180 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Kdogg788, on 14 October 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

+1 This. Lasers do not relay information back like a TAG. ER Large lasers are not enemy mech probes.

-k

Ding! And the quote.

Weapons are not a targeting computer. Things that add more depth to the gameplay and give it more of the immersive MW feel we've been hounding them for since the start, they start working towards that and people start crying before they even test it to see how its going to work out.

Personally I'm getting rather tired of CoD with mechs and lasers and am actually really happy they are making the effort to try to make the gameplay deeper through the mechanics - because very few players, even the ones that b&m about it being CoD with mechs are willing to do anything to change it at game time.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

SkyHammr, on 14 October 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

Then, you're a bad player and you should feel bad.
If you can't be troubled to press the R key, denying yourself the enemy paper doll telling you WHERE THE HELL TO SHOOT and letting your team know that, "Hey, there's something over here I'm shooting at, give me a hand," then you don't deserve reticle flash.
Fool.

Actually i see this behaviour a tons of times in T5. People know there is R key, but arent using it.
Its indeed ugly to see last two mechs alive doing this, no matter how away from target they are.

Edited by Titannium, 14 October 2015 - 05:24 AM.

[-Vompo-]

In all honesty I never even noticed my reticule flashing when shooting at someone. I actually had to look this up from a recorded game to see this happening. This cannot be such as huge deal...

[sycocys]

Also why do you need the reticule to light up? You can see where the mechs armor is getting melted and that lasts for several seconds. Easy enough to tell if you are hitting the enemy if you are actually paying attention to what you are doing.

[Clownwarlord]

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Suck it I target lock all the time!!! You *bleep*-hats who never target lock can suck it because it is irritating as hell to be dead and watch your team never target lock and fire at critical parts of the enemy mech. SO SUCK IT!!! and learn how to use the damn 'R' button!!!

[l33tworks]

Galenit, on 14 October 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

Use a combination of teamwork, bap, cap, tag, narc and you will have the same red flashing as now.
It only punishes people that dont use r and people that have to play with peoples not using r.

I dont know when the flashwhenyouuhit were inventend in gaming, but i remember a lot of games i played where this crutch was not implemented.

sycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

I'm either/or on this - will be a pain for new players but at the same time it will actually force players to target things if they want to see where/if they are doing damage.

You are completely right though, without targeting there's no way for you computer to know it hit a mech or hit a building or hit a rock. In that regard I'm 100% behind something like this, but for noobs and players that can't think maybe have it do some sort of flash for T5 players, so if you are competent and want lazy CoD mode you have to drop down out of the competition.

Contrary to what has been said by some here, its not a crutch. It is not arcade mode. What does that even mean? What arcade games have this? COD mode?

What the reticle flash is a layer of communication feedback between you and the server you are communicating with. It has nothing to do with mechs or or the type of game it is. It is a nod between two devices that commnucation has been received. A gentlemans agreement.

Its is implement in many types of game, where radar doesn't even exist, for example people don't have radar. But its in many FPS games as well.

[Lootee]

Lol. This rocks.

I hope this change goes live. If nothing else just to say to the idiots that thought ECM is fine to 'just dumb fire your lasers and cannons'.

Isn't it supposed to lower the damage you deal when you don't have a target lock too? That is so awesomesauce.

[Torgun]

I've stopped looking at the reticle for hit confirmation a long time ago since it's flashed so many times but led to no damage due to unreliable hitreg anyway.

[CDLord HHGD]

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Oh yes, but ofcrouse, the documentation is so ambiguous, who knows how its going to work when they say "The targeting reticle will no longer flash'" They could literally mean anything? Maybe your printer will start to print C bills

IF you see a hole labelled. Grinder machine, do not step inside you will be killed. Do you think Gee lets not judge what happens unitl we actually go in and see how it works.

Cmon man, are you serious?

What is it with people who think you have to try Anything and everything to know about it when some things are 100% self explanatory.
"How about having intercourse with a monkey while hanging upside down on a balcony eating bananas?
"No thanks"
"But How do you know if you like it or not if you haven't tried it?"

