135 replies to this topic

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Adiuvo, on 12 October 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

If you learned how to play something besides LRMs you miiiiiiight not feel that way.

You mean like ballistics? Which I use frequently.

Or lasers? Which are on literally every mech I have unlike LRMs.

Or PPCs? I don't use these, so that must be what you meant.

Or maybe you just blatantly lack a counter point and instead are going to insinuate bias

(funny thing, I only use LRMs b/c assaults are useless in an actual fight... when I want to absorb enemy fire, I take a light mech)

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 12 October 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Adiuvo]

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

You mean like ballistics? Which I use frequently.

Or lasers? Which are on literally every mech I have unlike LRMs.

Or PPCs? I don't use these, so that must be what you meant.

Well I mean you can use them, but a few days ago you were saying that LRMs were more useful that direct fire weapons so I'm guessing that you don't know how to actually use them.

[Baelfire]

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

See that's the thing...

Since lights get the advantages of being small and fast....AND get lots of firepower..... AND can easily bypass the "benefit" of an assaults armor... they're actually the weapons platform.

If light Mechs are so OP, why are they the least played weight class in a game where most people only play the best choice (also known as meta humping)?

I have yet to see a satisfying answer for this particular question. And i think without it, any discussion about light mech balance is moot.

[Light-Speed]

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

So lights:
Small hit boxes (huge advantage)
Fast (huge advantage)

Assaults:
Giant hitboxes (huge disadvantage)
Slow (huge disadvantage)
Armor is meaningless b/c a light can bypass it by going around you, and everything else can't miss you (huge disadvantage)

Why again should lights also be able to do as much damage as assaults?

Speak English.

Edited by Nightingale27, 12 October 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[Homeskilit]

Baelfire, on 12 October 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

If light Mechs are so OP, why are they the least played weight class in a game where most people only play the best choice (also known as meta humping)?

I have yet to see a satisfying answer for this particular question. And i think without it, any discussion about light mech balance is moot.

I would say light mechs are the least played class because of the lack of viable and rewarding roles for them.

[Adiuvo]

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

Or maybe you just blatantly lack a counter point and instead are going to insinuate bias

(funny thing, I only use LRMs b/c assaults are useless in an actual fight... when I want to absorb enemy fire, I take a light mech)

Not sure why you'd rather edit your posts instead of replying directly, but if you want me to be perfectly clear I think that, given your arguments, you don't really know what you're doing when it comes to optimal play. You're probably making a number of positioning mistakes, don't know proper spots on the map, don't know optimal opening movements, etc.. This also ignores the issue of aim, but the whole LRM vs direct fire thing makes that pretty clear.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Adiuvo, on 12 October 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

Well I mean you can use them, but a few days ago you were saying that LRMs were more useful that direct fire weapons so I'm guessing that you don't know how to actually use them.

And if you consider the full context of what I was actually saying, rather than dumbing it down to a blanket statement

The Atlas Overlord, on 08 October 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

I can't count the number of times I've stood in the middle of the team pack, or right behind the firing line and supplemented fire over the guys holding the line...

Or assisted scouts 800 meters away where I would have been able to do absolutely nothing with direct fire weapons.

You'd see I actually do.

#rekt

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 12 October 2015 - 09:57 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Why should a light bring mixed laser loadouts? What benefit does this give them over specializing in a range?

How many narcs is enough? Two tons of ammo enough for you? Despite the possibility of not having any indirect fire on your team?

You want us to sacrifice an E Hardpoint? One of our more valuable hardpoints? For a damageless beam we have to keep on someone?

An LRM5/10? That's disabled by ECM or more than 1 AMS?


On top of that, you want lights to spend for consumables so they fit your desired role of them?

Tell you what, OP. Give me builds for every light chassis that fit this archetype you're trying to enforce. And tell me you would honestly play the **** out of them, and love every second of it.

[Adiuvo]

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

And if you consider the full context of what I was actually saying, rather than dumbing it down to a blanket statement



You'd see I actually do.

#rekt

That you're putting yourself in situations where you wouldn't be able to do anything with direct fire weapons says it all, I think.

You're really betraying yourself here

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Adiuvo, on 12 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

That you're putting yourself in situations where you wouldn't be able to do anything with direct fire weapons says it all, I think.

You're really betraying yourself here

Ok cool guy.

Think what you want.

