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Whats The Point Of An Atlas?


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#81 MountainCopper

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 01:45 AM

In an Atlas, you are the biggest joke on the battlefield. The only viable thing which people found out, is to increase its speed as much they can and play it as a full Brawler.
It just is unplayable as anything else. Medium range, long range... not a chance against any opponent when they are slightly faster and/or more agile; you will always be hit.
In the current state of the game, an Atlas is "unplayable" as anything else but this short-range poker.

Got hit by a Gauss and some laser fire from a Hellbringer, then got some laser fire from a Thunderbolt and another opponent passing in front of me between buildings.
What should have resulted in having received about 30 - 50 damage, hopefully spread a little across the CT and side-torsos, ended up in me being cored in the CT! At least 110 damage were inflicted onto the CT, and that just from this light encounter at medium range.

And under these stars, playing the game is just a joke. And pointless playing.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 11 October 2015 - 10:34 AM.


#82 pwnface

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 01:52 AM

View PostThe Atlas Overlord, on 10 October 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:


I just watched you pilot an XL atlas.

You don't get to tell people "they're not playing atlas right".


Dude, you pilot an LRM atlas. That is literally just as terrible.

#83 pwnface

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 02:01 AM

The Atlas has become less of a threat on the battlefield due to the mid-range laser vomit meta that is so prevalent now. It is very difficult to close the distance on your enemy without getting chewed to pieces and I think the ability to do so makes or breaks an Atlas pilot's success. If you are charging the enemy across open ground and don't utilize torso twisting correctly, you are going to have a terrible experience with this mech. However, if you can get within 300m without taking significant damage, there aren't many mechs that will be able to survive that encounter.

I'm not a spectacular Atlas pilot, in fact I only own the AS7-S and AS7-DDC. In the AS7-S without full basics, I've been able to consistently do 700-800 damage by knowing the right time to push and brawl the enemy. AC20 + 4SRM6 absolutely wrecks people at close range. If PGI would buff SRMs to where they belong, brawler builds common on the Atlas would be more competitive with other assault mech options currently available.

#84 Sarlic

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 02:21 AM

View Postpwnface, on 11 October 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

The Atlas has become less of a threat on the battlefield due to the mid-range laser vomit meta that is so prevalent now. It is very difficult to close the distance on your enemy without getting chewed to pieces and I think the ability to do so makes or breaks an Atlas pilot's success. If you are charging the enemy across open ground and don't utilize torso twisting correctly, you are going to have a terrible experience with this mech. However, if you can get within 300m without taking significant damage, there aren't many mechs that will be able to survive that encounter.

I'm not a spectacular Atlas pilot, in fact I only own the AS7-S and AS7-DDC. In the AS7-S without full basics, I've been able to consistently do 700-800 damage by knowing the right time to push and brawl the enemy. AC20 + 4SRM6 absolutely wrecks people at close range. If PGI would buff SRMs to where they belong, brawler builds common on the Atlas would be more competitive with other assault mech options currently available.


I have been piloting the Atlas all the time. But i don't think it's that all candy and roses what you are saying here.

When i jump in it i certainly know because of my name alone i mostly get priortized when running the Atlas. And second because it's a big target, just like the Direwolf.

Especially on the competiteve level, good opposite group play, PUGs who knows (e.g. some unit names, good players) know what they're doing will disable Atlas and other like mechs with ease. They will try to make you impossible to cruise within SRM or brawl range.

But that doesn't say that i am not succesfull at all. In fact i have topped several weeks go about 700-800 range in a hardcore Atlas-K. Group went smooth, i didnt go into brawl range and used any cover to protect my valueable armor. When the time was near and the team decided to have a go i got in and was shooting all over the place.

But i do also have 200 damage matches, 400 and even lowish 100 at times. Fact is i did had a more consistent peformance before more power mechs got added who are just plain better then the Atlas. It makes sense.

I think it all boils down on what experience and skills comes down to that specific match. Too random to say.

I do believe that you can be consistant if you face players who are either inexperienced, or you go pug - or they don't target you as a priority. Seen that enough times before PSR went live.

But i dont believe you that you can put up a consistant high grade peformance in both PUG and groupplay when you face enemies who know who are doing and or are outfitted heavily in the longer range.

That being said i find it a shame that alot of pilots are dropping pretty much valueable hardpoints in order to alpha vomit more and or fit it on the longer range. In my opinion customisation kills more then it does good. But it all depends on balance: customisation can be blessing or a curse. In our current state: its a curse.

But when balance hits the nail on the head; we would see blessing and have more mixed and loadout variety.

Edited by Sarlic, 11 October 2015 - 02:24 AM.


