108 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Khobai, on 10 October 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Yeah but a 55 ton clan mech will wreck an atlas with laser vomit. It basically kills the atlas in 3 alphas. maybe 4 if theyre not dead accurate.

Likewise a 65 ton IS jagermech has no problem at all wrecking an Atlas. Even though it has a 35 ton disadvantage the fact it can carry multiple high mounted ballistics makes it more than a match for the Atlas.

I did say it was relative, and picked my example well.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Khobai, on 10 October 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

right and part of being slow and having poor agility is that lights can get into your back arc. the problem isnt so much that lights are in your back arc but more the sheer amount of damage those lights are doing with broken weapons like CSPL. The CSPL is a really broken weapon that needs to be majorly nerfed.

another problem is the 1.4 DHS. Its hard for assaults to get a heat dissipation advantage by stacking heatsinks because the external heatsinks are so crappy. They really should make all DHS 1.7-1.8 instead of having internal be 2.0 and external be 1.4. That makes no sense.

The whole point of being slow is that they get to the one spot that completely negates all of the armor you have.

Ok, it's fair to restrict light mechs to only 10 armor on all locations since they're fast then right....since they're fast every spot should be a virtual insta-kill if they stop moving or you're actually good enough to hit right?

If it's front armor being able to be ignored just b/c it's slow is a trade off... then what's the massive benefit it gains for it being so big you can never miss?

The firepower?

Khobai, on 10 October 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

the problem isnt so much that lights are in your back arc but more the sheer amount of damage those lights are doing

Well that addresses that.

Face it, lights are FAR more powerful than they should be.....or atlases are drastically under armored and gunned for their size and speed.

Davers, on 10 October 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

If you try to solo an Atlas in a 50 ton IS mech you would totally think it's pretty tanky.

If you can't kill an atlas in literally anything I've seen people using, you're just not playing your mech right.

Davers, on 10 October 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

No mech in the game can insta-kill an Atlas.

Unless you don't aim for it's CT, then there are dozens that can.

Or insta-wound it so badly that it might as well be dead.

Davers, on 10 October 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

The question is "How long should the largest mech with the most armor be able to stand against x number of opponents?" And unless you want all weapons to be shooting pillows, the answer is "Not very long".

The problem is that even when X=1 it's still NOWHERE near long enough.

DjPush, on 10 October 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

Their low damage isn't because of hardpoint locations. It's because people aren't piloting them properly.

I just watched you pilot an XL atlas.

You don't get to tell people "they're not playing atlas right".

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 10 October 2015 - 08:38 PM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

DjPush, on 10 October 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

Their low damage isn't because of hardpoint locations. It's because people aren't piloting them properly.

Their Geometry/Hitboxes are far more an issue than hardpoint locations or firepower. Simple fact is they are of moderate potential firepower for class, but have extremely mediocre hitboxes when facing focused fire.

1v1 they are still potent enough, overall, if well piloted. But 1v1 is rare, and good Atlas pilots, rarer.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Illya Arkhipova, on 10 October 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

But 1v1 is rare, and good Atlas pilots, rarer.

Even the best atlas pilots in the game are just barely able to pull mediocre damage and kills against much much worse pilots, in much smaller, less armored mechs reliably.

[Davers]

The Atlas Overlord, on 10 October 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

Even the best atlas pilots in the game are just barely able to pull mediocre damage and kills against much much worse pilots, in much smaller, less armored mechs reliably.

Source?

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Davers, on 10 October 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

Source?

I never see atlas pilots carry games, even all the streamers the rare time they play one.... it's just meh 80% percent of the time.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 10 October 2015 - 08:47 PM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

The Atlas Overlord, on 10 October 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

I never see atlas pilots carry games, even all the streamers the rare time they play one.... it's just meh 80% percent of the time.

and the other 20%

There's a lot of bad pilots in all sorts of mechs. One common misconceptions among bads is that Assault mechs make them less bad... but being slow and clumsy makes them more bad. Atlas are not the Comp Meta, but well run, they are capable.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Illya Arkhipova, on 10 October 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

and the other 20%

Well occasionally mostly through luck, or b/c they're facing bad pilots they do well.

But it's never b/c the mech is on par with anything they're facing.

Illya Arkhipova, on 10 October 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

but well run, they are capable.

Yeah, that's the point.... even when used to their max potential they just barely break "capable".

[Homeskilit]

The secret to playing the Atlas well is to play it like a command mech not like a front line dps mech.

[Lightfoot]

Back when we had a Gauss Rifle the Atlas was pretty good. When PGI replaced the Gauss Rifle with Duke Nukem's Sniper Rifle (it is) that pretty much killed the Atlas. It would be nice if PGI didn't deviate so far from Battle Tech. They could and should have just given the Gauss Rifle a longer recharge, then it could be combined with other faster recharging weapons like Lasers and fired from the hip... so to speak.

[One Medic Army]

Mycrus, on 10 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

run 1 pt of rear armor... on all your mechs except lights... for lights I run 3 pts...

I remember when I was considered insane for only running 15pts rear on my atlas...

[Mycrus]

One Medic Army, on 10 October 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

I remember when I was considered insane for only running 15pts rear on my atlas...

And i remember getting reported for armor hax, because there was no way i could have survived that alpha

Davers, on 10 October 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

Source?

Atlas scrubs that he sees at his tier level...

I think i should break out the atlai again... it has been awhile...

[Speedy Plysitkos]

ARMOR quirks needed.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I have good luck with this Atlas. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cb21559060708cb

But yeah, most Atlas seem really out of place, and the very few times you get to actually use an AC-20+3xSRM6 atlas are pretty rare.

They're not an ideal Gauss/PPC/LL sniper so most people just ignore them completely or run cheesy LRM builds out of frustration.

