54 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Dimento Graven, on 13 October 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

No, pretty sure it was when a certain PGI employee got all butthurt when he was griefed by certain players back when collisions were possible.

Very shortly after the publication of THIS vid, collisions were peremptorily removed.


To me it felt very spiteful and was one of the first, "EFFF IT! WE'LL JUST REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY FIXING IT!" moves made by PGI/IGP.

Incorrect actually, you DO see rubber-banding, but it happens only when one of the 'mechs is moving at a high rate of speed, or if two 'mechs are occupying the same X,Y coordinates.

EDIT: Oh and when one 'mech has a really ****** ping...

You still don't see it nearly as often as you did before they removed collision and knockdowns though.

[Dimento Graven]

Jetfire, on 13 October 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

...

Additionally you could use the same mechanic for DFA. This would limit accidental DFA from friendlies. Think of it like performing a drop kick.

...

DFA could also be a preventative measure of some people exploiting the ability of one 'mech riding another 'mech currently in the game.

I've got a vid of that (also shows wicked rubber banding too), link only though, for what should be obvious reason: THE LINK


EDIT: Fixed it I think.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 13 October 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Dimento Graven, on 13 October 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

No, pretty sure it was when a certain PGI employee got all butthurt when he was griefed by certain players back when collisions were possible.

Very shortly after the publication of THIS vid, collisions were peremptorily removed.

I thought of that as I was typing. I think there were multiple factors. Vicious warping was one, but I'm guessing what went down in that video was the last nail in the coffin.

[Jetfire]

Dimento Graven, on 13 October 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

DFA could also be a preventative measure of some people exploiting the ability of one 'mech riding another 'mech currently in the game.

I've got a vid of that (also shows wicked rubber banding too), link only though, for what should be obvious reason: [link][/link]

You could... but honestly upping collision damage would handle that much better and keep DFA uniquely tune-able.

[InRev]

Am I the only one who loved the Lambada reference?

Man, that is going to be stuck in my head all day now.

[Dimento Graven]

InRev, on 13 October 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Am I the only one who loved the Lambada reference?

Man, that is going to be stuck in my head all day now.

Originally was going to go with a 'Dirty Dancing' theme, but didn't really find any of that soundtrack that matched the action, and also brought to mind the actual THEME of "Dirty Dancing"...

So... Went with Lambada, because EVERYONE knows it's the "Forbidden Dance", which makes this funny...

[Lugh]

Obelus, on 13 October 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

They should structure physical attacks to be like very short range LBX with long recharge times, and long firing times. And only for mechs with hands.

I'd disagree. HSR needs to recognize when Limb a, from mech 11 crosses into the area occupied by mech 22 at location 1-8 then apply damage of x amount * speed of impact and so on.

This way a mech without hands could swing his arms wide and clothes line a mech running past him, get spun, apply damage, receive damage to the arm, should actuator, and hip actuator, and then have a chance of knockdown.

[SgtMagor]

want to see MWO's forum explode with excitement and happy happy thoughts. lets see melee, physical attacks, collisions, and knockdowns from mechs and weapons added. been waiting for a long time, I miss my Daishi from MW4 knocking over Atlas's like bowling pins with 110+ alpha at point blank range )

[Dimento Graven]

SgtMagor, on 13 October 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

want to see MWO's forum explode with excitement and happy happy thoughts. lets see melee, physical attacks, collisions, and knockdowns from mechs and weapons added. been waiting for a long time, I miss my Daishi from MW4 knocking over Atlas's like bowling pins with 110+ alpha at point blank range )

Just having knockdowns would eliminate light/medium 'mech pinballing tactics.

No more lights shoving themselves into larger 'mechs to exploit larger 'mech narrow turn radius and limited torso 'bend' movements.

They'd actually have to CAREFULLY navigate AROUND larger 'mechs...

[Bilbo]

Dimento Graven, on 13 October 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

Just having knockdowns would eliminate light/medium 'mech pinballing tactics.

No more lights shoving themselves into larger 'mechs to exploit larger 'mech narrow turn radius and limited torso 'bend' movements.

They'd actually have to CAREFULLY navigate AROUND larger 'mechs...

This is the biggest thing I miss since knockdowns were removed. It used to so easy to knock the damn things down and blow them into tiny litlle pieces when they wanted to stand on your toes or try to sit in your rear.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I see physical attacks being workable only if very limited in implementation.

1 - Mechs without Hand Actuators can't perform them at all, aside from ramming damage, which would be mutual damage to both parties.

2 - Hand actuators let you punch with a button press. If only one arm has one, it's the one that punches, if both do, you do a double punch. Punches hit for tonnage/10 damage (Atlas does 20 damage total if both fists land).

3 - Hatchets (and other specialized melee weapons, but start with Hatchets) will replace punching. They do tonnage/5 damage. One Hatchet matches two hand actuator punches, but it hits a single location instead of being spread by the space between the two arms on the punching mech. If you have two Hatchets, you button press will have a dual strike with both. Hatchets would be IS-only, and only equippable on arms that have a hand actuator.

This lets PGI limit the scope of new animations that they'd need, while also keeping the basic mechanic simple and straightforward. It also makes the damage that melee hits do potent enough to matter, especially for the big, slow mechs.

[Dimento Graven]

We have 6 weapons groups now.

Most people I know don't use more than 4 of them.

Punching could be mapped to weapon group 5, and kicking to 6.