#85 pwnface

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 02:36 AM

View PostSarlic, on 11 October 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:


But i dont believe you that you can put up a consistant high grade peformance in both PUG and groupplay when you face enemies who know who are doing and or are outfitted heavily in the longer range.



I'll never play an Atlas in PUG queue because I can't rely on my team to push when I lead a charge. If your team makes a good push with you there 2 outcomes. Either you tank damage for 10-20 seconds before getting melted and your team can use that valuable time to attack the enemy force OR you survive the initial onslaught and your team brawls right through the enemy team.

I never said running an Atlas is all candy and roses, in fact I believe it to be one of the more difficult assaults to pilot because of it's limitations. Obviously the enemy team will want to try to destroy you before you get into brawl range, your goal should be to get into brawl range without taking damage. Taking mid or long range peeks with an Atlas is a terrible idea because 90% of the mechs on the field will out-trade you. The Atlas is just not suitable for the hide and poke playstyle that mechs like the BLR or STK are capable of. Instead, conserve your armor and hide from the enemy as much as possible while you close distance. Ideally, you'll only appear in front of your enemy when they are 300-350m away from you when it is too late for them to get away.

Edited by pwnface, 11 October 2015 - 02:38 AM.


#86 Khobai

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 04:33 AM

Quote

You have to remember that in tabletop the Atlas is not supposed to have the same value as a Dire Wolf.


Except this isnt tabletop. Because PGI decided to make IS vs Clan 12v12 and make it a 1:1 balance. That means a 100 ton Atlas needs to equal a 100 ton Dire Wolf. That is the only way the game can ever be balanced.

The only way the Atlas and Direwolf can be equal is if the sum of their component parts are equal.

Which means IS and Clan weapons need to be equal. CXL and ISXL need to be equal. Clan FF/ES/DHS and IS FF/ES/DHS need to be equal. Advantages/Disadvantages of battlemechs and omnimechs need to be equal. Quirks can balance some of those things to a degree, but theres a limit to how big quirks can get before they become stupidly lopsided and overpowered.


And that in a nutshell is the huge balance !@#$storm that PGI has gotten themselves into...

Edited by Khobai, 11 October 2015 - 04:43 AM.


#87 xengk

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 05:03 AM

I have been binge piloting Atlas this whole week, at first to Master my BH and later having so much fun I bring out my other Atlas to stomp around.
When an Atlas gets focus fire on, it get an extra 1 or 2 seconds to react before crumbling like any other mech under focus fire. They are not rambo mech like how Firestarter and Spider are, Atlas always need atleast a buddy to watch it's back.

In PUGland, people might not listen to you but they will often follow an Atlas if one stroll pass them.
Use this mentallity to herd the PUGs, move toward the frontline and check minimap to see how many have gravitate to you. Once you are close to contact, slow down, but don't stop your mech, the PUGs will outrun you and slam into the contact. Take a couple seconds to let them mix it up before arriving at the brawl, use the suprise to take out 1 or 2 enemy mech before they either focus on you or retreat.

Atlas I have been playing this week.
AS7-BH
4x LPL
2x MPL

AS7-D
2x LBX10
2x LL
2x MPL
1x LRM10
1x LRM5

AS7-RS
4x LL
1x UAC5
1x LRM10
1x LRM5

#88 Sir Wulfrick

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 05:31 AM

View PostSarlic, on 10 October 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

I have been hammering about the state of the Atlas for some time.

I already told threads ago (or better said: one year ago) the Atlas is getting behind the line. Because i already saw new players struggling with it. I doing fine with it, but i did it more for the new players.

A Atlas is a hard mech to pilot, in my opinion one of the hardest mechs because when you drop on the field you already have several disadvantages. By just dropping on the field. From low mounted guns to the biggest bulletsponge alive. Not to mention it looks like a 200 ton instead of 100 ton.

I have made a guide about the Atlas and revamped it the last months. It's a great chassis, but with all the long range spam it's very hard to get in range when piloting in PUGlandia. I have lowered my dropping in the Atlas in PUG because the players arent working together as well and the speed is killing it. I mostly drop in Orions and try to support the Assaults. In grouo que i am extremely effective in the Atlas because those teammates knows how to roll. In PUGlandia it really depends of the situation. Most of the times not because people do not know how to support a Assault in the first place.

The Atlas is a teamplayer, not a big guy who should cruise on its own. I do still reasonable / good with it, i just got myself into Orions and i do fine (due my experiences with the Atlas) as well. (They're amazingly fun and a true sweet heavy mini Atlas for me) I like challenges, i like to smash clan faces but i do have to admit it's pretty hardcore now days. Compared to that the Atlas K is extreme hardcore. You have to be careful about your positioning even more then before. I still like them and they're still my main force. All of them still have a positive rating on their heads. Yes, even the K.

