200 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Lordhammer, on 07 October 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Thats the thing though neither mech has dragon level protrusion. It way smaller than it should be so as long as you keep at range you are at advantage. I dont think size should come in to the game as a balancing aspect that would be both stupid and unreliable.

Well its a problem. The trebuchet, centurion, vindicator, dragon, grasshopper, Ice Ferret, Nova, Summoner, and of course, the Awesome, are all MASSIVELY oversized and suffer greatly because of it. Oversized means easier to hit. If your mech is the size of a barn door it pretty much writes it off. All of the mechs I just listed are usually considered useless or near useless by anyone who actually knows how to play this game.

There's a good reason for it.

This is why I get mad when you say the crab is too small. If it was any bigger, it'd be useless. I paid money for the resistance pack and can i not at least have one good mech out of a pack of mediocrity without general discussion mouthbreathers screaming bloody murder?

Edited by pbiggz, 07 October 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[Livewyr]

pbiggz, on 07 October 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

I paid money for the resistance pack and can i not at least have one good mech out of a pack of mediocrity without general discussion mouthbreathers screaming bloody murder?

I paid money for Invasions 1, 2, and 3. Why do I get the Massive 50 tonner and you get the the 50 ton light mech?

[LordMelvin]

Kiiyor, on 06 October 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

It's hitboxed like a Stalker though.

Frontal silouhette isn't everything. Hit it from the sides and you can't not hit ST's.

I don't think it's too small at all. Mediums are in a tough place compared to lights, heavies and assaults. I think the size of the crab is quite nice.

My emphasis in bold. I played a couple games last night, almost all of the CT cored. One game I got hit from a Cauldron Born on my 5 o'clock position and he STILL front CT cored me.

[pbiggz]

Livewyr, on 07 October 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

I paid money for Invasions 1, 2, and 3. Why do I get the Massive 50 tonner and you get the the 50 ton light mech?

See you get the point. The last few packs have had some of the coolest mechs in battletech and the ONLY ONES that perform are the hellbringer, Cauldron Born, Artic Cheetah, and maybe the enforcer and black knight, MAYBE.

[Baba Yogi]

pbiggz, on 07 October 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

This is quite simple so do your best to get it through your dense steiner brain.

IT IS NOT TOO SMALL

OTHER MEDIUMS ARE TOO BIG

MAKE OTHER MEDIUMS SMALLER AND THEN THE CRAB WONT BE TOO SMALL

Really now? I think their size is just fine, and most ppl would say the same apart from oddities like nova. I mean when i get close to a heavy mech with any medium difference is very obvious. Same goes to lights too. I use enforcer/cent/hunchy btw. If you dont believe that you are just bs'ing or biased. Simple as that.

[Water Bear]

pbiggz, on 07 October 2015 - 05:36 AM, said:

Seriously, people ***** (and rightly so) about how PGI can't make a good mech for ****, then the moment they make a good mech GD comes out of its hole and starts crying OP. This is psychotic and you know it.

When you say "good" you mean "gives me an advantage over an equally skilled opponent."

Most people call that unfair, especially when the """good""" mech is available for cash only.

Anyway I don't think the Crab is unfair in any way; If it weren't so small, as everyone is saying, it would be utter poo. Its side torsos are too easy to hit, its hardpoints are poor, and anyway when was the last time a 50 tonner with 5E hardpoints scared anyone? If it was really threatening then my 5E trebuchet, which has some pretty strong E quirks, wouldn't be tier 11 quality.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Livewyr, on 07 October 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

I paid money for Invasions 1, 2, and 3. Why do I get the Massive 50 tonner and you get the the 50 ton light mech?

Could the Crab be a tiny bit bigger, sure. Is it worth changing? No. It is basically close enough to where we need to pour over screenshots and videos to look for supporting evidence for either argument. basically it is so close, that it generally should be considered ok IMO.

Now, has PGI scaled other mech too big? Oh yes they have for sure (that poor poor Nova).

Thing is, I wouldn't make an argument to enlarge the Crab because a Nova is too large. Also, even though I think the Crab should be left as is, I'm still not a fan of the argument..."other medium mech's are too big so this one should be small to make up for that". Really, mechs should be rather close in size per class. Making one small vs oversized mediums still gives an unfair advantage to the smaller medium (even if in reality it is more fairly scaled for it's class).

All that mouthfull being said...

1. Please look at the entire mech and not just height. The Crab is wider than a Cicada with it's arms, and longer from the side. Although face tanking with a Crab present a smaller target, torso twisting or bugging-out presents a larger target and exposes a lot of the side torso of a mech probably running an XL engine.

2. Humanoid mechs and aircraft style torso mechs don't carry the same shape. A humanoid torso will be tall and skinny from all angles where as an aircraft style will be shorter by design, but longer and maybe even wider in some cases. It's mass is just distributed differently which gives the mech it's own pros and cons vs a humanoid design.

Just please try and look at it from all sides (literally and figuratively).

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 07 October 2015 - 06:27 AM.

