88 replies to this topic

[Loyalist]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I'm curious to see how trolling will be handled ingame and what you guys think should be done. This seems like a pretty competitive game, and not only that, with 12 huge mechs on the field, it seems like a single game can last for a pretty decent amount of time. With that, I'd hate to be an Awesome trying to snipe out enemies and an Atlas stands in front of me while I'm trying to aim or something like that. Or I'm the Atlas and receive 3 PPC blasts to the head from a "friendly" Awesome. There's even the fact of mic spamming, but I'm sure that one will easily be resolved with a mute function like most games.

The thing is that friendly fire seems the most danger here. It might not even be people who intentionally go in with the plan to troll people, but those kids who think they're amazing and do whatever they want, and the moment that you try to tell them what they're doing wrong and what they should be doing, they go crazy and just try to get you to lose. Even if there is a very simple kick player function, the reality is that a game as strategical as this, even one less player out of 12 could also mean a disaster for your team. With the game being F2P, it makes even Perma Banning after repeated offenses not that effective of a solution.

I remeber a particularly interesting system for dealing with TK trolls and Rambo nubs (ill just shoot through my team mates until they get the message) from PlanetSide. The game allowed friendly fire, to increase the gameplay challenge, but dealt with those who fire indiscriminately on anyone by adding friendly fire shots/kills to a penalty score. once the score reached a certain point, the griefer was penalised with slower rate of fire/damage reduction, longer respawn and eventually the inability to play for X amount of time.

I would personally like to see a system that pounds griefers to a pink slimy pulp once their Grief Score progresses from "oops, sorry mate" to "lol, im a turncoat" but the only true way to do it is to harm their ability to ruin the gaming experience. I suggest that a Grief Score system be put in place to automatically monitor griefing. A few mistake shots per round would be ignored but repeated "mistakes" would not go unpunished.

Loyalist.

[Bucannen85]

Bluten, on 08 July 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

We need friendly fire on and it's a big part of what makes a multiplayer like this good. You will need to actually AIM and be cautious with your shots. Most shooters don't feature friendly fire and it hurts their game as a result. You no longer have to aim or be mindful of AoEs; you can simply shoot wildly with no kind of drawback. I will admit no friendly fire is the "lazy" way to avoid having to police grieving or TKin but it doesn't make your game better. But it goes beyond laziness sometimes. TF2 for instance actually features abusing friendly fire just to detect spies. What I mean is everyone deliberately shoots allies to detect Spies because allies won't get hurt but Spies disguised as allies WILL get hurt. It's completely stupid. You'd never do that sort of thing IRL. "Are you spy? Hold on while I shoot you in the face to find out. Ok, you didn't get hurt, so you're really an ally."<--Stupid game.

Bluten, on 08 July 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

We don't really need the harshest of solutions here. Simply give us a block feature that prevents them from ever being matched on our team again and I'll be happy. If a player goes beyond occasional grieving and decides to devote his life to TKing then just delete his account. On League of Legends there is no friendly fire but they will still suspend and/or ban you for throwing too many games. You can also block people and they will almost never be matched with you again.(I've had it happen on occasion but 99% of the time you'll never see them on your team again)

BigJim, on 08 July 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

How about have FF cause damage to you too (less realistic, but harsh enough to stop you in your tracks), or automatically charge the shooter's account for the armour-repair of any team damage done.

I agree 100% with Bluten.
BigJim has a point with FF causing damage to you. I've played games like that before, it put an end to it pretty quick and made you shoot better. I've read a lot of ideas about paying for armour repairs. Any body know if you have to pay for repairs after a match or it's automatically fixed with out cost.

[Threedog1421]

Alot of you guys are pretty naive, there won't be any type of ban system for tk'ing. There isn't one game that I know of that has a BAN system with regards to public servers. Only people that will be banned are the wall hackers/aim botters. The only way they could implement such a thing is if they offered rented servers and said servers were admined. More than likely they'll just institute a blanket tk x of times and you'll get booted from the game your in. With FF on it's just a part of the game. People will just need to have thick skins.

Edited by Threedog1421, 08 July 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[William Rahn]

The main problem is that they can always make a new account, resetting the score and C-bills. Plus in case of inadvertent friendly fire/teamkill additional penalties will hurt the same team even more. A team-killed person could get a screen asking them, whether they wish to report an intentional teamkill affecting the offenders reputation/payout (to some degree - many people would just always report, but that is to be expected).

