81 replies to this topic

[Kira Onime]

[sycocys]

rolly, on 13 October 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

This unequivocally is NOT a fact. You have no basis for it, nor do you have any evidence or statistics to support it.
Furthermore you are debasing this constructive argument with the a simple "L2P" bias response. You can do better. The only fact you have agreed upon is that people are playing this for fun. A portion of it are not.

Regardless of how much "better" I or any other is at player as a team player, how often have you seen a stranger work well with a complete and utter stranger ? Much less one that speaks the language?

You have 12 people "trying" to coordinate against 6-8-10-12 (between 1/2 to 2/3rds of a team) that all are use to each others play styles, mechs, loadouts and have clear command and organization. This is a factual human social behaviour.

Okay.
IF they actually wanted to play CW.
THEN these same people would have kept right one playing after the events that showed them how having population changes everything.

Pretty simple concept.

And CW vs Standard drop with the #1 complaint that players against teams because teamwork is unfair hits the learn to play button right square in the center concerning this matter.

You don't need to know anyone to be able to function well as their teammate, nor speak their language. It happens in hundreds of matches a day in the standard solo queue once you cross out of having T4/T5 players populating the matches - and most of the time people don't even need to communicate verbally or with text once they learn the basics, they just understand what to do based on what the front men are doing. -- Also part of the "learn to play" experience, this comes with time but also by actually putting for the effort to learn to play as a team opposed to being rambo every match and getting the occasional lucky win.

And you should read my statement about pug dropping with a bunch of guys using no comms and having 4 dcs right at the start of the match and still holding our own against a 12 man. Not only possible to do - but far more likely to happen once people stop giving up before the match starts and resigning to the "OMG ITS A 12 MAN WE'RE DOOMED!!!!" behavior.

It just 12 other players, hell half the 12 mans that are still dropping CW are just the lower ranked players in larger units in training sessions. Very little to be scared about at all if you can put up the bare minimum effort of 250 damage and 1 kill secured per mech.

--
Groups early on WERE at a tactical advantage, and a huge one over solo players. Then PGI finally pulled their head out and implemented in-game voip. Now its a pretty level field, UNLESS you choose to not make it so.

Edited by sycocys, 13 October 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

sycocys, on 13 October 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Groups early on WERE at a tactical advantage, and a huge one over solo players. Then PGI finally pulled their head out and implemented in-game voip. Now its a pretty level field, UNLESS you choose to not make it so.

VOIP doesnt level the playing field. There is no prematch coodination. Basically have 12 different players hodgepoded together with a mix of Trial Mechs, special snowflake builds, or RP stock+, and they all think they know where to go. There are some deadly players running solo or 2,3,4 mans in CW but the VOIP feature often wont make a difference. "Pug whispering" as its called, is a thing but saying VOIP levels the field is just not the case.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 13 October 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[wanderer]

CW has one mode. Group mode.

In fact, at this point even solo mode would be group mode considering in many cases,there's only one team anyhow.

[-Vompo-]

rolly, on 12 October 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

No more victimization or PUGS to prey on eh? Oh dear what will they do?

Quit cw. No reason to wait for a game for hours. Pugs can form groups just as easily as units can. It is actually more easy to get a group going if you just invite people from the same faction rather than your specific unit. Most units are not so tough that a bunch of pugs in comms cannot beat them or at the very least play a close game against them.

I've been in units for the past 1,5 years but not once have I been part of 12 man drop where every player would be member of my unit. Most of the time the groups have been made of members of 3 or more units and even so we win most games even against 12 man units.

I don't understand people who want to play a team game but don't want to be part of a team.

[MischiefSC]

People will play CW when IS/Clans are balanced and winning/losing means something.

Not before.

[Black Ivan]

Quote

People will play CW when IS/Clans are balanced and winning/losing means something.

Not before.

I agree this. When there is no reason to pick one side over other because it has the better stuff is a step in the righ directíon.
And I also agree, CW has to mean someting. Someting for the Faction and something for the player himself.

