572 replies to this topic

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Ed Steele, on 14 October 2015 - 12:36 AM, said:

LOL, just LOL! Can you not afford Clan mechs? I have some one both of my accounts and yes they are nerfed, and yes I have switched back to IS.

P.S. My Mauler would kick your Mauler's butt anyday!

1) it was for fun
2) i have both sides mechs, 60-70% IS
3) it could be first time good balance between clanners and IS
4) My mauler will make from yours a puppy within 4 secs.

[Xhaleon]

Since PGI does not seem interested in matchmaking with uneven team numbers, making Clans and IS roughly balanced in performance is the only way to go. Clantech being outright better only works when they are forced to face superior numbers or at least equal numbers of other Clantech, which is how it works in the original boardgame of course.

I'm going with Navid A1's idea that the 40% max range reduction is really

[optimal range] + [dropoff range * 0.6] = new max range

So CERLLs will now be 740 + 444 = 1184 meters which is very reasonable.

[NocturnalBeast]

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

1) it was for fun
2) i have both sides mechs, 60-70% IS
3) it could be first time good balance between clanners and IS
4) My mauler will make from yours a puppy within 4 secs.

Let's duel then!

[Kin3ticX]

Xhaleon, on 14 October 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

Since PGI does not seem interested in matchmaking with uneven team numbers, making Clans and IS roughly balanced in performance is the only way to go. Clantech being outright better only works when they are forced to face superior numbers or at least equal numbers of other Clantech, which is how it works in the original boardgame of course.

I'm going with Navid A1's idea that the 40% max range reduction is really

[optimal range] + [dropoff range * 0.6] = new max range

So CERLLs will now be 740 + 444 = 1184 meters which is very reasonable.

Thats what it looks like. The 40% is only the dropoff, so Clans lasers will still have better optimum ranges but decay quicker.

[Wintersdark]

Bloodweaver, on 13 October 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

3) gets dissipated more slowly due to inferior DHS

While other elements where correct, Clan DHS have the same dissipation as IS DHS (0.15HPS; more than the current 0.14HPS), and are still smaller. Please, when you're ranting, take the time to ensure you know WTF you're talking about.

[Vellron2005]

Xhaleon, on 14 October 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

Since PGI does not seem interested in matchmaking with uneven team numbers, making Clans and IS roughly balanced in performance is the only way to go. Clantech being outright better only works when they are forced to face superior numbers or at least equal numbers of other Clantech, which is how it works in the original boardgame of course.

I'm going with Navid A1's idea that the 40% max range reduction is really

[optimal range] + [dropoff range * 0.6] = new max range

So CERLLs will now be 740 + 444 = 1184 meters which is very reasonable.

Since PGI is clearly not interested in lore based troup count, maybe they should balance the "differences" a lot more subtly..

Clan mechs should have higher range, better flexibility and speed. IS mechs should have better heat menagement, pin-point accuracy and better mech variety.

Oh wait... things are ALREADY LIKE THAT.

Maybe they should just emphasize those differences?

What they should NOT do is make a Timberwolf just as good/bad as a Thunderbolt... that is absurd.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Vellron2005, on 14 October 2015 - 12:18 AM, said:

3) Lasers not doing full damage to non-target locked mechs from more than 60% range - For me, this one is the king of absurdity.

Its absurd enough that lasers, which are beams of focused light that travel at 300.000 kilometer/second HAVE A RANGE, and that this range is not expressed in thousands of kilometers, but limiting that range depending on sensor data?

i want shields, i want freeze mines, i want RAC20. all mine

[Widowmaker1981]

Xhaleon, on 14 October 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

Since PGI does not seem interested in matchmaking with uneven team numbers, making Clans and IS roughly balanced in performance is the only way to go. Clantech being outright better only works when they are forced to face superior numbers or at least equal numbers of other Clantech, which is how it works in the original boardgame of course.

I'm going with Navid A1's idea that the 40% max range reduction is really

[optimal range] + [dropoff range * 0.6] = new max range

So CERLLs will now be 740 + 444 = 1184 meters which is very reasonable.

It needs testing, but at face value with those stats:

IS-ERLL
Range 675
Max range 1350
Dmg 9
heat 8
duration 1.25
GH cap 3
tons 5, slots 2

vs C-ERLL
range 740
max range 1184
dmg 10
heat 10
duration 1.5
GH cap 2
Tons 4, slots 1

This seems fine at face value, the Clan laser is overall significantly worse, but its smaller and lighter, so thats ok (though i think it may be a tad too much worse now). HOWEVER Omnimechs pay a steep price in customisation (and therefore available tonnage) for their lighter equipment, and really? These changes are too much, unless PGI are also looking at unlocked ES/FF and DHS customisation in Omnis

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 14 October 2015 - 01:09 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Void Angel, on 13 October 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

I'm not understanding the bolded numbers - is that a typo?

The SHS dissipation rate is a typo - should be 0.1 increased to 0.11

The DHS are now 0.14 > 0.15.

[Kin3ticX]

Wintersdark, on 14 October 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

While other elements where correct, Clan DHS have the same dissipation as IS DHS (0.15HPS; more than the current 0.14HPS), and are still smaller. Please, when you're ranting, take the time to ensure you know WTF you're talking about.

What I like about this is they are starting to think about balance as Bulky-overengineerd rather than old-worse. So since the IS DHS are 3 crits vs 2 they have more cap. Sounds like a great idea to me.




You might see criss crossing on the lasers based on what we know but the Clan lasers still do full/more damage at their optimum range.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 14 October 2015 - 12:04 PM.

