205 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Maybe Justin Liao for medium pilot. He held off Gray Norton who was in a Rifleman in his Phoenix Hawk. He's also known for his yen lo Wang.

[Hawktel]

I think the best mechwarrior known that wasn't hip deep in plot armor, had to be Grey Norton.

Taking a Stock Rifleman 3N, he shoots it out with Assaults 1v1 to win the Solaris 7 over all champion, 7 times. No fluke...

Several Combine mechwarriors in the Gunslinger days appear to have fought many duals, and survived. No doubt, some of them were amazing.

And Washington is considered to be one of History's best commanders.. winning against the British empire at the Height of its power was no small task. Few could compete against him.

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 27 October 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

[b]
I'd say my top ten are:
Black Widow
Aidan Pryde
Natalie Breen
Lincoln Osis
Sun-Tzu Laio
Vlad Ward
Phelan Kell
Nicholas Kerensky
Joanna
Grayson Carlyle

Hmm Phelan Kell/Ward beat Vlad straight up for the Ward blood name. I'd say Phelan is definitely better.

I mean, we have been talking about having even fights to determine the best.

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 07 November 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Yeah but then again we have to consider who kept Clan Wolf alive and fighting throughout the Wars of Reaving and everything. That was Ward. Phelan Kell was to busy taking his Exile wimps away to do barely anything for ages.

Kell may have won against Ward one on one, but Vlad was a way better strategist IMO, and could easily maneuver a wipe out of Phelan Kell's people. In my opinion. Plus this was not Vlad's prime yet. If we are to go at either person's prime like we suggested earlier in the thread, well I think it would be a very very close match.

A fair point. However it is notable that Vlad was the more experienced pilot when they dualed.

[TheArisen]

I was talking about this with some unit mates and they said that as far as TT stats go, Kai Allard is hands down the best. You can complain about plot armor but I think RL ppl like Audie Murphy show that real history can be just as crazy as a movie.

Audie Murphy earned the Medal of Honor when he held off an entire company of German soldiers from the top of a burning tank, by himself, for over an hour. No plot armor IRL. Just because something is improbable does not make it impossible.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Morgan Kell has a lot going for him, but for sheer skill there is pretty much a top three. Several others might be contenders, but without actually seeing any of them in match-ups with the top three, it's hard to make the judgment call.

In no particular order, Kai Allard-Liao, Phelan Kell, and Natasha Kerensky are probably peak-skill mechwarriors.

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 18 November 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Natasha had plenty of her own plot armor. The point remains, Kai has better stats in TT than any other pilot, including Natasha. That means as far as TT counts in this discussion Kai is the best. If Vlad is in the Top ten then that means he's not far behind and would not be totally out matched. The #1 team in a sports league can still be the best and lose. Also, Vlad was in a Twolf versus Kai's Stormcrow. I.E. Vlad had an extra 20 tons & a range advantage & still lost.

As for Phellan, he was pretty fresh from getting the boot from the academy when he was captured. He was basically a rookie still. People generally get better as they gain experience. I don't see how it's hard to believe Phellan gained experience & got better. He was Natasha's right hand for awhile. I could see him learning a thing or two from her. I will admit that Vlad was the villain so he was meant to be surpassed by the protagonist.

[Carl Vickers]

So many to choose from, different warriors with different skills. Someone who is essentially unhittable is probably the best.

In comment to some of the posts about Vlad Phelan fights. Vlad was in a Timber first fight and Phelan was in a Wolfhound, big tonnage difference there and Phelan managed to get a hit on that Timber, despite tech difference and lack of knowledge, thats skill. Vlad should have smegged him before he got into range.

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 19 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

Then again being beaten in a bigger mech doesn't mean you are a worse pilot. I am mediocre at best and can turn dire wolves to **** with my Jenner. Weight class is not an accurate determination of skill.

And Arisen. Vlad was pretty new himself. You forget at that time he had only just become a warrior (if I recall correctly). Plus by that logic shouldn't Vladimir have gotten better over time too? Sounds like plot shielding for Phelan to me.

The thing is, its not like you in a customized Jenner (Double HS, endo, change engine, etc) vrs a dire/timber wolf. Phellan was in a stock Wolfhound and made Vlad (in a Twolf, the best heavy at the time) work to get him. Vlad should of smashed him but didn't. This could actually be a point showing Phellan to actually be the better pilot. Tonnage obviously isn't a guarantee but the advantages it brings shouldn't be ignored. If Vlad had lost that first fight, he'd practically lost the right to be mentioned in this discussion.

Phellan turning out to be the better pilot isn't plot armor. It just seems to me Vlad did get better but Phellan reached an even higher level. Plot armor would be Phellan in a stock Wolfhound beating Vlad in a Twolf with all it's clan tech. That'd be plain unbelievable, considering skill levels.

Edited by TheArisen, 20 November 2015 - 03:19 AM.

[Fire for Effect]

Why go for opinions?

Just look at the sourcebooks...

And the winner of my short search in my archive is......
Natasha Kerensky or Kai Allard Liao?

Nope, both have a skill of a nice double zero (0/0)
(More tales of the Black Widow/Tukayyid; The Dragon Roars)


and the winner is
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Morgan Kell

he was the only one I could find who had a -1/0 Skill ("3027 and after" period)
(The Kell Hounds)

edit: typo

Edited by Fire for Effect, 20 November 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[TheArisen]

You can disagree with a mechwarrior's politics but that's not the point. We're trying to determine who has the most prowess in battle. Although I agree, even though the Crusader Wolfs along with the Falcons were a big problem, splitting up your clan just to get rid of them wasn't the way. But that was Ulric's plan. Personally, I'd have liked for Phellan & Vlad to put aside their differences & whip those Falcons. But idk if that'd be possible considering Vlad's attitude.