[Golden Vulf]

The problem with "Assault" mechs is that they aren't named "Support" mechs.

Throughout history, fire support platforms have always been vulnerable to fast moving flankers.

Surface to Surface missile launchers to helicopters.
Battleships to torpedoes launched from light cruisers or airplanes.
Archers to guys on horseback.

[Sarlic]

I have been hammering about the state of the Atlas for some time.

I already told threads ago (or better said: one year ago) the Atlas is getting behind the line. Because i already saw new players struggling with it. I doing fine with it, but i did it more for the new players.

A Atlas is a hard mech to pilot, in my opinion one of the hardest mechs because when you drop on the field you already have several disadvantages. By just dropping on the field. From low mounted guns to the biggest bulletsponge alive. Not to mention it looks like a 200 ton instead of 100 ton.

I have made a guide about the Atlas and revamped it the last months. It's a great chassis, but with all the long range spam it's very hard to get in range when piloting in PUGlandia. I have lowered my dropping in the Atlas in PUG because the players arent working together as well and the speed is killing it. I mostly drop in Orions and try to support the Assaults. In grouo que i am extremely effective in the Atlas because those teammates knows how to roll. In PUGlandia it really depends of the situation. Most of the times not because people do not know how to support a Assault in the first place.

The Atlas is a teamplayer, not a big guy who should cruise on its own. I do still reasonable / good with it, i just got myself into Orions and i do fine (due my experiences with the Atlas) as well. (They're amazingly fun and a true sweet heavy mini Atlas for me) I like challenges, i like to smash clan faces but i do have to admit it's pretty hardcore now days. Compared to that the Atlas K is extreme hardcore. You have to be careful about your positioning even more then before. I still like them and they're still my main force. All of them still have a positive rating on their heads. Yes, even the K.

I still find the Atlas got screwed over multiple times. I already expressed my concerns after the first IS quirk pass that these were fairly weak and could still see issues. The overall balance of laserspam was killing it on the long term. And i was not the only one. But PGI doesnt listen to my feedback anymore and i even offered Russ help via P.M. when i was discussing with him via P.M. of bringing the eyes of the Atlas back with a proper mechanic to provent long range farming because of the visibility of the eyes and how to properly handle and buff the Atlas. All back in 2013 and 2014. The hitbox rework screwed them partially over.

He told me he would add it all on the list and should be easy thing to do, but to today i havent heard anything from him despite my several attempts to contact him.

I gave up reasoning and helping. The last thing i did was a small summary in PTS section of the Atlas. The buffs didnt make sense at all.

Sarlic, on 12 September 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

It's sure in the right direction. But it needs less structure quirks, but more and or better armor value's.

You can give it as much structure quirks you want, but if the armor is still terrible light and easily to break through, it will still disable your weapons with ease. (open component, crit, transfer) And you just Zombie along with the excessive structure quirks and disabled weapons.

That's the difference.

From that point i knew even more PGI doesnt know jackshit about balance and i dont bother no more.

Edited by Sarlic, 10 October 2015 - 11:55 PM.

[Void Angel]

Davers, on 10 October 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

The only advice I can offer is this: if you die in your Atlas with either arm left, you didn't do a good job twisting.

Or your enemies can shoot - an Atlas' arms aren't very big, so even with twisted perpendicular to enemy fire, I almost never lose (lost) my arms before the side torso.

In any case, I'm sure it's been hashed out already, but the point of the Atlas is to showcase how 'mechs can be left behind by changes in the game. There have been threads about how to fix it, but we might need a major weapon rebalance to do so. Right now, it's just too slow, and everyone is using Gauss Rifles and long-range lasers. You can twist, but you can't hide, and your hardpoints are too low to fight back.

I'll wait and see how the new balance pass works out, though. I haven't been on the test server to, er, test it out.

[Davers]

Void Angel, on 10 October 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

Or your enemies can shoot - an Atlas' arms aren't very big, so even with twisted perpendicular to enemy fire, I almost never lose (lost) my arms before the side torso.

In any case, I'm sure it's been hashed out already, but the point of the Atlas is to showcase how 'mechs can be left behind by changes in the game. There have been threads about how to fix it, but we might need a major weapon rebalance to do so. Right now, it's just too slow, and everyone is using Gauss Rifles and long-range lasers. You can twist, but you can't hide, and your hardpoints are too low to fight back.

I'll wait and see how the new balance pass works out, though. I haven't been on the test server to, er, test it out.

That's ok, no one else has either. Even the last "test" seems to have had nothing to do with rebalance.

The Atlas has not aged well. But neither has any of the original mechs, though the Jenner had the longest relevance, and Hunchbacks did have a slight resurgence with their large quirks.

Barring large quirks I fail to imagine the Atlas ever earning it's lore reputation. Low hardpoints will never become an advantage and will be a hinderance even if the meta completely changed to different weapons.

[the punk who stole your thunder]

I am levelling the Atlas atm - trying to get one victory every day for the D-DC, D and S to get the "1st victory" x2 multiplier.

Tough job - i am more of a light pilot and i find the AS being really team-dependent - so wheel of fortune.

Having some nice games, but if i want to destroy mechs, i take out my LCT-1E with 6spl ....

[Yosharian]

You have to remember that in tabletop the Atlas is not supposed to have the same value as a Dire Wolf.

Atlas: BV(2) 1897
vs
Dire Wolf: BV(2) 2712

The Dire Wolf is roughly 50% more valuable than an Atlas. (or 150% of an Atlas' value if you like)

We need good quirks on Inner Sphere (and the weaker Clan Mechs) to bring up mechs like the Atlas to a level at which they can compete with mechs carrying the same tonnage as them.

The number 1 balance problem with the game right now is that quirks aren't being iterated intelligently and frequently enough.