572 replies to this topic

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Some days I am glad I don't play anymore. Clan and IS are little different now.
Warthunder and heavy Gear will have to stay as my replacements awhile longer I guess.
I haven't even played my Wave 3 Clan mechs once after paying a lot for them.

[RedDevil]

I was always hoping for the 12 vs 10 system, pitting an IS Light Company against a Clan Binary =(

[Arrogusss]

SO......?
I come back to check things out after a 6 mos. Solid Break.
Large threads and test servers on Nerfing Clan Mechs to The GROUND???

Been playing a sort of "popular" money house game called WOT pretty hard, (650 million usd. adjusted gross income for that company last year). Spent more money on that game in one total year of play then I ever thought I would. Could have built a current or even Next generation, multiple video card top of the line/mountain computer with a $200 keyboard and a $100 mouse for what I spent on that.
A few years ago I spent quite a bit on this game, through mech packages, expensive colors and camos, and mainly xp and gxp conversion for modules, even bought mechs at the beginning and sold them back for half to harvest some in game currency before it could be bought (expensive).
So I come back last week telling myself how amazing this game really is, and how much they/you have done. I see a Warhammer for sale and marauder... like Harmony Gold?? wtf is going on here. All excited. Always wanted a stormcrow so I drop 30 bucks on MC, pimp it out a bit and start grinding c-bills for 2 other variants.. Blah Blah Blah.
NERFING CLAN LASERS 40 PERCENT??
Isn't 40 percent a bit extreme?? 25% would have seemed like a let down from the "Superior Clan Tech" the clans were bringing to the game when you were Pushing clan mech packs upwards of 200 dollars, and GOLD mechs for 500.. five friggin hundred..pffft.
Have you run out of clan mechs and now want to push the classic IS mechs for the next year, nerf the heck out of clans to actually push IS sales?? yes, that's exactly the plan.
You add 3rd person and a "training grounds" for new players, but are making this game too technical.
I have to spend about an hour or two next week at a friends house explaining to him how to properly loadout and balance mechs in this game (weight, damage, heat, key binding and weapons groups). Some people just DONT GET IT "at first".
I'm sure he would end up spending 200-300 over the next year once he got into it, that is IF I SUGGEST HE CONTINUE.
This mech rebalance thing is new to me and seems shafty and cheap of you guys.
REMOVING THE RED HIT CONFIRMATION IN RECTICLE IS A BIG MISTAKE. Especially for newer players, and especially when it seems like hit registration is still pretty friggedUp depending on the weapon/map/situation.
So Have I spent 500 plus dollars on this "free to play" game so far?? Yes I have. Will I spend another 500 over the next year or so, probably not if you are making long posts and test servers specifically made for a NERFING-FEST.
Will I spend as much as I have on WOT over the next year on MWO?? Well I could afford to, and I would like to; but you better cut this out NOW, and step it up. HD mechs and map option for those of us with decent computers, get a few Badass commercials on the television to increase the player base and popularity... and did I mention that nobody likes a game that pulls "bait and switches" with the nerf-hammer after they spent hundreds and even thousands of dollars on a game, regardless of the terms of use and license agreement that says you can do so at any time.
Don't kill Clanner tech, and keep the game as complicated as it is now but NO MORE complicated.

My useless rant, but if I didn't say anything I couldn't continue to play.

Edited by Arrogusss, 16 October 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[Night Thastus]

As a clanner, I actually love these changes. Except the reticle, that's a bit broken.

Otherwise, especially the laser change is really nice. All Clan lasers are still better than their IS counterparts, the only difference is now they're "Extended Range" and not "Extremely Rediculous Range".

[CptGier]

How is that heat sink change playing out for Clan mechs?

More dissipation but less capacity?

[Night Thastus]

CptGier, on 16 October 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

How is that heat sink change playing out for Clan mechs?

More dissipation but less capacity?

Correct. Dissipation went from 1.4 to 1.5

Capacity went from 1.4 to 1.2

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

left it on for a 30 min search can't get in, so this testing IS NOT WORKING.

[Liquid Leopard]

C J Sparrow, on 16 October 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

As an exclusively IS pilot, even though it's only PTS I can't wait to swim in the torrent of clanner tears.

The Arctic Cheater is still the king of lag shield exploits. I didn't see a lot of clanner tears there.

[Liquid Leopard]

Arrogusss, on 16 October 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

did I mention that nobody likes a game that pulls "bait and switches" with the nerf-hammer after they spent hundreds and even thousands of dollars on a game...?

The forum is rife with comments to that effect, dating back to Open Beta.
If PGI was going to listen, they could have done so by now.

Arrogusss, on 16 October 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

My useless rant, but if I didn't say anything I couldn't continue to play.