Going back a bit, I think it's plausible for the clans to want to capture a unit commander. He showed considerable skill putting up as much fight as he did versus Vlad's Twolf. The Clans would respect that. Then, once he was among them he had the chance to learn new skills, etc.

Phellan has a valuable combination of skills because he learned how to pilot with the IS & Clans. He became saKhan with Natasha as Khan, that's an achievement. He also beat Vlad who beat up those Falcons. I'd say beating Vlad counts as beating a Khan because the guy was better than pretty much every Khan. IMO, that could be counted as his greatest achievement along with the conquest of an entire planet by himself. Basically, I think Phellan could've accomplished just about everything Vlad did. The only thing that kept Phellan from doing more was his Warden politics.

[SnagaDance]

Marack Drock, on 20 November 2015 - 05:43 AM, said:

Frankly taking on a Khan and saKhan of probably the second most deadly Clan in existence (arguably Smoke Jaguar at this time could make a claim), I think should give testament to how good Vlad was later on.

While killing Vadervahn Chistu was a good feat, I'd hardly consider him killing a 66 year old man who had been falsifying his own combat worthiness reports for quite some time (Elias Crichell), in hand to hand combat, as any accomplishment proving his own worth as a warrior at all.

(Outside of the political coup he managed by getting Crichell into the position in the first place.)

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 20 November 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Except he was only given the role of saKhan because of Ulric's loss of command. And also Vlad got a lot of experience before beating those Falcons. Actually Phelan never even fought the Falcons in Refusal (if I remember correctly) because he went and ran with his tail between his legs along with the rest of his warden buddies. He may have made one brief attack or a few little ones, but nothing that could ever threaten the Wardens. Not to mention Vlad is also responsible for saving the entirety of the heavily damaged reborn Clan Wolf during the Wars of Reaving. That's also a huge achievement. Political or not, by the end of Vlad's life he had WAY more accomplishments than Phelan. Phelan pretty much did nothing as a mechwarrior the minute Ulric died.

Yes, Vlad accomplished a lot but from what we have to go on, Phellan was the better pilot. It seems to me that anything Vlad did Phellan could've done as well, perhaps, in a better way.

Snag made a good point. The Falcon Khans Vlad beat was a 66 year old man & a faker.

In any case, we're debating #7 & #8 for a top ten.

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 20 November 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

true we are. I am still a Vlad person but meh to each his own.

Now Natasha vs Kai... that is something that can be debated.

Yup, my list Phellan is #7 & on your's it's Vlad. Of course we could also say they're tied for 7th.

Natasha versus Kai Allard... That'd be the dual of the century... It'd probably depend on what they ate for breakfast or something. According to TT stats they're tied.

[SnagaDance]

If they'd talk before the battle I'd say Natasha would surely win. She could emasculate any man in a sentence or two and Kai had confidence issues enough.

[TheArisen]

What if Kai hated her as much as he did the Cappellans? In that case I doubt he'd care about anything Natasha might say. "Berserker" Kai would be immune to intimidation or attacks on his confidence.

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 21 November 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Even then. Natasha has a way with words and is really good at manipulating people mentally. Plus angry people have a tendency not to be as focused, and if she got Kai really worked up, recklessness quickly ensues to those who are angry and hasty.

To be fair, Natasha became the "Black Widow" because she was so broken up over her lover. (Forgot which Wolf brother).

I'm not saying she couldn't, I'm just saying it wouldn't be a guarantee. I'm really just playing devil's advocate.

We need to find some ways to distinguish these two. What're their strengths & weaknesses. Natasha for example is a good manipulator as mentioned. Basically, let's try and break these two down. I'd contribute more but I'm at work on break.

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 21 November 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

Natasha Strengths-
Mental manipulator
Master pilot
Very good Strategist
Very much focused on violence (also a weakness)
Clan and Inner Sphere upbringing
Weaknesses:
Dead lover (could be exploited)
A little elderly
Very independent (can be bad)

Kai Allard-Liao Strengths:
Master Pilot
Solaris champion
Experience in several combat situations both Clan and Inner Sphere
Medium Pilot
Very intelligent and intuitive in combat
Weaknesses-
Low self confidence (could be exploited by Natasha)
Lots anger towards the Capellans (could also be exploited to make him reckless)
Is friends with Victor Davion (I count that as a weakness and fault.... because Victor is a &%^#&^#&@@*$^$^%*#(@&@)
Assassinated father (could be used as leverage especially when bring up CC stuff)
probably more but I can't think of it cause it is late at night and I really don't feel like going through my source material.

Nice breakdown. Unless Victor is in the vicinity, idk how he's relevant, haha.

[TheArisen]

Honest opinion, I think a Kai versus Widow fight would be extremly close. It could go either way. If they fought 10 times I wouldn't be surprised if it was 5 wins each or 6 & 4.

A person(s) we haven't totally taken into account is the Bounty Hunter. One of these guys that held this title literally stole Natasha's Marauder and kept it for himself.

[SilentScreamer]

TheArisen, on 23 November 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

A person(s) we haven't totally taken into account is the Bounty Hunter. One of these guys that held this title literally stole Natasha's Marauder and kept it for himself.

Not sure this one qualifies. If I have my facts right the Bounty Hunter was suppose to be on Natasha's side and lured her into an ambush instead. Definately a "dirty trick".

Even if "anything goes" this did not resolve through mech on mech combat. The thread title says best Mechwarrior, so I would not give credit to the Bounty Hunter on this one. Otherwise we would have to askif Batman or Chuck Norris should be considered!

Edited by SilentScreamer, 23 November 2015 - 10:28 PM.