[Aethon]

El Bandito, on 12 October 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Role Warfare is desperately needed in MWO. Lorewise, only Lights that heavier mechs feared getting shot at were heavy hitters such as the Hollander and the Panther. Big mechs feared TAG on a Light more than its weapons.

And it could be that way again, except that heavy armour made smaller mechs designed around a single large weapon rather pointless.

Imagine how scary a Hollander would be to any medium mech in the game if we did not have doubled armour.

Unfortunately, until/unless PGI does something to cut down the number of hardpoints across the board and encourage people to run varied builds, that would never work.

[Phex]

Jazzbandit1313, on 12 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Let's start off with what we see most commonly in our light lances:

1. SML or SMPL FS9's or Cheetas

2. ERLL Ravens

3. The occasional myth lynx, jenner, spider, commando, lolcust...etc.

Light piloting has become a cesspool of high alpha, low heat, fast fire rate, god hitbox mechs that will take out your rear torso in two shots. It's especially insulting when you're zoomed in and the rear damage indicator decides not to work for the moment, then you die. I am SO sick and tired of dealing with peekaboo lights that alpha torsos off in three volleys, while you desperately try to hit them in their almost non-existent legs or CT from mid range.

Here's what we need to see more of:

1. Builds that support the team by targeting, relaying information, deploying UAV's, rather than headhunting the entire round.

2. NARC's, lots and lots of NARC's.

3. TAG lasers anyone?

4. LRM5/10's for long range harassment.

5. MIXED laser loadouts.

And no, it's not that I can't hit lights. I didn't get to tier two with bad aim now did I? Yes, I've taken down my fare share of Cheetas and FS9's with assaults and heavies, but the variety of their builds is starting to dwindle. Lights aren't supposed to take as much time, armor, and damage as an assault.

PGI fix.

*Tell me how ridiculous this sounds (ACH). 6xSML. I can fire 7 alphas without overheating. 30 damage. 30x7 = 210.

210 damage while holding down the alpha button while running, and you don't shut down to get killed.....IN A LIGHT.

Forgot to mention. JJ's, ECM, And enough armor and god hitboxes to stay alive the whole round.

Im absolutly with you.
I am a light Pilot.
The problem is, that teamplay isnt rewarded enough and its mutch more chalenging.
I pilot the Raven with narc and tag and 2 mpl. All modules are on scouting. Exept mpl-range. But its hard work and isnt rewarded in matchscore. And People are lasy mostly. So they take meta.
Greetings Phex

[Soldier91]

Jazzbandit1313, on 12 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

*Tell me how ridiculous this sounds (ACH). 6xSML. I can fire 7 alphas without overheating. 30 damage. 30x7 = 210.

210 damage while holding down the alpha button while running, and you don't shut down to get killed.....IN A LIGHT.

Funny I was just about to patch the game because I wanted to play my 6SML FS9 build, aside from having pathetic range where a light can get blown away in one alpha these things are not suppose to have ghost heat but firing off 6 small lasers my heat bar will go up 50% or more easily even though it's just 12 heat i'll get one or two shots off with it (with hit reg it even with 4 alphas that's like 18x4=72 damage it'll fail to strip the armor off it I'll count how many hits I had on a specific mech go to the mech lab and notice how much max armor it can mount and a lot of a time it's a lot less than what I'm theoretically suppose to be doing.)
Tags are worth while to carry. Narc's don't have enough incentive. UAV's heh well bought a JMD-A put 6 SRM6's on it a level 5 SRM6 cooldown mod, engine in it, ect let you guess how many cbills it took because I can't roll that build and had to rebuild it again due to hit reg, don't really have cbills left over for a UAV. Besides why do you expect lights to have to spot everything they have the least armor and spotting means exposing them self to the most damage and focus fire that doesn't make any sense to turn lights into front line eyeballs aside them being fast mediums have the right balance of tonnage vs engine size to be faster than lights with more armor and should be scouts, even my catapult A1 gets shredded trying to NARC anything and it's got 3x as much armor as a light. lights are small and pack a punch seems fine.

Edited by Soldier91, 12 October 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

And it could be that way again, except that heavy armour made smaller mechs designed around a single large weapon rather pointless.

Imagine how scary a Hollander would be to any medium mech in the game if we did not have doubled armour.

Blame convergence for that. Convergence is why they had to double armor.

Quote

Unfortunately, until/unless PGI does something to cut down the number of hardpoints across the board and encourage people to run varied builds, that would never work.

