57 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

Most of them cannot boat energy which makes them weaksauce. Sure they can save tonnage by engine switching/optimising, but it means nothing if they can't equip weaponry comparable to the Omnimechs.

That said, the HBK will have a niche as a dual-gauss platform (or a hill-humping laser boat, yes Alex Gorsky) while the Jenner will be able to boat super-light SRMs, so those two particular builds will probably find their place in the meta. However the specifics of these builds could make or break them (how much ammo they can reasonably carry, mostly).

Edited by Yosharian, 26 October 2015 - 10:20 AM.

[Alex Gorsky]

Yosharian, on 26 October 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Most of them cannot boat energy which makes them weaksauce. Sure they can save tonnage by engine switching/optimising, but it means nothing if they can't equip weaponry comparable to the Omnimechs.

That said, the HBK will have a niche as a dual-gauss platform while the Jenner will be able to boat super-light SRMs, so those two particular builds will probably find their place in the meta. However the specifics of these builds could make or break them (how much ammo they can reasonably carry, mostly).

HBK IIC-A easy to fit 2lpl+2or3ermeds metabuild or 6mpl with hight mounted, and it just 50 tonner

HBK IIC-C mount meta gaus+4erml

Edited by Alex Gorsky, 26 October 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[Yosharian]

Alex Gorsky, on 26 October 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

HBK IIC-A easy to fit 2lpl+2or3ermeds metabuild or 6mpl with hight mounted, and it just 50 tonner

HBK IIC-C mount meta gaus+4erml

HBK can do a variety of good hill-humper builds, yeah. That said, the SCR can do all those things and has a 5 ton advantage over it. The HBK's hitboxes are an unknown currently, which puts the SCR way above it for those kind of builds. Remember the SCR can potentially equip TWELVE lasers.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yosharian, on 26 October 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Most of them cannot boat energy which makes them weaksauce. Sure they can save tonnage by engine switching/optimising, but it means nothing if they can't equip weaponry comparable to the Omnimechs.

That said, the HBK will have a niche as a dual-gauss platform (or a hill-humping laser boat, yes Alex Gorsky) while the Jenner will be able to boat super-light SRMs, so those two particular builds will probably find their place in the meta. However the specifics of these builds could make or break them (how much ammo they can reasonably carry, mostly).

Weaksauce?

HGN: 3 cLPL, Gauss, 21-22 DHS with XL 325, JJ, could also do 2 UAC10s and 2 cERPPCs. Try it on a Dire, its pretty nasty.
Orion: Gauss, 2 cLPL, 2 cERMLs 19 DHS with XL 325
HBK: Can Dual Gauss poptart, Can energy boat with high hardpoints
Jenner: 5 cerMLs, 4 cMPLs (maybe), 6 cSPLs...

Hardly weaksauce!

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 26 October 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[cSand]

Trying to decide if I want to buy the HGN IIC ala carte...

The main one I want though (2 ballistic arm) is the preorder variant..

[Coolant]

I only got the Orion, but really looking forward to it as the building process will be so different

[Sarlic]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 October 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Weaksauce?

HGN: 3 cLPL, Gauss, 21-22 DHS with XL 325, JJ, could also do 2 UAC10s and 2 cERPPCs. Try it on a Dire, its pretty nasty.
Orion: Gauss, 2 cLPL, 2 cERMLs 19 DHS with XL 325
HBK: Can Dual Gauss poptart, Can energy boat with high hardpoints
Jenner: 5 cerMLs, 4 cMPLs (maybe), 6 cSPLs...

Hardly weaksauce!

Isnt this exactly why some people are tired of this kind of mainstream builds?

[Gas Guzzler]

Sarlic, on 26 October 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Isnt this exactly why some people are tired of this kind of mainstream builds?

There are lasers gauss ppcs and autocannons in there. The only weapons not represented were missiles. SRMs spread too much damage for me, and are way too close range. They are fun sometimes but don't really get me excited. The Jenner can do cSPL and SRM combination, or just full SRMs. Both would do fine. And honestly, the other mechs can boat a reasonable amount of SRMs as well, which would make for an okay cSPL/SRM brawler, but that playstyle doesn't really tickle my personal fancy.

And LRMs.. not interested in indirect fire lock on weapons that spread damage. So yeah, options are limited. I'm not sure what you want... better SRMs? I am with you there.

[Sarlic]

Indeed SRMs.

The SRMs has been in a terrible state for years.

I hope we will see variety though, but i doubt it.

Edited by Sarlic, 26 October 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sarlic, on 26 October 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Indeed SRMs.

The SRMs has been in a terrible state for years.

I hope we will see variety though, but i doubt it.

I mean... there is SOME variety. Just no missiles.

[Yosharian]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 October 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Weaksauce?

HGN: 3 cLPL, Gauss, 21-22 DHS with XL 325, JJ, could also do 2 UAC10s and 2 cERPPCs. Try it on a Dire, its pretty nasty.
Orion: Gauss, 2 cLPL, 2 cERMLs 19 DHS with XL 325
HBK: Can Dual Gauss poptart, Can energy boat with high hardpoints
Jenner: 5 cerMLs, 4 cMPLs (maybe), 6 cSPLs...

