100 replies to this topic

[Spleenslitta]

I've used the ECM on my KFX constantly and i think the new ECM perfect. If they made it so that the disrupt ability only affected the mech equipped with ECM i would only shrug and be completly fine with it.
But more importantly the upcoming info warfare quirks makes light mechs without ECM much more capable of going alone for flanking attacks......trust me about that part.
Because i've been flanking alone for a looong time so i know what i'm talking about. I think i seriously started flanking alone before they went beyond the original 8 mechs.

[Screech]

Livewyr, on 15 October 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

ECM is useful for more than just anti missile. (And you can have both on most ECM mechs)

Not for the tonnage, especially on a light. Maybe leave it on the assaults that have the spare tonnage. I mean people are free to do as they wish but anyone looking to spend the tonnage wisely will ditch ECM on their lights and mediums.

[Livewyr]

Screech, on 15 October 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

Not for the tonnage, especially on a light. Maybe leave it on the assaults that have the spare tonnage. I mean people are free to do as they wish but anyone looking to spend the tonnage wisely will ditch ECM on their lights and mediums.

Funny how that's a choice now isn't it?

You think it's garbage.
I think it's very good.

It's no longer "Why don't you have ECM on your ECM mech? Are you Dumb?"

Balance accomplished. (At least much closer)

[Spleenslitta]

Screech, on 15 October 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

Not for the tonnage, especially on a light. Maybe leave it on the assaults that have the spare tonnage. I mean people are free to do as they wish but anyone looking to spend the tonnage wisely will ditch ECM on their lights and mediums.

If you're thinking the new ECM does not provide usefull protection for it's weight concider this.
Imagine a light with ECM pokes out of cover and shoots you but before you can get a lockon to get full effect out of your lasers or lock on with Streak/LRM's he dissapears into cover again.

He relocates while staying out of your sightline and comes out of a different piece of cover to do the entire thing all over again.
That's effective use of the new ECM mechanics. Do not stay in sight any longer than necessary.

If you stay in line of sight to your enemies the whole time while trading back and forth gauss slugs or whatever.....the new ECM will have minimal benefit for you.
The new ECM requires use of our brains. It's like PGI said : MWO is a thinking players game.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 15 October 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[Livewyr]

Spleenslitta, on 15 October 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

If you're thinking the new ECM does not provide usefull protection for it's weight concider this.
Imagine a light with ECM pokes out of cover and shoots you but before you can get a lockon to get full effect out of your lasers or lock on with Streak/LRM's he dissapears into cover again.

He relocates while staying out of your sightline and comes out of a different piece of cover to do the entire thing all over again.
That's effective use of the new ECM mechanics. Do not stay in sight any longer than necessary.

If you stay in line of sight to your enemies the whole time while trading back and forth gauss slugs or whatever.....the new ECM will have minimal benefit for you.
The new ECM requires use of our brains. It's like PGI said : MWO is a thinking players game.

I used this to similar effect earlier, to avoid getting annihilated in a SHC by a laser puke SCR.. at 300ish+ meters.

Leveling the playing field with strategy and tech.

[Screech]

Livewyr, on 15 October 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

Funny how that's a choice now isn't it?

You think it's garbage.
I think it's very good.

It's no longer "Why don't you have ECM on your ECM mech? Are you Dumb?"

Balance accomplished. (At least much closer)

Now it is "You are using ECM on your mech? Are you dumb?" Mission accomplished for sure, lol.

[Screech]

Spleenslitta, on 15 October 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

If you stay in line of sight to your enemies the whole time while trading back and forth gauss slugs or whatever.....the new ECM will have minimal benefit for you.
The new ECM requires use of our brains. It's like PGI said : MWO is a thinking players game.

Yes because I am always trading gauss shots with ECM light. And yes ECM will require brains, in the form of realizing it is dumb to equip.

[Livewyr]

Screech, on 15 October 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

Now it is "You are using ECM on your mech? Are you dumb?" Mission accomplished for sure, lol.

You are dismissed.

[Screech]

Livewyr, on 15 October 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

You are dismissed.

LOL. Get over yourself.

[Famous]

I can only speak for PUGland, but most of the ECMs I see on a daily basis seem to forget the "J" key exists. I would prefer to keep the 180m range or compromise at 120m, but yeah it needs to be tweaked. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten to the brawl and no enemy 'Mechs are targetted because there is one ECM on the other side and three on my side with everyone set to Disrupt. Tap "J" and suddenly all the enemy are lit up because *gasp* it has multiple functions.

