396 replies to this topic

[Buck Rogers]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Oh wellk I dunno, I'm going of MW4 stats... since that's the only one I played. I'm not trying to put anyone down, I'm more curious than anything, especially since I know nothing about figures and how mechs really work other than in MW4. I'm looking at this from the point of view of fighting a slow, under weapon-ed robot. I just want to know what it has over an Atlas, which has more guns, so it's damage is higher. It has more armor, so more damage absorption, and it even moves faster, maybe the Urban mech has a lot to offer, but to me it seems like more classes can offer all that and more. Play a freakin panther, you can move so much faster and you have a freakin PPC, and still has rockets and a small pulse laser, which is the same tonnage as a medium laser if you'd rather have that. You have a really big gun but this one won't run out of ammo, and you're still use to the team. Hell use a beacon instead of missiles and now you're more use to your catapult than a security guard.

3048 era Panther has 64 kph speed (twice that of urbanmechs) 120 meter jump capacity (twice that of urbanmech), 6.5 tons of armor (.5 tons more than urbanmech), and mounts a PPC and an SRM-4 with 25 salvos. It's 5 tons heavier, way more expensive (in in-universe C-Bills), and in the vast majority of situations, much more useful. There's a reason why some very important people drive Panthers in the Battletech novels, and almost no one drives Urbanmechs. On that note, I would be extremely surprised if the Panther doesn't make it in within the first year of the game being out. It's just too iconic and useful.

In-universe, a cheapo urban defense unit like an Urbanmech is hugely different than a prestigious front line mech like the Panther.

No one is saying the Urbanmech is better than a Panther. That would be silly.

I also don't see a Panther fan club out there .

[Roguewolf]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

I can't tell if people honestly want him in or just think they're cool supporting that waste of space like some kind of fan boy.

And this is exactly why we have "My Little Pony" fanboi hug farms everywhere. The Urby is the Pony of BattleTech

[Vechs]

Heh. I think maybe that's the big misunderstanding with the people who don't like the Urbanmech.

I like the Urbanmech because it's "bad". (Read: cheap)

If you play a strategy game, you're going to lose if you try to do nothing but build your most expensive units. That's why vehicles like the Urbanmech have their place.

So, basically, I think the Urbanmech is good because it's cheap, and it's cheap because it's bad. So I think it's good because it's bad.

Make sense?

[Buck Rogers]

Roguewolf, on 08 July 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

And this is exactly why we have "My Little Pony" fanboi hug farms everywhere. The Urby is the Pony of BattleTech

LOL. Hug farms.

But if that were true, it would be entrenched in the pinned Forum Etiquette thread that you are not allowed to make fun of Urbanmechs under penalty of post deletion .

On a side note, I watched the first two episodes of that show out of bizarre fascination what with all the Eridani Light Pony folks (which is the most hilarious name for a Merc company ever I might add), and... A show that tells people that friends come in all shades of personality and talents and one shouldn't be dismissive of new ideas? I don't think I'll become a Bronie, but I know some grown adults that should watch that show and take away the lessons.

[Adm Awesome]

Vechs, on 08 July 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

We're thinking of cheap in two different ways.

Battletech also uses a "Battle Value" number (which roughly follows the C-Bill money cost) to gauge how expensive something is.

The Urbanmech will be "cheap" for your team, assuming they account for BV in matchmaking (and I think they will).

So let's say we have a 5,000 BV match. Having an Urbanmech will use up 454 BV, while a Jenner would take 669 BV from your teams budget. That means if I use an Urbanmech, you could spend more BV for yourself and roll out in an Assault mech instead of a Heavy.

Having cheap BV mechs is important for teams that want to have flexibility in their composition.

you lost me with complex MWO mechanics that I do not understand, so can't make an argument to that, so I guess you win.

Vechs, on 08 July 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

Heh. I think maybe that's the big misunderstanding with the people who don't like the Urbanmech.

I like the Urbanmech because it's "bad". (Read: cheap)

If you play a strategy game, you're going to lose if you try to do nothing but build your most expensive units. That's why vehicles like the Urbanmech have their place.

So, basically, I think the Urbanmech is good because it's cheap, and it's cheap because it's bad. So I think it's good because it's bad.

Make sense?

So i was originally right... It's a fanboy thing. You just had to say that and countless words and hours would've been saved

Roguewolf, on 08 July 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

And this is exactly why we have "My Little Pony" fanboi hug farms everywhere. The Urby is the Pony of BattleTech

HOLY CRAP. You're right. It's the exact same thing. Kinda like how bronies like MLP and when you actually bring it up, they try to defend with their lives, and you can't argue with them anyway because no matter how logically you argue using specific examples... they will not budge an inch... I feel the similarities strongly in this thread.

Edited by Adm Awesome, 08 July 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[Vechs]

Well, to be fair, I've seen people crusading against the Urbanmech.

It's an inexpensive mech that has above average firepower and armor. It has it's place in the game.