I know exactly what this change will do. make it very confusing to know whether you are dealing damage or not.

Obviously we know the reticule won't flash it a target isn't locked. Makes sense to me. What I was getting at you illiterate walnut is how impactful it's going to be when coupled with the other changes they are planning to make. Maybe I should switch to comic sans and different colors because I'm feeling the need to write this in crayon for you.

This is not a single change, this is a cocktail of changes designed to work together. I doubt you even went that far before you read one sentence and stroked out.

I am looking forward to not being lasered from across the map and for targets to actually be locked before we get any useful info from them. The L33Ts will actually have to work and think a little harder now...

[Clownwarlord]

Torgun, on 14 October 2015 - 05:43 AM, said:

I've stopped looking at the reticle for hit confirmation a long time ago since it's flashed so many times but led to no damage due to unreliable hitreg anyway.

I only use it to let myself know I get a hit with lrms so yeah again not an issue for me because I have to be locked on in the first place. The only issue I might have with it and that is when I had a locked and fired but I lose the lock which does happen but oh well I run the risk by using lrms then.

[0bsidion]

Sounds like a good change to me. Learn to lock your targets, viola, problem solved.

[Galenit]

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:

Its is implement in many types of game, where radar doesn't even exist, for example people don't have radar. But its in many FPS games as well.

When does this started was the question.

Sure, thats in a lot of new games.
But there are also a lot systems in the new games that makes the games more easy too.
Maybe you are to young to know all the old games and see how easy are all the new games.

In the old singleplayer games, less then 20% of the players were able to complete them.
Now you have easy games everyone can complete, like a participation reward and they invented archivments to give players a goal, because finishing the game is no goal anymore, because its too easy.

MWO was invented to be a thinking mans shooter,
reducing all the simple mechanics is a first step to this goal.

Edited by Galenit, 14 October 2015 - 06:00 AM.

[mariomanz28]

You know if they want the reticle flash to happen only if you're locked onto the mech, at least make it so when I press R with my crosshairs on a mech, it targets THAT MECH and not the one behind me, or to the side, or 1300m away.

As for those barking about realism...lol, this game and realism. If that's the case we need the C3 systems so not everyone can share targeting data unless they have those installed. I mean right now our mechs are magically linked to each other and we know what everyone else is targeting. Hell even LRM'ers can sit behind cover and lob missiles over said cover without even having to show their face just because their teammate locked it.

Also, want to talk about realism? I want the old thermal vision back. It's not realistic to think that 1000 years into the future we are using the same gray-scale thermal vision we have now, not to mention the old thermal is the way it was described in lore.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

As it has been said before and others seem to ignore, the reticle flash tells you that the server registered the hit, you cannot rely on your eyes in a network based game that has latency where the hit registration is server side. So outside of the realism aspect this is a tool that lets you know the server counted your hit (and you cannot always target a mech either).

Can't say I'm a big fan of the change but if it's going to go live at least make damn sure you fix the way targeting works and I don't have to spam the R key to get the target I'm pointing at.

[l33tworks]

cdlord, on 14 October 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

Obviously we know the reticule won't flash it a target isn't locked. Makes sense to me. What I was getting at you illiterate walnut is how impactful it's going to be when coupled with the other changes they are planning to make. Maybe I should switch to comic sans and different colors because I'm feeling the need to write this in crayon for you.

This is not a single change, this is a cocktail of changes designed to work together. I doubt you even went that far before you read one sentence and stroked out.

I am looking forward to not being lasered from across the map and for targets to actually be locked before we get any useful info from them. The L33Ts will actually have to work and think a little harder now...

Maybe there is a miscommunication here. I don't have issues with the other changes. You still wont be lasered from across the map any more or less if the reticle flashes or not. The damage reduction will still be there if not targetted. The point is I want to know if my damage is being registered or not. I still need to lag shoot sometimes, how will I know where to shoot without the damage reticle?.
Its easy for people to say just shoot at the glowing mech like sycocys who says "You can see where the mechs armor is getting melted and that lasts for several seconds", the lucky that have good connections, but these people still don't get the damage you see on your client is not the same as what the server sees.
Also I am sorry if my tone offended you, its not my intention, but almost necessary to make the point, I like to nail home a message with a lot of sarcasm.