[Spleenslitta]

Livewyr, on 15 October 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

I used this to similar effect earlier, to avoid getting annihilated in a SHC by a laser puke SCR.. at 300ish+ meters.

Leveling the playing field with strategy and tech.

I read your story in that thread you made. Too bad you had to back off because of the damage.

Screech, on 15 October 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

Now it is "You are using ECM on your mech? Are you dumb?" Mission accomplished for sure, lol.

It really makes me concider mechs such as the Panther seriously again. I always thought it would draw too much attention since it didn't have ECM and was slower than some light mechs.
If i put a PPC on it wouldn't have enough weapon slots to equip backup weapons for a close range fight.
But with the new sensor range and info war quirks that will arrive it's suddenly a contender for me again since it will be noticed less.

Screech, on 15 October 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

LOL. Get over yourself.

This does not convince anyone about anything Screech. Please be more mature and put forward something that actually proves something.

[Mystere]

Spleenslitta, on 15 October 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

If you're thinking the new ECM does not provide usefull protection for it's weight concider this.
Imagine a light with ECM pokes out of cover and shoots you but before you can get a lockon to get full effect out of your lasers or lock on with Streak/LRM's he dissapears into cover again.

He relocates while staying out of your sightline and comes out of a different piece of cover to do the entire thing all over again.
That's effective use of the new ECM mechanics. Do not stay in sight any longer than necessary.

If you stay in line of sight to your enemies the whole time while trading back and forth gauss slugs or whatever.....the new ECM will have minimal benefit for you.
The new ECM requires use of our brains. It's like PGI said : MWO is a thinking players game.

There is just one problem. The target acquisition time is exactly zero seconds as defined by the PTS testing conditions. As such, it is pointless to test this "pokes out of cover and shoots" ECM thingy and prematurely declare it "useful" until we get a non-zero target acquisition time -- and get assurances that there will be one in the live environment.

Edited by Mystere, 15 October 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[Livewyr]

Mystere, on 15 October 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

There is just one problem. The target acquisition time is exactly zero seconds as defined by the PTS testing conditions. As such, it is pointless to test this "pokes out of cover and shoots" ECM thingy and prematurely declare it "useful" until we get a non-zero target acquisition time -- and get assurances that there will be one in the live environment.

Correction: I used ECM to great effect in a SHC vs SCR engagement.

http://mwomercs.com/...erience-in-pts/

(And that is before the rest of the sensor stuff comes in.)

Edited by Livewyr, 15 October 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Mystere]

Spleenslitta, on 15 October 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

The new ECM requires use of our brains. It's like PGI said : MWO is a thinking players game.

Well since you put it that way so nicely ...

The current ECM requires good use of the brains of the players on the disadvantaged side. And the bigger the disadvantage, the more you need to better use your brains. It's like PGI said : MWO is a thinking players game.

Don't you want to use your team's collective brainpower to overcome a big disadvantage? Or do you just want to think much less than you would now when you find yourself at an ECM disadvantage? Do you even think when facing an ECM disadvantage? Or do you just give up and/or run to the forums?

Do you see how that works? <smh>

Edited by Mystere, 15 October 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[Mystere]

Livewyr, on 15 October 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Correction: I used ECM to great effect in a SHC vs SCR engagement.

http://mwomercs.com/...erience-in-pts/

(And that is before the rest of the sensor stuff comes in.)

Well then, see my response on that thread.

[patataman]

I'm liking how the new ECM system works, no longer providing sensor "invisibility". Since in this implementation ECM just increases lock on times and hides the paperdoll, i'd say keeping the old range would be ok.

[Thunder Child]

So, having read through what's happened on the PTS, I think PGI has the right idea..... BUT!
Instead of the Lock On Delay being for Missile Locks/Targeting Info, it should be a Target Lock (Red Dorito) Delay. For everyone affected by the ECM Field.
So no, ECM is no longer the Super Stealth Sniper Field, or Anti-Missile Shield of Invulnerability, but it still provides a tactical advantage to the team using it, because they won't show up on sensors immediately after they step out of cover. If they stand around in the open expecting to be completely ignored due to their 1 ton Magic Jesus Box, that's their own dumb fault.

TL:DR. ECM should not delay Missile Locks. It should Delay ANY Targeting Lock on shrouded units by 3 secs.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 15 October 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

That 3-second delay only applies to acquiring targeting information. Target acquisition as they apply to lasers, on the other hand, is instant.

It is next to useless in the current context of the PTS test simply because of the zero target acquisition delay. There is no point in testing ECM beyond the new 90-meter bubble.

See above.

Mystere, on 15 October 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

In the PTS, the 3-second delay applies to the targeting information, not to targeting itself. The targeting delay is set to 0 on the PTS.

