83 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Eiki, on 08 October 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

This. I started mounting a BAP on my Hunchback. All those delicious ECM Disruption assists are delicious as are the tears of scouts who thought they would be invincible up until the point they start getting slammed by LRMs.

Asking people to sacrifice 1.5t of ammo for BAP is like asking the same people to use the R or J keys, just to much work.

Easier to just complain about ECM and keep the 1.5t of ammo.

Just going to get better with Role and Information warfare.

[TWIAFU]

Novakaine, on 09 October 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

Oh I forgot target decay modules.
Once again I use it on every LRM boat I own.
Cost me a small fortune.
My point is about 5-7 enemy ecm mechs in a match.
B.A.P and T.A.G don't mean J.A.C.K.

Cannot expect the solo queue to bring and utilize teamwork/group based equipment.

Your brawlers will not carry BAP.
Your ECM mechs will not cover/counter the group.
Your side will not use UAV.

Can't expect PUGs to drop like the HHoD guys do. One works together and other does not.

Want team cohesion and supporting of each other the only way to find that is in the Group queue or CW with members of your Unit.

With respect, your just wasting your breath in any attempt to get solo queue to behave like a team and work together.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Golden Vulf, on 08 October 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

You could probably drop the Artemis. It only works if you have direct line of sight, and I'm guessing that you were the last one killed because you were in the back waiting for target locks?

Also, you can bring your own Clan Active Probe, lulz.

Gods forbid someone bring a support mech and a support weapon to provide fire support. NO! You should be in the front with everyone else.

TWIAFU, on 09 October 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

Your brawlers will not carry BAP.
Your ECM mechs will not cover/counter the group.
Your side will not use UAV.

So... because theyre stupid. Thats all you had to say. Nova, you tier 3? Cause thatd make more sense since you can match up with tier 5

since tier 3 breaks the reason we even HAVE tiers

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 October 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[Ascaloth]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 08 October 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

But do this laser pointer really have to weight 1000kg?

It's not just a pointer, it's a reinforced device with a pointer, a rangefinder, target acquisition system, transmitter to link the info on the C3 network...
Do not forget Battletech was created in a time where industrial computers were huge and nobody knew we would have supercomputers so small we could hold it in our hands (like those new tablets, smartphones and ultrabooks). I bet they were still thinking "the bigger the better", and that's why a Clan Target Computer VII weights SEVEN TONS and is a big as a Gauss Rifle.

[Tapdancing Kerensky]

Considering how many LRM boaters just fire their missiles into hills or obstructions repeatedly because "I don't need LOS lol" I think we need more ECM.

Teach them to actually confirm line of fire themselves and stop wasting a player slot on a team.

People using lasers or AC's could care less about ECM. Seriously.

Edited by DancingShade, 09 October 2015 - 05:17 AM.

[Livewyr]

Well, clearly it's balanced, you just don't know how to work it!

Tell all your new team mates that they have to go back to the mechlab and install BAP on their mechs so you can use your weapons.
Tell one of your team mates to go back and put a Narc on their mech.
Bring a tag.
Point it at them and keep it trained on them.
Stand on your head.
Rub your belly.
Sing a song in Swahili
and
Pray to RNGsus for good measure.

Countering is easy.

[STEF_]

Golden Vulf, on 08 October 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

Active Probe extends your sensor range up to 1000m which happens to be the maximum range for LRMs.

Don't tell me you are so lucky to find enemies standing there for 6 seconds, or even 5...or even 4, just waiting for your missiles.

Because I never meet such "kind guys"...





..... oh, wait....

[JaxRiot]

I come back after a 4 month break and the ECM argument is still going on. Ahh its good to be home.

The short of it is to just not bring LRMs or Streaks. The abundance of ECM on the field will make it frustrating for you. Especially since multiple ECM bubble actually counter the equipment that is supposed to counter ECM.

BAP is great but 2 ECMs in range will actually counter 1 BAP

NARC is great but if a NARC'd target is under a friendly ECM bubble, the friendly ECM bubble cancels the NARC (or at least it used to).

TAG is great but it requires line of sight, a tag hit, and plus a lock before even one volley can be fired. Better off just bringing bang bangs and pew pews.

UAV is very helpful but it doesn't negate target lock hinderances. Is stationary. Only lasts 45 seconds. Can be destroyed by a whopping 10 points of damage. And costs 40,000 c-bills to use once a map, per map.

So for now its better to just not bring Streaks or LRMs unless you know for sure that every one on your team is packing BAPs or using their ECMs to counter the other ECMs. Its just not worth the frustration.