[Tom Sawyer]

[TWIAFU]

Strig, on 13 October 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Not true. Solo players mostly try CW and give up after seeing what a 12-man does to their experience (NOT fun). If "group CW is fun then why would it die off .. maybe you are worried that solo play is more fun? Imagine a game where fun was actually the intent (now imagine more people playing and paying because they are having more fun ... ).

If the "solo-sync-drop" becomes a thing then that can be addressed.



This sort of elitist crap is just one reason CW is nearly dead.

The "C" in CW means "Community" ... a community made up primarily of solo or small groups (2 man, not 12 man) playing together. The same community that backed the game and plays the game in much greater numbers than the elite units.

Solo player rambo mindset and pugtards (your terms) pay for this game. No one is saying force every Unit to play with them, in fact, with a solo-drop CW queue, you and your high-and-mighty super-serious unit-tards can play without them forever in your group only queue.

As to "Solo player only queue would defeat the intent of CW, playing in group/unit." ... no one said this was the intent of CW ... except the Units.

I like how you want to re-define what a group and community means to fit your agenda. Slick move but will not go unnoticed! Nice try there, but you failed.

So now your saying that it is the solo rambo and pugtards that pay for it all and are in larger numbers without access to any of those numbers. Another classy move, but you fail again.

And your last sentence, well, it just goes to show EVERYONE how uninformed and biased you are!

Russ Bullock, on 13 December 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

The whole concept is that the match maker and CW was definitely built primarily for Units and groups of 12. It still works for small groups and solo players but they can get left behind - we are working on ways to greatly improve the ability of small groups and solo players to find matches more on this at the end.

Now, you were saying that it is only the UNITs stating CW was made primarily for Groups and Units? How does Russ' statement, the President of PGI, fit into your BS?

[TWIAFU]

Dawnstealer, on 13 October 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Or for "solo" players such as myself [I have a unit I'm a part of and drop with on occasion, but we don't drop that often in CW nowadays...like most units, it seems]. But I can follow directions and I pay attention to what the pre-builts are doing. I don't rambo up, I don't try to win the game by myself, I don't hide in a corner.

I find I actually have some of my best games when operating as the Pugger in someone else's group drop.

While you drop alone, you play as part of a team, that is the difference. That is the player that is needed and wanted.

The one that is unwanted is the player that drops into CW and plays it like solo queue with extra lives.

It's not solo queue with extra lives.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

sycocys, on 13 October 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

If pugs are 90% + of the population, then it would be extremely rare for them to run into the 1% that form 12 man groups.

the thing is. 90% are solopugers, that doesnt mean, 90% play CW atm. so the rest you calculate isnt correct.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

The point of this thread isnt denying fact, that in theory CW should be for groups only. i believe the idea works great on paper.

But no in current gamestate.
CW currently play <5% of all mwo population(becuase ******** group vs pug stomps and horrible waiting times). Make it public for pug vs pug means, people will start play it, there will not be leet noob teams farming.

And thats all.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

I understand people from leet groups -ms-, 228 and others are scared to death for group vs group mode. Cause they will not win (stomp pug) anymore in CW. But I dont care about those. They are minority in whole mwo pop.

[Ace Selin]

They need to also make CW a mode where its worthwhile to be in a unit. Provide Rewards specifically for people in units.
More people in units the more fun they will have and see how beneficial and also rewarding it is to be in a unit.

Something like ...

When you drop with 4 players in total or more from your unit you get double the end game rewards, on top of this after say

100 such drops you receive a light mech with Faction specific Camo& 5% CW loyalty boost.
200 such drops you receive a medium mech with Faction specific Camo 5% CW loyalty boost.
400 such drops you receive a heavy mech with Faction specific Camo 5% CW loyalty boost.
800 such drops you receive an assault mech with Faction specific Camo 5% CW loyalty boost.

[Khereg]

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 04:58 AM, said:

I understand people from leet groups -ms-, 228 and others are scared to death for group vs group mode.

Uh...all that we're "afraid of" is not being able to get matches.

We go into group queue and see each other all the time. We scrim between comp matches and we play against each other in competitive tournaments. None of those groups are afraid of seeing each other in a match. Many of us are friends and get on comms together for mixed group drops. We even (contrary to common belief) occasionally coordinate drops against each other in CW when things are slow, or we want a little extra challenge.