Most mechs only have their stock mech hardpoints anyway. You wanna give mechs less than their stock loadouts? Thats silly...

The problem isnt the number of hardpoints. The problem is all those hardpoints being able to fire at the same location, i.e. convergence.

Virtually every single weapon balance problem this game has is caused by convergence. We know it. PGI knows it. Yet in 3 years PGI has completely failed to implement a satisfactory solution to convergence. Weapons/mechs can never truly be balanced in this game as long as convergence exists; because it will always favor boating similar weapons and mechs that boat will always be favored over those that cant.

Edited by Khobai, 12 October 2015 - 10:37 PM.

[Aresye]

Endost33L, on 12 October 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

There are light mechs that need that balance. For example 2 days ago i bought an FS9-A and started leveling it , in my second match i did ~750 dmg and 4 kills (lost the game tho damit) first thing that came in my mind was what is going to happen if i elite this one up, its allready performing amazingy
Another guy streaming this week facekilled 3 assaults in his ACH (heimdelight?) in a 10 second period (that was awesome btw), these things of course piss off players and they are going to ask for balance, you cannot deny that nomatter how biased you are.

So you had a good game and that's that eh? Firestarter OP right? Try running your non-elited Firestarter in the group queue against some of the better teams and see how "OP" it really is.

LOL at the second part. Heimdelight is one of the best players in MWO, and part of one of the best units. He could rock a stock Urbanmech and make players cry for nerfs.

[Kotzi]

Its deathmatch, why shouldnt i take the most possible loadout in numbers? Scouting is a joke, Guiding your team to victory and receiving jack. Only weapon that needs scout is too nooby, easymode and nobody should use them according to the so called pros. Thus nobody uses them and this rends your narc/tag useless.

[Spleenslitta]

I've done my share to make MWO more diverse. I made a guide on unorthodox light/fast medium mech tactics.
Non Meta Light Mech Tactics Guide.

But i also managed to convince 2 players to use my tactics. 1 of them is completly hooked. He always uses at least 1 long range weapon in his loadout these days.
As for myself....i use this KFX build most of the time. cERSL, cERML, cER PPC, 4 MG's, ECM, 6JJ.

All my builds focus on being capable of striking at both short and long range. If possible i include a middle range weapon too.
The philosophy is that all those pure short range builds sometimes stumble across huge opportunities to strike at long range, but they can't do anything because they do not have the weapons for it.
Those opportunities are wasted and thus they do less damage.

Pure long range builds often end up fighting at close ranges no matter how hard they try to prevent it. Having some short range weapons gives them a better fighting chance.

[Black Ivan]

Problem ACH and FS9 are so much better than the other lights and there is not even the smallest thing of role warfare in MWO.

[DivineTomatoes]

So you want to penalise one of the least played classes because you have bad situational awareness and is generally just incompetent.

Instead of whining about your mistakes and demanding a nerf so you can have easy mode why don't you see what you did wrong.

Keep a eye on your six.

Keep a few more points of back armour.

360 target retention and seismic.

Back against a wall


Oh wait because that's effort and tears are easier.

Edited by Reaver2145, 12 October 2015 - 11:32 PM.

[627]

At the beginning I thought this was about the 3 second jenner; but it is even worse...

But I can answer one question: Why do light mechs take smaller Lasers?

Because... *wait for it*... there are no other weapons that fit!

Yes, that simple. There is no balistic weapon beside MGs that you can use without making a very special (and gimped) build. And if you do, you will be slower than the same mech with only lasers. It is the same for PPCs by the way.

So missiles then? Seriously... Ok, LRM on light mechs are lousy at best, you won't fit anything bigger than 2-4 LRM5s with very few ammo. LRMs in this game, thanks to ECM and AMS and map design and people-not-being-dumb need very much ammo to even get some decent damage scores.

Ok, what about SRMs? Those you'll find. On two overquirked mechs, namely Hugginn and Oxide. After that, some Panthers and Commandos but if there's a way to use more energy than missiles on these mechs, people will use those.
SRMs for light mechs are pretty heavy and shotgun weapons need much ammo to make more than dents in enemy mechs.

So all you have are lasers.


I know this is a dead horse but have you ever piloted a light mech? How hard it is to get into the back of a fresh assault mech? That is alone? And to dumb to get his back on a wall?
By the way, assaults start at 80 tons and beside the whale and Atlas, nearly all Assaults can track a circling light with some maneuver skills.
Maybe you just need a bit more back armor and a seismic sensor.