Same here. I put in my 2 cents knowing that PGI could turn a blind eye to THOUSANDS of posts that told them we didn't want 3PV.

[KuroNyra]

Rebel Ace Fryslan, on 17 October 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

left it on for a 30 min search can't get in, so this testing IS NOT WORKING.

Or you know? You can also stop the search and restart it?

It's not like that stuff can bug and searching in a loop. Happen sometimes in MWO. Or War Thunder, or World of Tank, or Armored Warfare.

Liquid Leopard, on 17 October 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Same here. I put in my 2 cents knowing that PGI could turn a blind eye to THOUSANDS of posts that told them we didn't want 3PV.

Ho the tears from the NO 3PV. Seriously dude, 3PV ain't a big deal. All the others game had it before. MW2, MW3 and MW4. People were saying it would be OP. Heck, you HARDLY see someone using 3PV ingame.
Hopefully PGI DID NOT listen to the cry. It's not because a thousand guy say it's a legit technic to rush walking backward in a light mech that it's true and should be listened.

Edited by KuroNyra, 17 October 2015 - 08:59 AM.

[CptGier]

Night Thastus, on 16 October 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

Correct. Dissipation went from 1.4 to 1.5

Capacity went from 1.4 to 1.2

I kinda notice the faster dissipation. My HBR with 4 ERML and a LPL is pretty much a non stop wall of pew pew....Ofc, im prolly doing it wrong, duo firing 2 ML and single firing the LPL instead of just going....fire all the lazorz....but still, I kinda like the faster dissipation.

[Thomas G Wolf]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 16 October 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

Some days I am glad I don't play anymore. Clan and IS are little different now.
Warthunder and heavy Gear will have to stay as my replacements awhile longer I guess.
I haven't even played my Wave 3 Clan mechs once after paying a lot for them.

Sorry you disqualified yourself when you said that you still play War Thunder the worst rip off russian piece of shite ever. LOL please stay there we will not miss you as you have no idear what a good game is.

[J0anna]

After playing around for a few hours, I have the following thoughts/comments:

Changes to weapon health - hardly noticeable, to be meaningful should be more.

Changes to Single heat sinks - don't care, they are supposed to be worthless. However I have a suggestion below.

Changes to clan DHS - ok with reduced capacity (more below), but dissipation should be 1.6 (an increase closer to the percentage lost). This hurts the weaker clan mechs more due to lack of tonnage for HS.

Reduction in ER laser range - not a bad idea, but I think 25% might have been a better place to start. Especially with delays in targeting coming.

Loss of targeting reticle flash - extremely bad, since visual image does not represent what is happing on the server, the reticle flash is vital to get feedback on your shot. You simple can't look at the enemy target info panel while you shoot if you expect to hit. The reticle flash is very important to help players (especially new players) learn how to aim. All players need this feedback.

Ghost damage - interesting concept, like above I'd like to lose 25% optimal rather than 40. Additionally I would like to see more than just the optimal numbers change. Would it be possible to change the color of the weapon in the status panel (to like dark blue) to visually show players that those weapons are going to suffer reduced damage due to lack of targeting. But overall an interesting solution. I would like to try the loss of 25% optimal since we haven't seen effect of the delay in targeting. Take it to the extreme, lets say it takes an atlas 15 minutes to target an enemy, well we've reduced his damage output by a significant amount. Sounds silly, but think of it this way, you rarely keep aim on good players for more than a few seconds, so if it takes a few seconds to actually lock them, you will rarely hit them for full damage anyway.


ECM changes - it is now pretty much useless, however when targeting time becomes an issue, it might be useful on some mechs, so the jury's out on this.

Heat sinks, could we possibly test the following:

Hard lock all mechs at a 30 heat cap and make double heat sinks true doubles (this would enable the removal of ghost heat). Then if you want to boost single heat sinks, allow them to increase heat cap (with this 1.1 removal rate) finally make the upgrade to double heat sinks do the following:

1) Change all engine heat sinks to doubles.

2) Allow the mech to use either doubles or singles in the mech. Now mechs that have tonnage available but lack slots can put in some singles (as well as doubles) to help raise their heat cap. Even if we don't hard lock the heat cap, I would like to see this idea get on the PTS.

Weapons quirks, keep them removed. If you want to put some in the game, limit them to 5% (as the module to increase rate is still available). Instead for those mechs that lack weapons (or lack good weapon locations), give them substantial armor and structure buffs (substantial 30% to 50%). Oh and since mechs are becoming far less deadly, could we increase match time to 20 minutes?

Overall, I think these changes are heading in the right direction, but the numbers might be a bit much once the effects of delayed targeting come into play.

[Wintersdark]

Moenrg, on 17 October 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

After playing around for a few hours, I have the following thoughts/comments:

Changes to weapon health - hardly noticeable, to be meaningful should be more.