[Baba Yogi]

pbiggz, on 07 October 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

Well its a problem. The trebuchet, centurion, vindicator, dragon, grasshopper, Ice Ferret, Nova, Summoner, and of course, the Awesome, are all MASSIVELY oversized and suffer greatly because of it. Oversized means easier to hit. If your mech is the size of a barn door it pretty much writes it off. All of the mechs I just listed are usually considered useless or near useless by anyone who actually knows how to play this game.

There's a good reason for it.

This is why I get mad when you say the crab is too small. If it was any bigger, it'd be useless. I paid money for the resistance pack and can i not at least have one good mech out of a pack of mediocrity without general discussion mouthbreathers screaming bloody murder?

Nope it needs to be bigger dude. And seriously you added cent/vindi/ghopper to that list? Uhuh. Ghopper is damn good mech, tall but thinner tbolt, ppl miss shots between limbs all the time just as cent.( imo only problem it has is the very limited energy hardpoints and limited engine speed). I understand you feel entitled to a "good" mech since you payed money but check MeiSoo's video, that shows how big of a difference there is. As long as you dont brawl with it or be stupid and get flanked, protrusion has NO effect on your gameplay, and ye i know that i used to pilot dragons exclusively until midway to open beta.

[pbiggz]

Lordhammer, on 07 October 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

Really now? I think their size is just fine, and most ppl would say the same apart from oddities like nova. I mean when i get close to a heavy mech with any medium difference is very obvious. Same goes to lights too. I use enforcer/cent/hunchy btw. If you dont believe that you are just bs'ing or biased. Simple as that.

You think medium mechs are sized fine? Some of them are taller than heavies. It's been WIDELY accepted that mediums are across the board too big.

Water Bear, on 07 October 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

When you say "good" you mean "gives me an advantage over an equally skilled opponent."

Most people call that unfair, especially when the """good""" mech is available for cash only.

Anyway I don't think the Crab is unfair in any way; If it weren't so small, as everyone is saying, it would be utter poo. Its side torsos are too easy to hit, its hardpoints are poor, and anyway when was the last time a 50 tonner with 5E hardpoints scared anyone? If it was really threatening then my 5E trebuchet, which has some pretty strong E quirks, wouldn't be tier 11 quality.

You just said it yourself. The mech has clear advantages and disadvantages so its actually pretty much where it should be. The mechs that aren't "good" are the ones that have clear disadvantages and don't offer any real advantages to compensate. The disadvantages for the crab are limited hardpoints and tonnage, the advantages are good hitboxes, speed and smaller size

[Baba Yogi]

MeiSooHaityu, on 07 October 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Could the Crab be a tiny bit bigger, sure. Is it worth changing? No. It is basically close enough to where we need to pour over screenshots and videos to look for supporting evidence for either argument. basically it is so close, that it generally should be considered ok IMO.

Now, has PGI scaled other mech too big? Oh yes they have for sure (that poor poor Nova).

Thing is, I wouldn't make an argument to enlarge the Crab because a Nova is too large. Also, even though I think the Crab should be left as is, I'm still not a fan of the argument..."other medium mech's are too big so this one should be small to make up for that". Really, mechs should be rather close in size per class. Making one small vs oversized mediums still gives an unfair advantage to the smaller medium (even if in reality it is more fairly scaled for it's class).

All that mouthfull being said...

1. Please look at the entire mech and not just height. The Crab is wider than a Cicada with it's arms, and longer from the side. Although face tanking with a Crab present a smaller target, torso twisting or bugging-out presents a larger target and exposes a lot of the side torso of a mech probably running an XL engine.

2. Humanoid mechs and aircraft style torso mechs don't carry the same shape. A humanoid torso will be tall and skinny from all angles where as an aircraft style will be shorter by design, but longer and maybe even wider in some cases. It's mass is just distributed differently which gives the mech it's own pros and cons vs a humanoid design.

Just please try and look at it from all sides (literally and figuratively).

Tbh, i dont give a damn if they change it, it fits my favorite tonnage (will be right next to my cent/enf/hunchy) and will most likely buy it when it comes to cbills but it doesnt change the fact its too small on front profile. People do say that big gut more than makes up for it but you eliminate that weakness just by playing at different position. It is what it is.

[Water Bear]

Lordhammer, on 07 October 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Nope it needs to be bigger dude. And seriously you added cent/vindi/ghopper to that list? Uhuh. Ghopper is damn good mech, tall but thinner tbolt, ppl miss shots between limbs all the time just as cent.( imo only problem it has is the very limited energy hardpoints and limited engine speed). I understand you feel entitled to a "good" mech since you payed money but check MeiSoo's video, that shows how big of a difference there is. As long as you dont brawl with it or be stupid and get flanked, protrusion has NO effect on your gameplay, and ye i know that i used to pilot dragons exclusively until midway to open beta.

The grasshopper has the same hardpoints as a Tbolt but lacks almost all of the energy quirks. An 8 mplas Hopper will be at 50-60% heat after an alpha; A Tbolt with 7 will be at about 35%. As much as I enjoy my Hoppers, I'm not convinced they're in the same category as the Tbolt.