I still find the Atlas got screwed over multiple times. I already expressed my concerns after the first IS quirk pass that these were fairly weak and could still see issues. The overall balance of laserspam was killing it on the long term. And i was not the only one. But PGI doesnt listen to my feedback anymore and i even offered Russ help via P.M. when i was discussing with him via P.M. of bringing the eyes of the Atlas back with a proper mechanic to provent long range farming because of the visibility of the eyes and how to properly handle and buff the Atlas. All back in 2013 and 2014. The hitbox rework screwed them partially over.

He told me he would add it all on the list and should be easy thing to do, but to today i havent heard anything from him despite my several attempts to contact him.

I gave up reasoning and helping. The last thing i did was a small summary in PTS section of the Atlas. The buffs didnt make sense at all.


Agree 100%. The topic of the Atlas and how to improve it has come up several times. The general consensus of the Hard Core Atlas Fanatics Club (of which I am a fully paid up member :) ) is that it needs serious armour buffs. It doesn't need any geometry changes, weapon buffs or speed buffs, but it really needs much, much more survivability. The Atlas should not be the ultimate firepower mech - that title is definitely held by the Direwolf - but the Atlas should become what it was always meant to be, the most survivable mech in the entire system. If PGI are considering this then I'll be cautiously optimistic.

#89 Karamarka

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 05:32 AM

Atlas is unplayable.

it's only good if you are a masochist.

Slow, huge, crap agility and short range crap weapons mostly.

Why play this hunk at all. You can boat SRMS better on a clan.

#90 Bill Lumbar

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 05:33 AM

View PostGrimRiver, on 10 October 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

I know that feeling, I wrecked one too with my WVR-6R(AC5+maxxed cooldown mod, 3 SRM4's, 1 med laser) both of us was 100% and I came out on top with 36% left, I did have a video but Nvidia's savefile became corrupt and lost 15 video's. :(

I popped the hill on Alpine and found a 56% timber, and the Atlas was at 97%. I was at 80% when I engaged the timber and popped just over the his to peak then backed off, waited a few seconds and went balls to the wall flanking the flatlass and charged the timber. I was able to keep stay out of the Atlas front firing arc and kill the timber... then ran back down the hill and forced the Atlas to come after me in the lower hills on Alpine. I kept flanking him, and he just couldn't get a clear shot on me because I was using the short hills as cover and kept flanking him every which way. This had to be one of the most exciting matches I have ever played in two years with this game. 5 kills, forget how many assist, and like 1100+ damage. That game had me on the edge of my gaming chair for sure, as I was the last man standing.
I do have to give props to a Locust pilot in that game though.... he lived just shortly after I dropped the timber, but failed to get back to some cover and found himself staring at the Atlas in the open. Needless to say he played a hell of a game, 400+ damage, but just dropped like a fly when he engaged the Atlas head on. We didn't have in game voice chat back then.... It might have helped if we did.

#91 oldradagast

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 05:58 AM

I still roll mine now and then, but that's mostly because I don't feel like going through the expensive grind of buying 3 real 100-tonners (King Crabs or Dire Wolves.)

The Atlas is simply poor these days. They are not total, laughable junk like Awesomes and some other mechs, but they are still in a tough spot.
- Mediocre hitboxes
- Low, scattered hardpoints that generally discourage boating

Now, it could be worse: they can at least mount a decent amount and variety of weapons, and their hitboxes are not laughably bad, but they still are flat-out inferior in all ways that matter to a King Crab or Dire Wolf. Mobility - mostly twist range - is the only edge they have, which is next to useless these days.

#92 oldradagast

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:05 AM

View PostYosharian, on 11 October 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

You have to remember that in tabletop the Atlas is not supposed to have the same value as a Dire Wolf.

Atlas: BV(2) 1897
vs
Dire Wolf: BV(2) 2712

The Dire Wolf is roughly 50% more valuable than an Atlas. (or 150% of an Atlas' value if you like)

We need good quirks on Inner Sphere (and the weaker Clan Mechs) to bring up mechs like the Atlas to a level at which they can compete with mechs carrying the same tonnage as them.

The number 1 balance problem with the game right now is that quirks aren't being iterated intelligently and frequently enough.


True, though on the other hand, compare the Atlas to the King Crab:

Atlas:
BV1 = 1,557
BV2 = 1,897

King Crab:
BV1 = 1,509
BV2 = 1,906

Almost identical, but in the game, the King Crab wins by a solid margin. Note that I'm not trying to pick a fight here, nor am I am asking for the King Crab to be nerfed. This is more of an example of how the Atlas is failing to live up to its potential even from a Lore perspective. I'm fine with the Dire Wolf being a bit better overall (at least it has crud mobility), but the Atlas should be on par with a King Crab, IMHO.