Maybe hardly noticable in a couple random matches, but they are actually extremely meaningful as it stands.

Currently, an AC10 can one-shot three separate intact internal components on a mech with 9 points of armor remaining in that location. With this change, a single 10 point hit - PPC, ERPPC, AC10 - cannot oneshot multiple components and can only oneshot a single component if multiple crits all hit the same component. It's a pretty major difference.

Quote

Changes to Single heat sinks - don't care, they are supposed to be worthless. However I have a suggestion below.

They shouldn't be "supposed to be worthless". Having deliberately worthless things in the game is stupid.

Quote

Reduction in ER laser range - not a bad idea, but I think 25% might have been a better place to start. Especially with delays in targeting coming.

Keep in mind, the Clan lasers only lose 20% of their overall range with this change. It's 40% of the range from Optimal > Max, not the whole range band. At 25%, they'd only lose 12.5% of their total range.

Quote

Loss of targeting reticle flash - extremely bad, since visual image does not represent what is happing on the server, the reticle flash is vital to get feedback on your shot. You simple can't look at the enemy target info panel while you shoot if you expect to hit. The reticle flash is very important to help players (especially new players) learn how to aim. All players need this feedback.

The reticle flash still happens, but only if that enemy is targeted. Also, it's a shape change now and very subtle color change. The absolutely need to bring back the full color change (and keep the shape change for colorblind players) and go back to flashing on any hit.

I appreciate that they want to raise the important of target locking, but because visuals != actuality, a functional hit indicator is simply too important to mangle that way.

Quote

ECM changes - it is now pretty much useless, however when targeting time becomes an issue, it might be useful on some mechs, so the jury's out on this.

Not useless, but of usefulness on par with things like BAP. This seems fair enough to me, though I'd argue they ought to remove the hardpoint thing again as it's certainly not powerful enough to warrant the extra limitations.

Quote

Heat sinks, could we possibly test the following:

Hard lock all mechs at a 30 heat cap and make double heat sinks true doubles (this would enable the removal of ghost heat). Then if you want to boost single heat sinks, allow them to increase heat cap (with this 1.1 removal rate) finally make the upgrade to double heat sinks do the following:

DHS are true doubles due to pilot skills, incidentally, at roughly 17-20DHS. If you have less DHS than that, they are currently more than 2.0 per sink.

That said, I fully agree that low cap : high dissipation is absolutely the way to go. Low cap forces players to break up weapon fire, rather than alpha-all-the-time, while high dissipation keeps actual damage output comparable.

Quote

1) Change all engine heat sinks to doubles.

Mandatory if they want SHS to have any role at all.

Quote

2) Allow the mech to use either doubles or singles in the mech. Now mechs that have tonnage available but lack slots can put in some singles (as well as doubles) to help raise their heat cap. Even if we don't hard lock the heat cap, I would like to see this idea get on the PTS.

Mixed sinks in the mech is a very intriguing idea.

Quote

Weapons quirks, keep them removed. If you want to put some in the game, limit them to 5% (as the module to increase rate is still available). Instead for those mechs that lack weapons (or lack good weapon locations), give them substantial armor and structure buffs (substantial 30% to 50%). Oh and since mechs are becoming far less deadly, could we increase match time to 20 minutes?

Yeah, I definitely don't want to see huge weapon quirks again. It really mangles weapon balancing: Oh, we can't fix ERPPC's or that mech with 50% ERPPC buffs will be totally broken!

Quote

Overall, I think these changes are heading in the right direction, but the numbers might be a bit much once the effects of delayed targeting come into play.

I'm curious if they're actually going to delay targeting (a terrible idea IMHO) or just target data acquisition (the paper doll/etc). Delaying targeting completely I think is going to be a hot mess of trying to figure out if your press of "R" was missed, or if it's just lag (as targeting is server side and thus delayed by 2xping) or being delayed from equipment or whatever else.

[J0anna]

Wintersdark, on 17 October 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

Mixed sinks in the mech is a very intriguing idea.

Ironically enough this was a house rule in our TT group from over 20 years ago. I'm pretty sure I didn't come up with it, but we always allowed it when we were playing non-stock mechs. Plus it would make singles useful (IF we want tech 1 equipment to be useful, and I am not a proponent of this) if they are the only thing that can raise heat cap (i.e. give doubles just the 2x dissipation).

[NocturnalBeast]

PGI, DO NOT get rid of the red hit confirmation on the reticle! The hit confirmation is especially useful on maps with low visibility. All that removing this will do is encourage the "top tier" players to go to greater lengths in order to strip down the graphics in order to keep their advantage.

[Coralld]

Arrogusss, on 16 October 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

SO......?
I come back to check things out after a 6 mos. Solid Break.
Large threads and test servers on Nerfing Clan Mechs to The GROUND???