SkyHammr, on 14 October 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

Then, you're a bad player and you should feel bad.
If you can't be troubled to press the R key, denying yourself the enemy paper doll telling you WHERE THE HELL TO SHOOT and letting your team know that, "Hey, there's something over here I'm shooting at, give me a hand," then you don't deserve reticle flash.
Fool.

First of all I am not a bad player.

Even if I were bad why should I feel bad? I should be able to be a bad player and still have the same "feels" as a good player. Just because someone doesn't play according to how you think is a "good" way to play doesn't meant they are not valid ways of playing.

I should be able to deny myself the paper doll without pentalty. what you don't seem to get is the paper doll is meaningless to me, because I always just aim wherever I think has teh highest place of registering a shot. Why? Because there is no point going for individual components if game doesn't register where you shoot properly. If a mech is moving I'd be lucky to register hits on the mech at all. Its just how its been for me, my net is pretty patchy, so the paper doll telling me where the hell to shoot, doesn't mean much to me because trying to isolate that component is next to impossible unless the mech is standing still, which rarely happens so I just aim wherever I can to get a hit.
On a light, I Still have to lag shoot sometimes, to get a hit, so the hit reticle is crucial to know how far ahead into thin air to aim.

If I am alone or I think there are mechs my team doesn't know about, I do target to give my team some data, but its not to get help from them, and not to look at where to shoot. That stuff doesn't help me. Im usually the guy to charge into a brawl during a stand off anyway so everyone knows about it.

If I want to play blind without targeting data i should be able to without being punished further than not being able to isolate components or knowing where to shoot. Leave that to me, but don't force extra penalties for it.

Edited by l33tworks, 14 October 2015 - 06:21 AM.

[sycocys]

How about this idea - take it off the reticule and put a dot somewhere on the hud?

Tiny little 'server confirmed damage' dot in the top right or even better on your weapons group box. If you have to rely on this for whatever reason - bad ping for instance - then its there but also out of the way so you have to actually move your eye focus a little bit to keep the pray and spray at shadows down.

It shouldn't be easy to confirm damage on targets that your targeting computer can't even register as a target - basically you should not be able to immediately tell at 1k meters if you are hitting a mech or a rock without having that mech info shared and targeted.

Edited by sycocys, 14 October 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[xCico]

So you will have to stare at the enemy to get 100% of damage. That change is really not needed.

[BattleBunny]

They better fix every invisible wall in this game if they make this change.

[CDLord HHGD]

Hey, I just learned from another thread that if you are not meta, you're a bad player ans should just quit playing the game!

How about PGI separate the T1 and T2 players from the rest so they can have their exploit-ridden back-slapping circle jerk and it won't negatively impact the rest of the tiers or game?

[Hotthedd]

xCico, on 14 October 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

So you will have to stare at the enemy to get 100% of damage. That change is really not needed.

That hasn't seemed to bother the hundreds of Large Laser users I always see.

[l33tworks]

Galenit, on 14 October 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

When does this started was the question.

Sure, thats in a lot of new games.
But there are also a lot systems in the new games that makes the games more easy too.
Maybe you are to young to know all the old games and see how easy are all the new games.

In the old singleplayer games, less then 20% of the players were able to complete them.
Now you have easy games everyone can complete, like a participation reward and they invented archivments to give players a goal, because finishing the game is no goal anymore, because its too easy.

MWO was invented to be a thinking mans shooter,
reducing all the simple mechanics is a first step to this goal.

Since the dawn of online gaming, which I remember well. Your whole take on old vs new games has nothing to do with the "hit conformation" Its not there to make games harder or easier, just more comfortable and well designed. People back then were smart enough to know you need it. And whoever made the early beta copies MWO was also smart enough to know you need it it. In fact MWO has a visual confirmation instead of an audio one, because you can be deaf and play the game, but not blind and play.

Here is an example of an "old" game from 1999.

The "blup" sound is the hit confirmation.