#93 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:10 AM

We are supposed to have a rebalance coming up, hopefully that will help. I think most players are hoping for some real tanks quirks, but we will see.

#94 Kh0rn

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:41 AM

My 2 cents

1. A Atlas should never be configured for purely close range or long range unless they have a skilled enough team to support it.

2. The model of the atlas does not to be changed its torso's slimmed and its arms enlarged to help with spreading the damage.

3. Atlas's are not build for boating instead of carrying a wide array of AC , lasers and missiles. Requiring the pilot to make use of multiple weapon system to get the best of the mech.

4. You can't use a Atlas like in lore as in soaking up all the damage and be a huge terror in the field he has to be handled with care and knowing when to attack or not to attack could mean the difference between crushing them and being crushed.

5. Don't trust the pug to help lol.

#95 Astrocanis

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:48 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 10 October 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

It's certain, in a doubled-basics DWF. Absolutely. I've never, in roughly 600 Direwolf drops, ever encountered a light pilot that could stay out of my field of fire. Not even the very best ones.

Not to say I don't fear the very good light pilots, but I fear them because they are very good pilots, not because they are in lights.

A Direwolf or 300std KGC/AS7 without doubled basics, maybe. Probably. But I don't much care about that, as one can get those doubled basics fast and, to be honest, an Assault mech without it's pilot skills is at a horrible disadvantage anyways, and is a much lesser threat.


So you're saying that in the very best firing platform, with pinpoint damage, in the toughest overall mech in the game whose only deficit is maneuvering, you always beat a light one on one. Great. Now do it in an Atlas. The mech that this non-epeen-shining topic is about. We have no doubt of your supreme confidence in a whale. Now prove it in an Atlas.

#96 James Montana

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:56 AM

The point of the Atlas in its current state - the mech you might drop in to feel bad ass, but won't deliver. It's like that fat coach that stands on the sidelines and looks intimidating, but really isn't worth a damn. - Atlas, do you workout, bro?

#97 Triordinant

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:59 AM

The Great Rebalance™ is supposed to make all 'mechs equally viable. I wonder if it'll work...

#98 FupDup

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:39 AM

View PostAstrocanis, on 11 October 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:


So you're saying that in the very best firing platform, with pinpoint damage, in the toughest overall mech in the game whose only deficit is maneuvering, you always beat a light one on one. Great. Now do it in an Atlas. The mech that this non-epeen-shining topic is about. We have no doubt of your supreme confidence in a whale. Now prove it in an Atlas.

His example was actually more meaningful than an Atlas, because the Daishi has the worst agility in the game. Thus, the Daishi would by definition have a harder time against lights than any other mech...and yet in spite of that, Wintersdark is still able to make it work against lights.

The Atlas has much less firepower, but it still packs more than enough punch to take out a light and has better agility for keeping them in its firing arc.

#99 Wintersdark

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:48 AM

View PostAstrocanis, on 11 October 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:


So you're saying that in the very best firing platform, with pinpoint damage, in the toughest overall mech in the game whose only deficit is maneuvering, you always beat a light one on one. Great. Now do it in an Atlas. The mech that this non-epeen-shining topic is about. We have no doubt of your supreme confidence in a whale. Now prove it in an Atlas.

Ok.

View PostFupDup, on 11 October 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

His example was actually more meaningful than an Atlas, because the Daishi has the worst agility in the game. Thus, the Daishi would by definition have a harder time against lights than any other mech...and yet in spite of that, Wintersdark is still able to make it work against lights.

The Atlas has much less firepower, but it still packs more than enough punch to take out a light and has better agility for keeping them in its firing arc.

This.

I used the DWF for a very specific reason: Horrendous maneuverability and locked arms.

The Atlas sports articulated arms and, unless you're an utter moron, an engine larger than a 300. Now, I'm not saying the Atlas is better than the DWF - on the contrary, I've said from the start of this thread that the Atlas is one of the worst assaults, and hasn't been good since pre-Stalker release. However, the only thing the AS7 had going for it even when compared to the Stalker was articulated arms and a better engine rating.

An AS7 with a ~350 rated engine and some decent energy weapons in it's arms can handily keep a light in it's front arc or at least, off it's rear, twists fast and far enough that even when the light is behind it (relative to it's legs) it can keep its back away leaving only a small area of it's butt vulnerable as rear targets to a light and even that should be constantly twisting one way or the other, and has a FAR easier time bringing weapons to bear against the light.

If you choose to run an AS7 with a smaller engine, don't cry when you can't keep lights off your rear.

If a DWF can readily bring it's guns to bear against a light, then for an AS7 with a larger engine and articulated arms it's child's play.

Edited by Wintersdark, 11 October 2015 - 08:49 AM.


#100 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:52 AM

I like the L one with all the missile hardpoints lol





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