. Look at the F.A.Q. and see when the mechs will come out for MC and C-bills. No one is forcing you to buy them, so I don't know why you feel it necessary to tell everyone that. As for the D.O.A comment, anyone who berates a mech as being D.O.A before they come out is an idiot. I've seen most skilled players turn bad mechs into masterpieces and I would laugh at anyone who got beaten by a "D.O.A" mech.

3. "There is no content coming.":
Look at the Monthly Roadmaps, Weekend Updates, and Instagram post, they are showing/telling you what is being added to the game currently. I wish we could have more cool stuff too, but we have to be patient.

4. "I will not support PGI by spending anymore money!":
Even if you are boycotting PGI and saying that your are not going to support them, you are still giving support by playing this game. So you are really giving them are numbers and statistics (if not feedback) on activity.

Edited by Will9761, 04 October 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[Jragonsoul]

Will9761, on 04 October 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

And by "ingrate forum dwellers" , I was referring to the toxic and negative behavior that forumwarriors spew despite the positive progress that PGI has been making as of late. But it is wrong to accuse me that I am just putting down anyone I please. In my earlier post I also said, "For people who don't want to get these packs due to things like, income reasons, taking a break spending, or budgeting I will not fault anyone." That second part about swearing off spending could be if you just wanted the C-bill version, you've spent too much money on this game, or you didn't like the pricing that is fine. CFP blindly assumed that my post was out to get anyone who did not agree with me and he cut my responses of why I didn't like those excuses. Also I am not the kind of person to tear down anyone with a different opinion of mine.

Will, PFC only stated they were glad there was free speech and you telling people to shut up (no matter how valid you think your reasons are) was something they wouldn't do. We are dragging you through the street or calling for your blood. Chill.

Will9761, on 04 October 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

So if you if want to interpret that as me putting down everyone who doesn't agree with me, that is your problem, not mine.

I was quoting you, because you were the one ACTUALLY saying you were being attacked, as read here "So next time, read up closely before you attack someone else." When in reality PFC did not attack you, you attacked "ingrate forum dwellers"

Will9761, on 04 October 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

And again for the ingrate forum dwellers, it is referring to those people who have the attitude of entitlement and continue to say negative things regardless of the progress we have, not people who with different views than mine. That is all.

You might think there's been progress but a lot of people don't. This game is (with the exception of CW and a different UI) VERY similar to what it was in closed beta. They have quirks (which are getting redone/nerfed), more servers and maps (This is again excluding CW on this point, mostly due to people not playing it and because it's just deathmatch with respawns and slight changes.) which is great but what about new game modes, fixes for things that CONTINUE to be broken (how can they not allow you to use a toggle for tag lasers still?) and a slew of other issues. People want to be heard and PGI is hard of hearing. I am not saying that all of the stuff on the forums needs to be implemented in game. I am saying that your version of progress if different than mine and I don't see all this progress you keep going on about.

[Grayson Sortek]

Jragonsoul, on 04 October 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

... I am saying that your version of progress if different than mine and I don't see all this progress you keep going on about.

Agreed. I'm not sure what this person is referring to with "all of this progress".

As for him telling people to "shut up" it's exactly what you don't want to do in the entertainment business. You do not want to appear uncooperative with your consumer base. Look up Total Biscuit's views on how the game industry should NOT be anti-consumer. I for one am a marketing manager, and I am responsible for websites, product literature, organizing trade shows, product demos, etc. If I didn't listen to customer feedback and refused to adjust accordingly, then my company would be out of business.

Now I know that I shouldn't be having a panic attack about every single complaint, because it is true that you can't please everyone. However, when your product has grown stagnant and there are throngs of people trying to tell you that... You should probably listen up. PGI: I don't want your company to go out of business, but I really do want you to make a better product and fulfill some of those promises that you've made.

Just as a side note to Will... Sometimes I wish I had customers as devoted as you to defend my company. However, it would deafen me from getting the critical feedback that I need for us to grow. We are adults, we should be able to handle the criticism and feedback if it helps us make a better product and better experience.

[Will9761]

Well Jragonsoul we can agree on one, we do like the pack.

I admit that I was acting a tad bit overreactive. It's just whenever I see people spew negative words on the Threads it gets demoralizing. Apologies to you and CFP I just want to remain positive and optimistic. I understand that MWO still needs to heal, but the negativity of these forums sometimes eat away at you.

Edited by Will9761, 04 October 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[Grayson Sortek]

Will9761, on 04 October 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Well Jragonsoul we can agree on one, we do like the pack.

I admit that I was acting a tad bit overreactive. It's just whenever I see people spew negative words on the Threads it gets demoralizing. Apologies to you and CFP I just want to remain positive and optimistic. I understand that MWO still needs to heal, but the negativity of these forums sometimes eat away at you.

Totally understandable. I think that those of us who do have criticism need to remember to express it in a positive and constructive way and not let our frustration change that. I think we all want to see Battletech and Mechwarrior continue on, and become something great again.

I agree about the pack, it's awesome, and it's killing me not to get it... but I have to let PGI know that as a consumer I'm not going to keep giving them money for more mechpacks.

<o

[NocturnalBeast]

PFC Carsten, on 04 October 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

I for one am glad that there is such a thing as free speech and I won't ask anyone with an opinion to shut up just because it does not fit mine.

You do realize that the US Constitution does not extend to Canada where this forum is hosted? Also, free speech is not guaranteed on a privately owned / operated forum (you agreed to abide by the TOS when you created your account).

[Ascheriit Davion]

Varvar86, on 01 October 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

TAKE IT ALL!!!!!

I second (or whatever number already existed lol) this

Purchased.....now just need time machine to fast forward to January 16

[Navid A1]

Will,... not all "ingrate forum dwellers" were like that from the start... if they were they would not have spent hundreds on this game.
I bet you that those are the ones that really want MWO to be a vastly successful title.

You say people are spreading negativity "despite all the progress". Well i can say that most of it is just progress in your opinion.
I know there has been progress on some aspects... but it was more like fixing broken things rather than actual progress.
Now, there has been progress, there is no denying that... I for one am thankful for all the consideration Russ, PGI animator and texture/concept artists have shown to my suggestions in PMs... a pitiful forum dweller nobody


"Toxic people" are not the demoralizing element.. let me give you some actual demoralizing examples:

- when russ is asked about LB/AC ammo switch and he answers that its impossible because former programmer has left the company. (makes you wonder what else is impossible... really confidence inspiring)
- when you ask pgi about the vastly popular 2 year old idea of making the first 10 double heatsinks truedubs, and they say they are hearing it for the first time, (and there is no follow up after a long time).
- paulconomy
- minimal viable product
- a single game mode/tactic for more than 3 years.!
- you remember the island?


so please, when you see toxic negativity, just ignore it. it is not directed to you, so it is perfectly fine if you choose not to answer. Because when people think it is their duty to react to the negativity... it is going to spread from a single post to 4 pages.
However, when you see hundreds of threads full of negativity... you know something is wrong.

Edited by Navid A1, 04 October 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Will9761]

Yeah it was just a rant I wanted to get off my chest, I know their are good people who go that way, but their are those who want to jump on that bandwagon for fun and it is growing like a cancer. But I don't want to talk about this subject anymore, I already made amends about the matter privately.

Thank you for the kind words though.

[MADUSMC]

The Warhammer was one of my favorite mechs when playing Battletech back in the day. I do kind of miss the unseen version though. This one does look pretty good though.