[Sythiss]

My biggest concern with FF balancing or banning or anything automatic is those people that do it to annoy others do need to shoot you to anger you then. They just need to keep stepping in YOUR way. Then when you accidental shoot them and If they are good at being buggers well you get the bans or cbill peniltys

[Adm Awesome]

Sythiss, on 08 July 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

My biggest concern with FF balancing or banning or anything automatic is those people that do it to annoy others do need to shoot you to anger you then. They just need to keep stepping in YOUR way. Then when you accidental shoot them and If they are good at being buggers well you get the bans or cbill peniltys

that is a really good point there that I didn't even think about. Trolls making you seem like the bad guy in the game, now that just looks horrible when you think about all the FF mechanics we've been discussing, imagine playing an awesome and you have to repair someones Jenner 100% because he purposely ran in front of you every time.

[Otto Cannon]

*Sigh* *spits tobacco* I remember the good ol' days when that sort of in-game tomfoolery was called griefing, and trolls were people who put up sometimes very cleverly thought out 'stupid' or controversial posts on forums to get people all stirred up. Seems like the word 'troll' these days just means anyone that acts like a **** in any way and in any situation. You young whippersnappers stop stealin' my language and messin' it all up now, y'hear?

[Insidious Johnson]

I'm saddened that this has nothing to do with forum trolling! Ok, it has been established that there is NO SUCH THING as TK'ing Paul. He's a designated laser magnet for everyone regardless of team. Everyone else is a case by case basis.

[Adm Awesome]

Otto Cannon, on 08 July 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

*Sigh* *spits tobacco* I remember the good ol' days when that sort of in-game tomfoolery was called griefing, and trolls were people who put up sometimes very cleverly thought out 'stupid' or controversial posts on forums to get people all stirred up. Seems like the word 'troll' these days just means anyone that acts like a **** in any way and in any situation. You young whippersnappers stop stealin' my language and messin' it all up now, y'hear?

Is it so wrong to mass the annoying people of the internet under one title? that way we can round them all up and keep good track of them.

[Otto Cannon]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Is it so wrong to mass the annoying people of the internet under one title? that way we can round them all up and keep good track of them.

Fair point, sonny, but in my day we gave 'em different names so's yer knew which type o' muppet you was dealin' with from the off.

*stops impersonating old timer before it gets too annoying*

[Vyviel]

The best part of this game for griefers is even the smallest mech can damage the biggest so a griefer just needs to keep creating new accounts and using the newbie mechs to shoot up his team mates till he gets banned.

Since even a light can take on an atlas this will be a big problem =\

Atleast in World of Tanks that newbie account will never see any of the high level matches for months.

Maybe we need to make the match maker to not match "new" accounts with veteran accounts. Say players with less than 100 matches played.

Edited by Vyviel, 08 July 2012 - 03:52 PM.

[l33tworks]

I agree about new account creation etc I think the only solution is to have an in game system.that detects excessive team shooting and stops you from firing your weapon. In addition to other deterrents.

[Erwiin]

Trolls? Burn them! Apparently they don't like fire.

[Hexenhammer]

Two functions.

Ignore and avoid.

Ignore. The player is silenced. It could complicate things if the ignored person is on your team.

Avoid. The player does not want to team up with or play against the avoided player.

[Lord Cochrane]

Threedog1421, on 08 July 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Alot of you guys are pretty naive, there won't be any type of ban system for tk'ing. There isn't one game that I know of that has a BAN system with regards to public servers. Only people that will be banned are the wall hackers/aim botters.

Check out the DayZ Arma2 mod I have seen guys globally banned for combat logging.

As for FF in MWO I think the easiest way to deal with it would be penalties on Cbill and XP rewards at the end of each match for FF violations.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

l33tworks, on 08 July 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Wow you don't see the huge danger in that type of system? You could simply use the block feature on anyone pitely anyone who isn't good or vice versa giving you a tactical advantage and opening up room for changing the balance of who gets allocated to your team and who u vs.

Then you will have people banning other players for reasons other than tking

Remember, if you ban EVERYONE, no one will be left to be on your team. With each ban you would slow your queue timer because you're reducing potential matches for games. So you go ahead and abuse that to the fullest if it suits you, but don't come back and complain when it takes you 2 hours to find a match.

Bucannen85, on 08 July 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I agree 100% with Bluten.
BigJim has a point with FF causing damage to you. I've played games like that before, it put an end to it pretty quick and made you shoot better. I've read a lot of ideas about paying for armour repairs. Any body know if you have to pay for repairs after a match or it's automatically fixed with out cost.