I don't get why people fantasize about going 1v1 against an Atlas with it. I also don't get why they never want to see the Urbanmech in the game at all.

Although I must admit I find the tubby little design to be endearing...

[Adm Awesome]

Well we wouldn't want to see it at all because some of us think it would be a horrible contribution to the team.

[Vechs]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

So i was originally right... It's a fanboy thing. You just had to say that and countless words and hours would've been saved

No, I'm not an Urbanmech fanboy. It's just another mech, like all the others. (I'm an Orion and Hollander fanboy.)

Are the benefits of having a cheap mech really that hard to understand? Both cheap in C-Bills and cheap in matchmaking. Variety is great in a mech game!

[Adm Awesome]

Just bought an Urban Mech and gonna go do a mission in MW4, LETS DO THIS

[Vechs]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Well we wouldn't want to see it at all because some of us think it would be a horrible contribution to the team.

So will any mis-configured mech.

So will bad players.

Debating an Urbanmechs performance is really academic. The fact is, it has it's role to fill, just like any other mech. Maybe this role is less obvious or harder to understand, but that doesn't mean it's not there. It's not a miracle mech, but it certainly has it's place at the table.

[Vechs]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

Just bought an Urban Mech and gonna go do a mission in MW4, LETS DO THIS

I've played MW4: Mercs a lot, and I can tell you that speed is not very valuable with the exception of a few escort missions.

I found myself, even in Assault mechs, going at half speed just so that my AI lancemates would keep up. If you go full speed, you will leave them behind.

So, in other words, the way the missions are set up in the game, it rewards slow mechs that have loaded up on weapons and armor. Try a Clan Gauss on your Urbanmech, with a laser for killing objective buildings. Go slow and snipe enemies as you come up on them.

You should win pretty easy. Until you get later in the game, where you fight multiple assault mechs and heavies, at which point any light mech is going to be a death sentence.

[Adm Awesome]

First of all this thread is about MWO, where speed will matter, I'm just talking about MW4 now because I'm bored of the circles.

Anyway at least the MW4 urban mech goes 57 km/hr, holds enough weapons that I had a AC/10 and 3 medium laser and has I got relatively decent armor. My ammo lasted pretty quickly... but I think that's only because the 4 Atlas scout lance, and my lance with an Awesome, Stalker and Diashi killed most of the stuff for me. I also lost all weapons except for 1 medium laser by the end. When we got to the Clan drop **** that shoots like 3 Gause Rifle shots at you at once, I literally just went behind a hill, powered down and watched my team mate take the rest. at least he's bigger than he's usually portrayed in that game as well. If they DO add him in the game, I really hope that they fix his looking down problem LOL I couldn't stand on a small hill and snipe the mines that were on the ground because he can't look as far down as most mechs, I actually had to stand on the down slope of the hill so I was already looking downwards to shoot them.

Edited by Adm Awesome, 08 July 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[Skygge06]

My argument for the Urbanmech is that it is absolutely iconic. It definitely has it's role on a battlefield. The fact that people dismiss it as useless already helps it's cause. Chances are people are going to ignore it and go after the guys already shooting them, until next thing they know the "little trash can that could" is pounding them with auto-cannons.

One on one, yes, an Atlas can back away from it as fast as it runs. But this isn't a 1v1 game. And more importantly, this game seems to take COST into account.

The Urbanmech's battlefield role is enhanced even more now that this is the first Mechwarrior game using line of sight for targeting. Yes, it is a situational mech. But so is a Hunchback. So is Catapult. So is a Raven.

[Ashla Mason]

While I'm not entirely opposed to people piloting an urbanmech orit being present in the game, I can't help but think there are far more worthwhile light mechs that can be included in the game, and that ~frankly~ can fulfil the same roll better then this little deathtrap.

Also: While people love to yammer on about the great "value" of the urbanmech, I've found they tend to get rather indignant when I point out taht various vehicles are both cheaper and more versatile. Hell, a warrior attack helicopter neuters it's urban combat advantage and can maintain double it's maximum range while plinking away with an AC 2.

[Vechs]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

First of all this thread is about MWO, where speed will matter, I'm just talking about MW4 now because I'm bored of the circles.

Anyway at least the MW4 urban mech goes 57 km/hr, holds enough weapons that I had a AC/10 and 3 medium laser and has I got relatively decent armor. My ammo lasted pretty quickly... but I think that's only because the 4 Atlas scout lance, and my lance with an Awesome, Stalker and Diashi killed most of the stuff for me. I also lost all weapons except for 1 medium laser by the end. When we got to the Clan drop **** that shoots like 3 Gause Rifle shots at you at once, I literally just went behind a hill, powered down and watched my team mate take the rest. at least he's bigger than he's usually portrayed in that game as well. If they DO add him in the game, I really hope that they fix his looking down problem LOL I couldn't stand on a small hill and snipe the mines that were on the ground because he can't look as far down as most mechs, I actually had to stand on the down slope of the hill so I was already looking downwards to shoot them.