[POWR]

Reading threads like these the amount of "I can't understand what i'm reading and will now continue to post a very long post based off of my lack of understanding, using this lack of understanding to make up the most doomsday-worthy scenario possible" is just saddening... I thought Battletech audiences were supposed to be mature and intelligent.

[Vellron2005]

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 01:05 AM, said:

i want shields, i want freeze mines, i want RAC20. all mine

I just want to clarify, I didn't say thay should make lasers like that.. I pointed out that physics-wise, BT made them unrealistic in the first place.. but since they are as they are in BT, nerfing them as suggested would be an even greater leap from any notion of realism AND lore.. and one that should not be done.

Widowmaker1981, on 14 October 2015 - 01:05 AM, said:

It needs testing, but at face value with those stats:

IS-ERLL
Range 675
Max range 1350
Dmg 9
heat 8
duration 1.25
GH cap 3
tons 5, slots 2

vs C-ERLL
range 740
max range 1184
dmg 10
heat 10
duration 1.5
GH cap 2
Tons 4, slots 1

This seems fine at face value, the Clan laser is overall significantly worse, but its smaller and lighter, so thats ok (though i think it may be a tad too much worse now). HOWEVER Omnimechs pay a steep price in customisation (and therefore available tonnage) for their lighter equipment, and really? These changes are too much, unless PGI are also looking at unlocked ES/FF and DHS customisation in Omnis

An IS laser out-ranging a Clan laser of the same size... This is... well.. yet again.. absurd.

To be honest, I'm truly sad that PGI would even suggest this..

That very fact says sooo much about them.. and very little of it is good.

I'm not even disapointed.. just sad..

Edited by Vellron2005, 14 October 2015 - 01:19 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Kin3ticX, on 14 October 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

Thats what it looks like. The 40% is only the dropoff, so Clans lasers will still have better optimum ranges but decay quicker.

• Maximum Ranges for all Clan Lasers have been reduced by 40%.

C-ERLL has a max range of 1480 meters. 40% reduction means the new value is 888 meters.

Edited by Kmieciu, 14 October 2015 - 01:35 AM.

[Vellron2005]

POWR, on 14 October 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

Reading the amount of complete failure to understand what the first post states is just saddening. Where is the "intelligent and mature" Battletech audience?

Please enlighten us, oh great and wise POWR?

[POWR]

Vellron2005, on 14 October 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

Please enlighten us, oh great and wise POWR?

Just read and understand instead of coming up with all these random things...I'm just saddened by the complete lack of understanding of simple text being put on display.

[Kin3ticX]

Kmieciu, on 14 October 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

• Maximum Ranges for all Clan Lasers have been reduced by 40%.

ERLL has a max range of 1480 meters. 40% reduction means the new value is 888 meters.

That math cant be right.

Look at the ERML

If you reduce 405 by 40% you get 243m, less than a ML. Doubt PGI would do that.

[Wintersdark]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 October 2015 - 01:05 AM, said:

It needs testing, but at face value with those stats:

IS-ERLL
Range 675
Max range 1350
Dmg 9
heat 8
duration 1.25
GH cap 3
tons 5, slots 2

vs C-ERLL
range 740
max range 1184
dmg 10
heat 10
duration 1.5
GH cap 2
Tons 4, slots 1

This seems fine at face value, the Clan laser is overall significantly worse, but its smaller and lighter, so thats ok (though i think it may be a tad too much worse now). HOWEVER Omnimechs pay a steep price in customisation (and therefore available tonnage) for their lighter equipment, and really? These changes are too much, unless PGI are also looking at unlocked ES/FF and DHS customisation in Omnis

I'd certainly be happy with the weapon nerfing, given their lighter/smaller nature, if they also unlocked the omnimech customization.

After all, locked customization is a very poor means of balance: it doesn't create better balance or serve as a "disadvantage to counter other clan advantages" because it's a fixed, but not equally applied factor. It only serves to ruin mechs that don't have an optimal set of "locked" features, while it totally leaves those optimal mechs aside.

What people ultimately have to realize is that given an equal numbers game, Clan weapons are going to have to be - HAVE to be - actually worse than IS weapons. They are smaller, they are lighter, they are used alongside safer XL engines. That doesn't mean worse in all ways, but it does mean that the sum of them must be worse than the sum of IS weapons.

You can't have a faction mounting more, better weapons, and achieve balance.

Previously, they've attempted to balance the factions by adding quirks, but this has turned out to require massive quirks. Massive weapon quirks are basically identical in end result to simply having IS weapons be better weapons.

This method - nerfing the clan weapons - is exactly the same thing as buffing IS weapons (or extremely quirking IS mechs) except it reduces TTK instead of increasing it.

[Vellron2005]

POWR, on 14 October 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

Just read and understand instead of coming up with all these random things...I'm just saddened by the complete lack of understanding of simple text being put on display.

Its easy to simply state "oh, you don't understand"

So if you claim we don't understand.. please.. don't be shy... explain it to us.

We'd all be happy to "understand".

[Wintersdark]

Kmieciu, on 14 October 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

• Maximum Ranges for all Clan Lasers have been reduced by 40%.

ERLL has a max range of 1480 meters. 40% reduction means the new value is 888 meters.

The general consensus is that that makes no sense at all, and what they MEANT was the optimal range remains the same, and the band from Optimal to Maximum is reduced by 40%. Thus, cERLL: 740m Optimal, + (740*0.6) = 1184m maximum range; cERML: 405m Optimal, + (405*0.6) = 648m maximum range.


While my experience has been, PGI doesn't mean what "obviously makes sense", they mean exactly what they say... but we'll see in a couple hours.

[Igor Kozyrev]

Have you actually listened to the community this time?