[pbiggz]

Lordhammer, on 07 October 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Nope it needs to be bigger dude. And seriously you added cent/vindi/ghopper to that list? Uhuh. Ghopper is damn good mech, tall but thinner tbolt, ppl miss shots between limbs all the time just as cent.( imo only problem it has is the very limited energy hardpoints and limited engine speed). I understand you feel entitled to a "good" mech since you payed money but check MeiSoo's video, that shows how big of a difference there is. As long as you dont brawl with it or be stupid and get flanked, protrusion has NO effect on your gameplay, and ye i know that i used to pilot dragons exclusively until midway to open beta.

You do understand that a complete rescaling of the game is coming next year, at which point ALL the offending mechs I just mentioned will be scaled down.

If you are obsessed with old people sized font and giant inflatable mechs then prepare to be disappointed. The days of making medium mechs the size of the state of wyoming are coming to an end I hope, and I hope your voice and anyone else of a like mind wont be loud enough to sway PGI's course away from that.

Like, this isn't my opinion, its accepted fact and at the very least, MOST people accept it.

[Livewyr]

Yeah.. NO. It is officially much too small.


I consider the Shadowcat to be roughly a good size. This is a close up view of the Crab from my Shadowcat cockpit.

Note that the cockpit is looking *down* (you can see by the elevation indicator on the either side of the crosshair)

[Baba Yogi]

pbiggz, on 07 October 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

You think medium mechs are sized fine? Some of them are taller than heavies. It's been WIDELY accepted that mediums are across the board too big.

Check the sizes on gamestore instead of arguing. I picked THE tallest medium trebuchet (well same as kintaro), which also has the tinnest side profile but that really useless in the game, and compared it to every single heavy, only ebon had smaller profile. Rest of the mediums show clear difference in weight class. Just do it instead of arguing, you'll see. Then compare those mediums to the crab if you have it in inventory. Your selected opinion doesnt make it a fact mate.

Water Bear, on 07 October 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

The grasshopper has the same hardpoints as a Tbolt but lacks almost all of the energy quirks. An 8 mplas Hopper will be at 50-60% heat after an alpha; A Tbolt with 7 will be at about 35%. As much as I enjoy my Hoppers, I'm not convinced they're in the same category as the Tbolt.

Well yea, its not tbolt but still makes a damn good mech. I like jumpers personally ^^

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Livewyr, on 07 October 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

Yeah.. NO. It is officially much too small. I consider the Shadowcat to be roughly a good size. This is a close up view of the Crab from my Shadowcat cockpit. Note that the cockpit is looking *down* (you can see by the elevation indicator on the either side of the crosshair)

So clanners do not admit that they have some OP (ach im looking to you, and tbr to you also) mechs. They must BITCHING about one IS solid mech we got....

Edited by Titannium, 07 October 2015 - 06:47 AM.

[Baba Yogi]

pbiggz, on 07 October 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

Like, this isn't my opinion, its accepted fact and at the very least, MOST people accept it.

As if you've individually asked everyone? Just because you've seen some ppl with same idea doesnt make them majority.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Lordhammer, on 07 October 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

Tbh, i dont give a damn if they change it, it fits my favorite tonnage (will be right next to my cent/enf/hunchy) and will most likely buy it when it comes to cbills but it doesnt change the fact its too small on front profile. People do say that big gut more than makes up for it but you eliminate that weakness just by playing at different position. It is what it is.

Just food for thought, isn't that the same for a lot of mechs (if not all of them)?

A Cicada for instance has higher mounted weapons (basically cockpit level) that makes it a good hill poker. The same could be said for the Hunchback and Shadow Hawk with their heavy hitting firepower up high. By playing a certain position, they can use terrain or buildings to hide a large portion of their torso from fire. Compound this with the Cicada's light mech speed and manuverability, hill humping and poking is quick and make it hard to hit. So, by playing a certain way, these mechs can hide their flaws or vulnerabilities.

Now the Crab's main weapons are low mounted. The arms hang far lower and the CT energy is at the bottom of the torso just above the hip. The only high mounted weapon is one head laser limited to a MPLaser or smaller. The Crab (in theory) has to expose more of it's small profile to fire it's main weapons. To that effect, maybe the mech should have a small forward profile to make up for it's low slung hardpoints and inability to hill hump/poke.

in any case, this game is all about knowing your mech and playing a position that helps eliminate it's weaknesses. that is part of being effective with any mech. That is a core part of the game really.

[pbiggz]

Lordhammer, on 07 October 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

As if you've individually asked everyone? Just because you've seen some ppl with same idea doesnt make them majority.

Iv played this game since closed beta and iv played with alot of people and not one of them ever told me they LIKE how big mediums are, but MANY told me how much they HATE how big mediums are.

[Water Bear]

Titannium, on 07 October 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

So clanners do not admit that they have some OP (ach im looking to you, and tbr to you also) mechs. They must BITCHING about one IS solid mech we got....

I hope no one is saying the Crab is OP. It's a 50 tonner with 5E. I haven't seen its quirks but unless they are god tier it will be mediocre at best.

[Ghogiel]

Bunch of slack jawed crabbabies around here