Besides, blowing up ally crybabies on our team will be one of the best things ever. I'll be able to say st fu and stop crying kid or I'm going to blow your Mech apart myself." Of course they won't listen and will just keep raging, thus I'll blow their Mech up. We might lose the match, but I'll feel better about it. I played League of Legends and was never able to just kill my own crybaby allies like I wished I could have.

Edited by Bluten, 08 July 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[BigJim]

Otto Cannon, on 08 July 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Seems like the word 'troll' these days just means anyone that acts like a **** in any way and in any situation. You young whippersnappers stop stealin' my language and messin' it all up now, y'hear?

IDD. Proper trolling is the highly intelligent application of extreme stupidity; It's an art-form which demands the highest levels of subtlety of it's practitioners.

A proper troll can bring more stupid to bear on a single point of space-time than any other force known to man, it's the only force we know of that can theoretically penetrate the hypothesised immovable object.

A well disciplined troll can shut down the most obstinate internet poster with a single lolcat more safely and efficiently than an army of academics posting clear, rational arguments a mile long.

Everyone else is is just a spammer, myself included.



*EDIT* Getting back on topic, totally agreed with Bluten, FF has to stay in; My guess is the devs will have a system in place to deal with griefers, but what it is I can't guess.
Personally I'm of the more liberal view, where the players in-game ostracise those who try such funny-business with kick-votes & the like, but then again I've spent most of my time in games where we're playing with a group who pretty much know each other, or know of each other & you get fewer randoms popping up.

*EDIT 2* This is the only way I can think of to deal with the new account dilemma, where players can just set up a new account each time they suffer from their griefishness.
Dealing with them right there, in-game because if you penalise someone's grief-account they can just set up another.

Edited by BigJim, 08 July 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Lord Cochrane, on 08 July 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

As for FF in MWO I think the easiest way to deal with it would be penalties on Cbill and XP rewards at the end of each match for FF violations.

We talk about FF violations and penalizing players for being jerks but how do we do it? What constitutes as a violation and what constitutes Joe ***** always being in my way when I am firing?

I'm all up for punishing FF trolls but defining a FF troll with code is a lot harder than it seems.

[Bearcut]

This is a tough topic:

In a game like this, there will be people who find it fun to troll. Luckily, these usually aren't your average player... but if you play enough, you'll run into them. It's also been stated that being down by even one mech in the beginning of the match can severely effect your chances of succeeding, but thats a whole other topic.

Anyway, alot of people here have come up with balances that are good in their own right; but the problem is, without a human intervention, the balances themselves can be a havoc. Accidents happen

One example: I was showing my old man BF2 a while back.... he jumped in a Black Hawk on the carrier, and the thing loaded up with him in the pilot seat. He didnt know how to fly, but couldn't move, so he decided to give it a shot. Fully loaded... he tilts back right into a jet taking off, kills the jet, the chopper spins around a kill a few people on deck, flips into the water, explodes, kills everyone in the thing. Next thing I know... BANNED FOR EXCESSIVE TEAM KILLING. Was that intentional? Of course not. Was it hilarious? Yes. But he wasn't being a troll. He was being a newb. If you ban newbs for being bad, you'll end up with what I call "Old Game Syndrome"... where the only players left are vets who just bash the crap out of a any new player, and anyone that comes in just hates the game and leaves, dwindling your player base.

How do you fix this?
Rank matching system.
New account - you start at low rank, matched against other low ranks... and your battles dont have an effect on the galaxy map. Once you get more XP in a faction your rank goes up (this has been mentioned), which should merit your skill increasing as well. Once you hit certain ranks, you can participate in more serious battles, and its assuming that the majority of players in these battles will also have similar amounts of experience. You start screwing up in these battles (Ragequitting, TKing, lots of Friendly Fire, pusillanimous conduct ie retreating to save your own hide), your rank goes down, and you go back to the non important theater. If its a mistake, itll take you one or two games to get your rank back. If its intentional... well, your not coming back then, because youll keep doing it.

This seems like the most fair and balanced way to deal with it IMO; and this apparently is the exactly way the devs have been mentioning.

Its also important that you don't punish without an explanation... because unintentional things happen. IE, if your Centurion player with the one AC/2 takes a hit because he DID NOTHING ALL GAME --- at least let him know that sitting in an out of the ways corner of the map and not hitting anything all game is the reason his rank was diminished.

[Blaze32]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

There's even the fact of mic spamming, but I'm sure that one will easily be resolved with a mute function like most games.

Devs said no in-game team mic in game as of now but you can set it up elsewhere they said that they will only have type chat (I think)...