Charging and DFA could just be a function of pilot skill...

[TLBFestus]

Not a fan of melee, not one bit.

Too much in the way of opportunity for griefers to enjoy it, so I thank the Internet Gods that make it a can-o-worms to implement in this game.

[Dimento Graven]

TLBFestus, on 13 October 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Not a fan of melee, not one bit.

Too much in the way of opportunity for griefers to enjoy it, so I thank the Internet Gods that make it a can-o-worms to implement in this game.

There's so much in this game that's open to griefers it's silly to even worry about it...

[Lugh]

Dimento Graven, on 13 October 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

We have 6 weapons groups now.

Most people I know don't use more than 4 of them.

Punching could be mapped to weapon group 5, and kicking to 6.

Charging and DFA could just be a function of pilot skill...

I'm wondering why you'd need a weapon group for it, when all you need to do is get the collision code turned on for all components of a mech and then through the animations you already have for raising and lowering arms and all the rest you have melee?Oh wait jabs. Ok sure for jabs. Crosses would be covered with torso twisting and upper cuts with a combo of twists and arm up commands.

Might help to break up the tightness of ye old death ball a lot too...

Mmmm. Sounds yummy. Also sounds like something that is far beyond what PGI has proven capable of thus far. I defy Paul to prove me wrong and turn collisions back on....

[Burktross]

I have hope... but there are no signs.

[Ted Wayz]

Physical attacks, sure. Could be implemented as a module with a cool down. But no limb no attack so may run into same situation.

Enough with the knockdowns. Wouldn't happen unless the mech lost the computer that controls the gyros, and the head is gone therefore the mech is already dead, or both legs are gone, and the mech is already dead.

Just give up on knockdowns. They never have ad never will make any sense.

[Lugh]

Ted Wayz, on 13 October 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

Physical attacks, sure. Could be implemented as a module with a cool down. But no limb no attack so may run into same situation.

Enough with the knockdowns. Wouldn't happen unless the mech lost the computer that controls the gyros, and the head is gone therefore the mech is already dead, or both legs are gone, and the mech is already dead.

Just give up on knockdowns. They never have ad never will make any sense.

You haven't played TT or any of the other Mechwarrior games before have you. I can tell because Knockdowns(even here in early beta days) are an absolutely PRICELESS mechanic for controlling counter fire.

You know what made my Dragon so awesome in CB days that I had a 3-1 KDR on it? It wasn't the awe inspiring fire power. It wasn't that it was fast. It was that it had Adequate firepower, increased ability to do knockdowns, and excel'd at controlling firefights because of it.

In past games collisions with Death From Above allowed some glorious no weapons needed kills.

In past games Critical hits to those Gyros and targeting systems you mentioned (hello PPC EMP effect) cause mech controls to falter.

Aw, can't turn to the right? Too bad here's another Center Gyroscope crit did you fall down? Too bad!! There were more interesting ways of killing a mech than simply stripping off all it's important parts.

They absolutely belong here. That they were taken away and nothing has been done to get them working again in almost 3 full years doesn't speak well to PGI's expertise with programming, and speaks even less well of spiteful reasoning behind it going away.
The official line was teleporting transposition is hard to resolve and we are taking it out until we get that resolved(and people didn't like it). That was some complete BS, the good pilots knew to hold their shot until the transposition had completed.

Again I defy Paul to prove me wrong and bring it all back. That and improve it.

Edited by Lugh, 13 October 2015 - 11:25 AM.

[Ted Wayz]

I still have my box sets and all the books and played TT when it first came out. The group I started out with and every one since had at least one person who understood engineering and/or science/physics like myself and we always removed knockdowns.

Modern day gyros and movement systems can prevent knockdowns. Futuristic ones more so.

Don't confuse Death from Above with running into another mech. Two completely different mechanics.

But riddle me this, tell me how some of the mechs if they got knocked down would get back up? Cicada? Jenner? Blackjack? It just doesn't work.

[Lootee]

Lugh, on 13 October 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

You haven't played TT or any of the other Mechwarrior games before have you. I can tell because Knockdowns(even here in early beta days) are an absolutely PRICELESS mechanic for controlling counter fire.

You know what made my Dragon so awesome in CB days that I had a 3-1 KDR on it? It wasn't the awe inspiring fire power. It wasn't that it was fast. It was that it had Adequate firepower, increased ability to do knockdowns, and excel'd at controlling firefights because of it.

In past games collisions with Death From Above allowed some glorious no weapons needed kills.

In past games Critical hits to those Gyros and targeting systems you mentioned (hello PPC EMP effect) cause mech controls to falter.

Aw, can't turn to the right? Too bad here's another Center Gyroscope crit did you fall down? Too bad!! There were more interesting ways of killing a mech than simply stripping off all it's important parts.

They absolutely belong here. That they were taken away and nothing has been done to get them working again in almost 3 full years doesn't speak well to PGI's expertise with programming, and speaks even less well of spiteful reasoning behind it going away.
The official line was teleporting transposition is hard to resolve and we are taking it out until we get that resolved(and people didn't like it). That was some complete BS, the good pilots knew to hold their shot until the transposition had completed.

Again I defy Paul to prove me wrong and bring it all back. That and improve it.

Lol yea right. How many months has it been since they said they were going to change the JesusBox number from 180 to 90?

Species spring to life, evolve, and go extinct faster than anything happens in mwo.

Edited by Lootee, 13 October 2015 - 11:38 AM.