Although I read that there is supposed to be changes coming to ECM. Not sure what that will entail or when it will happen though.

Cheers

Jax

Edited by JaxRiot, 09 October 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[Siegegun]

I run LRM boats all the time and do not have these issues. I always take BAP/CAP, I never take a tag. I personally find tag a waste of a ton. With an energy slot being taken up, plus a nice "here I am" sign for the opposing team, I find it mostly worthless. Your mileage may vary.

My overall point is I do not have these issues, and I do not even use tag. I am tier 3 currently (done a lot of pokemech), moving to tier 2 VERY quickly, I play both solo and group que. I have taken top 10 and top 20 in a lot of the events and challenges using a medium missile boat.

I do think they should rebalance ECM again, but personally I do not have ECM issues often.

[Novakaine]

Sigh........... ECM is not the issue here.
When half the enemy team is equipped with ECM.
That's the problem.

[Siegegun]

I know Novakaine, I do not usually have issues when half the team has ECM. I am not saying it is easy, but I really do not have those issues. I almost always play mediums though, and I never go slower than 85-90 kph, so repositioning is not difficult, and I am usually constantly repositioning, perhaps that is why.

I was referring to the situation and scenario brought up, not just one guy has ECM on the enemy team. I barely ever get any games where there is no ECM or just two.

[Amsro]

Troutmonkey, on 08 October 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

Or better yet don't bring LRMs

Yep PGI has balance working as intended.

Just don't take;

LRMS
Machine Guns
Flamers
LBX10
SSRM2

wouldn't want a player to be bad with bad weapons...

Novakaine, on 09 October 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

Sigh........... ECM is not the issue here.
When half the enemy team is equipped with ECM.
That's the problem.

And why would everyone take ECM if it wasn't broken? Surely there are other good mechs besides the ECM ones.

[Hardin4188]

I recommend most builds use bap even if they aren't lrm boats. Also any lrm 15/20 boats should have at least bap. TAG is also very useful. Really more lights should have narc. The range is too short for narc on the missile boats themselves. Winning is a team effort and missile boats are useless when they can't target.

[Eiki]

Hardin4188, on 09 October 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

I recommend most builds use bap even if they aren't lrm boats. Also any lrm 15/20 boats should have at least bap. TAG is also very useful. Really more lights should have narc. The range is too short for narc on the missile boats themselves. Winning is a team effort and missile boats are useless when they can't target.

Builds that involve keeping some distance aren't that great with BAP. You want to be close to the enemy in order to jam ECM so it is best with brawlers.

[Hardin4188]

Eiki, on 09 October 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Builds that involve keeping some distance aren't that great with BAP. You want to be close to the enemy in order to jam ECM so it is best with brawlers.

It's been mentioned before, but it also increases sensor range and lock on speed.

[SkyHammyr]

Mmmm

Lurm-Tears.

[Madcap72]

Come to the tier 5 darkside bro! I think you've seen my 5x LRM5 Catapult do it's thing. Use your team as personal UAV's and reap the bennies!

[Eiki]

Hardin4188, on 09 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

It's been mentioned before, but it also increases sensor range and lock on speed.

Largely irrelevant for long-range types unless you are using LRMs a lot. Unlike those tank games you can see enemies at a distance without a spotter. Sure lock-on makes it easier to see where someone is weakest, but when using Direct-Fire weapons it all comes down to aim.

[wanderer]

Quote

and that's why a Clan Target Computer VII weights SEVEN TONS and is a big as a Gauss Rifle.

It isn't just the computer, but the advanced systems that let you take all that extra data and translate it to better aim,including weapon-end upgrades to the actual mechanics that aim your guns. That's the real reason why TCs in tabletop weigh more as you add more direct-fire weaponry.

In another Paul-comprehension failure, this is also why you can install a seven-ton TC system for a half-ton ER small laser and get the benefits you do, or a one-ton TC for a 12-ton Gauss and still have either one work perfectly in MWO- while neither would function properly in tabletop at all.

As for the OP, LRMs don't function at the top. Period. They're the only weapon that requires lock-ons at ranges where passive EECM (that is, Beagles) don't work, and in any case, stacked ECM can drown it out completely. It's not even a matter of "use other weapons with LRMs"- at range, if you're using other weapons, it's better to boat more of them vs. installing an unreliable LRM and losing firepower.

[DAYLEET]

If you want to LRM you need bap and tag, i dont care what you say about it. And ffs ditch target decay module and get something usefull like seismic and then youll see why bap and tag is good. Target decay module... stop shooting at stuff that you don't see or isnt slow as hell.