Supposedly, there will be targeting delay in production. But we do not know yet what that value will be per mech. Who knows? It must just be 0 in the end -- and that is what worries me.

Frankly, they should have also added some value for targeting delay for this test.

I wasn't aware that ECM was not affecting target delay (I thought that it was and that mechs' target delay was set to 0) because the PTS notes made it seem like it was (I'm not on the PTS yet) so okay, I guess I see your point because ECM is not actually working as advertised.

I don't agree that it's pointless to test it without any target delay though, it is a test server and I assume that PGI wants some test data without targeting delay in the mix; would be nice if they clarified that a bit more though (like Paul's post on the laser changes) if that's their intention.

Quote

You obviously misread me. I am warning players of the incoming SSRM and LRM rain so they can prepare themselves. I also predict vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears once the rain starts pouring.

Me complain about missiles? <maniacal >

I wasn't trying to assume too hard, but LURMAGEDDON is and has been a pretty common defense against toning down ECM, so considering your stance on ECM I wasn't too sure if that's what your point was.

I for one welcome LRMs being worth a damn and SSRMs being at least less garbage.

Quote

I do not think that is ever going to happen because of the 12 Dire Wolf Bogeyman Scenario (or is that the 12 Meta Timber Wolf Bogeyman thingy -- I can't tell anymore because of all of these bogeymen people constantly cry about. ).

I can see those sorts of matches being a problem in Skirmish I guess, but at least it would never be as stacked as something like this:

Quote

I never said otherwise.

To be fair, I did quote another person there, but either way it's kind of necessary to tone down ECM to make that happen.

I also don't agree with your position about not caring what kind of advantage a team has just for bringing more ECM. It doesn't need to be as overwhelmingly powerful as it is now (on the live servers) to make the mech carrying it a valuable target still, and by making ECM not hard counter 2 entire weapon systems it makes the game more balanced and therefore more fun & varied.

As I've said before, the problem is that ECM is simply too powerful, not that it exists or that it actually does something useful, and once it's successfully toned down it can still be a valuable piece of equipment without breaking multiple aspects of the game.

Mystere, on 15 October 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

Well since you put it that way so nicely ...

The current ECM requires good use of the brains of the players on the disadvantaged side. And the bigger the disadvantage, the more you need to better use your brains. It's like PGI said : MWO is a thinking players game.

Don't you want to use your team's collective brainpower to overcome a big disadvantage? Or do you just want to think much less than you would now when you find yourself at an ECM disadvantage? Do you even think when facing an ECM disadvantage? Or do you just give up and/or run to the forums?

Do you see how that works? <smh>

I would argue that the current ECM implementation allows brainless deathballing with no regard for LRMs as any sort of threat, meanwhile the victims apparently just need to git gud or something.

Thunder Child, on 15 October 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

TL:DR. ECM should not delay Missile Locks. It should Delay ANY Targeting Lock on shrouded units by 3 secs.

It's my understanding that is what it's supposed to do, but currently is not.

Edited by Pjwned, 15 October 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[Tesunie]

Rinkata Kimiku, on 15 October 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

YES ! ! !
Finally ECM goes in the RIGHT WAY!

PGI, please, do not stop on reducing ECM bubble, and COMPLETELY REMOVE IT, make it MORE lore friendly!

LIKE THIS TEST, LIKE IT, LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE!!!

ECM in lore did not disrupt locking on mechanics. It disrupted communications (which with out of game chat systems, would be impossible to implement and actually was at first, which was found to be too much of a disadvantage for people not on private comms) and advanced sensors and missile upgrades.

ECM did project a bubble around the mech equipped with it, and BAP would inform the user when it was being jammed by ECM (and actually in some lore could detect the sphere of influence produced by the ECM, making it easier to track in some cases). ECM also prevented advanced targeting mechanics, such as Artemis and NARC from working, but not normal LRMs.

Mechs without BAP would not know if they were being affected by ECM.


Stealth Armor (developed my Liao) combined with ECM provided a personal protection from standard locking mechanics, similar to the current ECM in the game. However, Stealth armor was expensive to make, repair, and maintain. It also, when active (I believe), produced additional heat within the mech.


So... Your statement seems to contradict itself. ECM had a bubble of influence, and that should not be removed as then that would be less "lore like". However, the current concept (from what I've heard, not been able to play the test server yet) is closer to lore than the previous implementation (that which is still in the live game).

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

I'm in favor of ECM affecting only the equipping 'Mech. But then, my idea about IW and sensor systems is much different than what we're seeing.