1/10 - would not respond again.

[Tincan Nightmare]

With the current wasteland population levels of CW, it's kinda ironic that people are still throwing out the old 'this if for hardcore groups' and 'this is a team game' arguments. I mean, most of the Pugs have been chased off, so CW currently should be a paradise for groups to engage each other in 'hardcore' matches of skill. Except instead its mostly tumbleweeds rolling across an empty gamespace. Shouldn't CW be a thriving locus of groups having epic battles? This subject has come up numerous times, and the answer is always the same, 'this is a team game' but apparently the 'teams' only want to club Pug seals and do not want to face each other. I mean look at the solo queue and the group queue, once they divided them the group queue is pretty much empty while the solo queue is where all the actions is. But yes, lets leave CW to the 'hardcore' groups and Pugs should only enter as cannon fodder to those groups, while the mode continues to disappear from the game.

[C E Dwyer]

Pulled from Strigs post because I can't be asked to edit a wall of text

"Solo player rambo mindset and pugtards (your terms) pay for this game"

I'm in a unit, I have every top package, every hero, in fact every damn mech in this game sitting in my mech bays yup all 250 plus, all painted and camo'd quite a few with rather pointless cockpit items.. yes an awful lot of money.


It is not the pugtard that keeps this game going, it is Battle tech and mech warrior fans.


I soloed CW, and I soloed it, knowing I could face 12 mans and get my backside kicked, because it's group centric and designed to be it.

I joined a unit, not because I got fed up with getting flattened by premades, and I'm glad I did join the unit, as they are great people, but I became fed up with trying to drop with snotty little Meme's who wouldn't stay in the lobby long enough to make a match and then would disco out the match because of whom they were facing, leaving the worth while people to do the best they could now sometimes 3 people short.

I'd much rather see these whiny kids moderated and banned for a month, or two, for ruining other peoples enjoyment, than ever see a solo cue in CW

[Koniving]

Question is how exactly would CW work if done in two separate queues? Are we going to have two separate Inner Spheres?

[Khereg]

Koniving, on 14 October 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Question is how exactly would CW work if done in two separate queues? Are we going to have two separate Inner Spheres?

I would imagine there'd be two attack lanes per border: one planet for solos to attack/defend and one for groups.

[Woofler]

Please, lets not use loose perceived figures as the basis of an argument.

Now... take the game as it is right now. As it stands, Community Warfare is oriented towards the groups and units of players, not the solo players. Yes, there's problems. Yes, the population of CW isn't what it should be. So many cans of worms on this thread.

Splitting queues will not solve anything where this game is right now, didn't you see what happened when they opened up the servers for Europe and Oceanic? You split the game into 3 separate playing divisions, teamed with the selections for 3 different game modes... you get longer wait periods because of the division of players. Then you have group matches separated with pug matches on top of that. Hence why PGI has seen the need to force a system where the players vote on preference, rather than, for example, allowing players to exclusively play 1 game mode type on 1 server division.
The last thing we need is to take the small population of active CW players and then separate them more...

As a general request, whether it be in Public or CW matches, please try:
-Making friends.
-Playing in a constructed group.
-Perhaps join a unit.
-Download TeamSpeak and go onto NGNG or other servers where there are players to join up with, even if it's just for a couple of matches.
This will become easier soon on the October 20th patch when you can add/join groups and whatnot simply during game using the in-game team screens. All this information is on this site, just look.

After you have done some of these things for a few months, come back to this thread with what you have learned. Don't sit around and wait for something to change for you... adapt! change to meet the situation! If you can't, then you've already lost.

Perhaps have a listen to some of the recent Town Hall meetings and you may gain an idea of where CW is heading in terms of solo player involvement, more incentives for planet occupation etc. Help you to help yourself. Get proactive! Don't be so resistant and just get on with it. Half the problems in this game are caused by people who do not try to understand or adapt to it.

No, I don't know everything so if something I said doesn't ring true or add up, let me know. Just don't blast me though haha.

As always, if any new players want to play, need help or even just want to talk, feel free to add me in game; Woofler
Hooroo

Edited by Woofler, 14 October 2015 - 07:27 PM.