Heh, I totally cheese that mission with an Arrow IV launcher. I just manually fire it at the tip of the Falcon dropship from behind the hill. It can't shoot back, and my lance and I take no damage.

[ZnSeventeen]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Considering all of you are founders with at least one mech here, there shouldn't be a reason for you to need to buy an urban for cash reasons, you have a special edition mech, and you have 80 bucks worth of ingame money, you don't need to pinch pennies.

You are right, we don't need to save, but some people do. And in the interest of not excluding them, they should have the option.

Also, there is nothing wrong with saving, even if you are loaded.

Any mech will not be ideal for all situations. Admittedly the Urbanmech has more situations it fails in than most mechs. But you have to open your eyes! An Atlas loses to a King Crab in a city. It loses to an Awesome in an open field. It loses to a Dire Wolf in almost every situation imaginable. But that doesn't make it a bad mech.

Lastly, urbanmechs are fun. If you do not like people to have fun, why are you playing a game?

[Vechs]

Ashla Mason, on 08 July 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

While I'm not entirely opposed to people piloting an urbanmech orit being present in the game, I can't help but think there are far more worthwhile light mechs that can be included in the game, and that ~frankly~ can fulfil the same roll better then this little deathtrap.

Also: While people love to yammer on about the great "value" of the urbanmech, I've found they tend to get rather indignant when I point out taht various vehicles are both cheaper and more versatile. Hell, a warrior attack helicopter neuters it's urban combat advantage and can maintain double it's maximum range while plinking away with an AC 2.

I love Battletech vehicles, and while I've never played the tabletop, I know that how they are portrayed in MW4 is very inaccurate. (They die way too quickly, and they barely fire their weapons.)

I was disappointed that there were only mechs in MWO. I was hoping for vehicle NPCs to guard the bases or something.

[Mattrixx]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

First of all this thread is about MWO, where speed will matter, I'm just talking about MW4 now because I'm bored of the circles.

Anyway at least the MW4 urban mech goes 57 km/hr, holds enough weapons that I had a AC/10 and 3 medium laser and has I got relatively decent armor. My ammo lasted pretty quickly... but I think that's only because the 4 Atlas scout lance, and my lance with an Awesome, Stalker and Diashi killed most of the stuff for me. I also lost all weapons except for 1 medium laser by the end. When we got to the Clan drop **** that shoots like 3 Gause Rifle shots at you at once, I literally just went behind a hill, powered down and watched my team mate take the rest. at least he's bigger than he's usually portrayed in that game as well. If they DO add him in the game, I really hope that they fix his looking down problem LOL I couldn't stand on a small hill and snipe the mines that were on the ground because he can't look as far down as most mechs, I actually had to stand on the down slope of the hill so I was already looking downwards to shoot them.

We'll make a fanboi out of you yet. Adm. Awesome.

[Buck Rogers]

The Urbanmech is a Well Armored Self Propelled Jump Capable AC-10.

Now... Is a large bore autocannon a good weapon? Well, that's debatable, but the skinny is that a huge number of 'mechs use large bore autocannons as their primary weapon. A friggin 80 ton Victor only has 2 medium lasers and an SRM-4 when it runs out of its 15 rounds of AC-20 ammo.

AC-10 is good. Dang decent range, dang decent damage.

Urbanmech is a cheap and effective way to get it into combat, and its jump jets mean that if there is cover, whether that be boulders, houses, parking structures, what have you, then the snail speed of the mech isn't such a big deal. You won't be able to run away from the fight. But with skill and a bit of luck you will be able to get away from their guns.

It boils down to that. Is the AC-10, or AC-20 (for the less armored Capellan variant) a good weapon? Cause that AC-10 with its 1 ton of ammo is 43% of what an Urbanmech is. The Capellan AC-20 version with 4 tons of armor (same as Jenner & Cicada fyi) is 50% AC-20.

It's a self deployable armored anti-mech gun. Treat it as such, and not a universal wonder weapon, and it will do good.

"It won't keep up with the charge!" - Urbanmech was never designed to charge.

"It's the worst scout ever!" - Urbanmech was never designed to scout.

"It has limited ammo!" - Sure does. Same with a lot of mechs.

"Its so slow it will never be able to disengage from a fight!" - An urbanmech pilot should always keep near cover that he can jump-jet behind. To not do so is an indictment of the pilot not the mech.

"Its not actually that well armed!" - AC-10 punches its damage into one location. This means that an AC-10 round in general will do better than two Medium Lasers (same damage potential) as the AC-10 can bite through weakened armor and crush some internals, while the medium lasers have a big chance of hitting two different hit locations and not punching through the armor.

[Adm Awesome]

Yeah he's cool, clumsy and in a way cute, I get it. Give me a freakin sig with an Urban Mech and I'll slap it on


I still don't want it on my team.