Been playing a sort of "popular" money house game called WOT pretty hard, (650 million usd. adjusted gross income for that company last year). Spent more money on that game in one total year of play then I ever thought I would. Could have built a current or even Next generation, multiple video card top of the line/mountain computer with a $200 keyboard and a $100 mouse for what I spent on that.
A few years ago I spent quite a bit on this game, through mech packages, expensive colors and camos, and mainly xp and gxp conversion for modules, even bought mechs at the beginning and sold them back for half to harvest some in game currency before it could be bought (expensive).
So I come back last week telling myself how amazing this game really is, and how much they/you have done. I see a Warhammer for sale and marauder... like Harmony Gold?? wtf is going on here. All excited. Always wanted a stormcrow so I drop 30 bucks on MC, pimp it out a bit and start grinding c-bills for 2 other variants.. Blah Blah Blah.
NERFING CLAN LASERS 40 PERCENT??
Isn't 40 percent a bit extreme?? 25% would have seemed like a let down from the "Superior Clan Tech" the clans were bringing to the game when you were Pushing clan mech packs upwards of 200 dollars, and GOLD mechs for 500.. five friggin hundred..pffft.
Have you run out of clan mechs and now want to push the classic IS mechs for the next year, nerf the heck out of clans to actually push IS sales?? yes, that's exactly the plan.
You add 3rd person and a "training grounds" for new players, but are making this game too technical.
I have to spend about an hour or two next week at a friends house explaining to him how to properly loadout and balance mechs in this game (weight, damage, heat, key binding and weapons groups). Some people just DONT GET IT "at first".
I'm sure he would end up spending 200-300 over the next year once he got into it, that is IF I SUGGEST HE CONTINUE.
This mech rebalance thing is new to me and seems shafty and cheap of you guys.
REMOVING THE RED HIT CONFIRMATION IN RECTICLE IS A BIG MISTAKE. Especially for newer players, and especially when it seems like hit registration is still pretty friggedUp depending on the weapon/map/situation.
So Have I spent 500 plus dollars on this "free to play" game so far?? Yes I have. Will I spend another 500 over the next year or so, probably not if you are making long posts and test servers specifically made for a NERFING-FEST.
Will I spend as much as I have on WOT over the next year on MWO?? Well I could afford to, and I would like to; but you better cut this out NOW, and step it up. HD mechs and map option for those of us with decent computers, get a few Badass commercials on the television to increase the player base and popularity... and did I mention that nobody likes a game that pulls "bait and switches" with the nerf-hammer after they spent hundreds and even thousands of dollars on a game, regardless of the terms of use and license agreement that says you can do so at any time.
Don't kill Clanner tech, and keep the game as complicated as it is now but NO MORE complicated.

My useless rant, but if I didn't say anything I couldn't continue to play.

Pro tip. First read and properly comprehend whats going on and trying to be accomplished and try it out your self before making a really big rant post that makes you look like an idiot.
Also, these changes are in PTS, not live, and has been stated that the PTS will change and there is currently no limit for how long the PTS will last.
Now I can understand some peoples concerns given PGI's track record with how PTS's go but this is the first time they specifically said that there is no time limit.

Further more, the Clans are not being nerfed into the group, they simply had their laser damage drop-off range decreased, their optimal range stays the same and even the IS-ERLL got hit with this nerf.
Example:
C-ERML - Optimal range = 405m / Max range = 640m ish (down from 810m)

So, in conclusion, please cool your sh*t.

Edited by Coralld, 17 October 2015 - 07:06 PM.

[Frost Lord]

Wintersdark, on 17 October 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

The reticle flash still happens, but only if that enemy is targeted. Also, it's a shape change now and very subtle color change. The absolutely need to bring back the full color change (and keep the shape change for colorblind players) and go back to flashing on any hit.

I think that might be the case they wore working on colorblind stuff i think but they probably did it this way so it actually got tested

[Wintersdark]

Frost Lord, on 17 October 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

I think that might be the case they wore working on colorblind stuff i think but they probably did it this way so it actually got tested

Yeah, I get that - Russ talked about that on Twitter. I think it's a good idea; I just think they should keep the red flash as well as the new graphic, but more importantly it should work like it used to: It should flash/change shape on *any* hit, just not on hits on targeted mechs.

[Coralld]

Wintersdark, on 17 October 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

Yeah, I get that - Russ talked about that on Twitter. I think it's a good idea; I just think they should keep the red flash as well as the new graphic, but more importantly it should work like it used to: It should flash/change shape on *any* hit, just not on hits on targeted mechs.

I agree completely.

There are some people saying that now ECM is useless. I disagree, but, I do think it should give a % penalty to LRM accuracy and possibly make it so you can't bring up the mechs paper doll.