Hardly weaksauce!

I already mentioned the HBK in my post, and yes the Jenner can run lasers just as easily as SRMs.

Evidently I was mostly referring to the Orion and Highlander. They lack the OMGWTFBBQ hardpoint inflation that the Timber and Dire have at their disposal.

[MischiefSC]

The ironic thing?

The top Clan omnis are so OP that IS mechs with access to Clan tech are still likely to be inferior.

That's about as clear a statement about how OP the clan mechs are as I can make.

We are, admittedly, missing how beneficial some of this clan tech will be. 2slot DHS and that they can get Endo/FF for the same 'cost' as just Endo for the IS will free up tonnage. I expect them to be a bit better than anyone expects.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yosharian, on 26 October 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

I already mentioned the HBK in my post, and yes the Jenner can run lasers just as easily as SRMs.

Evidently I was mostly referring to the Orion and Highlander. They lack the OMGWTFBBQ hardpoint inflation that the Timber and Dire have at their disposal.

True, but that HGN will pack a 54 point alpha at 660 m with that build I suggested... which is pretty nice. The Orion will do gauss vomit to 55 damage at 445 m, also not bad.

I guess I was really going after the term "weaksauce" as they aren't exactly weak, they just have some minor issues that make them slightly less than ideal. That low hip ballistic on the Orion for instance.

[Lightfoot]

Clan has better Lasers, that's it in MWO. The ACs are all junk compared to Inner Sphere. It could be a bug too. Clan LRMs are junk, useless unless boated to extremes. SSRMs are garbage in MWO. Clan ERPPCs are too hot for DHS 1.4.

I decided to go Clan when PGI nerfed Inner Sphere Gauss and PPCs before ever even seeing a Clan mech in Test. Basically you never nerf Inner Sphere anything if you a sending them against Clan tech.

IIc mechs should be better than the Clan omnimechs in MWO. Change equipment and engine would unleash Clan tech. Likely the IIc's will end up having fixed engines too. However, this is why MWO's omnimechs should not have fixed equipment. The Clan weapons get balanced for the Mad Cat and Direwolf and most other Clan mechs become unusable.

[Alan Davion]

Lightfoot, on 26 October 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Clan has better Lasers, that's it in MWO. The ACs are all junk compared to Inner Sphere. It could be a bug too. Clan LRMs are junk, useless unless boated to extremes. SSRMs are garbage in MWO. Clan ERPPCs are too hot for DHS 1.4.

I decided to go Clan when PGI nerfed Inner Sphere Gauss and PPCs before ever even seeing a Clan mech in Test. Basically you never nerf Inner Sphere anything if you a sending them against Clan tech.

IIc mechs should be better than the Clan omnimechs in MWO. Change equipment and engine would unleash Clan tech. Likely the IIc's will end up having fixed engines too. However, this is why MWO's omnimechs should not have fixed equipment. The Clan weapons get balanced for the Mad Cat and Direwolf and most other Clan mechs become unusable.

It's been explained several times that IIC mechs will have the exact same construction rules as IS mechs, that means everything can be swapped or upgraded, including engines. The ONLY thing we don't know is how much Clan engines will cost in terms of CBills.

[Mcgral18]

For the first time, there will not be a Terribad robot in a mech pack.

Not all extra-ordinary, but they will all be adequate to amazeballs.

[MauttyKoray]

El Bandito, on 25 October 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

And here we can observe a Clan tech superiority denialist, in his natural environment.
Compact and durable CXL engine, 2 slot DHS, 7 slot endo & ferro, free CASE that even protects the limbs, lighter and more compact equipments and weapons... only thing that is holding up the IS side is heavy quirks.

Haven't had time to check this topic lately, but would like to chime in on this one way back on page 1. I'm not a Clan elitist or any such ****, yes I play clans in CW but I also run my IS beauties in pub queue (currently XPing out the Jenner). I never said the clan tech was balanced vs the IS, all I said was that it wasn't as OP as everyone bitched out. The problem was always the outlying mechs that had ALL the advantages, meanwhile the other clan omnis were comparable in performance. Its why you always only saw a handful of, and the same, clan mechs used in meta every time.

1. CXL gets negatives when a torso is taken out and no clan mech can take a standard. Speed also can't be changed (but yes, heavies are already pretty damn quick) like the IS mechs and swapped to increase tonnage or use up left over.

2. 2 Slot DHS/Lighter+smaller equipment - Most Clan mechs have less overall tonnage and space than a comparable IS mech. The outliers being the obvious exception and part of the reason clan tech seems more overpowered than it is. (I'm not saying its not, just not quite as bad as whined about)

3. You also can't change the Endo/FF on any of the mechs. This is part of the reason Clan omnis within themselves are imbalanced. Things like the Crow, Timber, and others have all this and the room to spare, creating a massive power difference even between them and the rest of the clan lineup.

4. Free CASE - Most clan mechs don't have any leg/head spots to throw ammo into and keep it safe like you can on most IS mechs. But then again if I remember correctly its also technically built in as part of their tonnage so its technically not 'free', its just not a visible, modifiable factor. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% on the Clan omni construction from TT or the values behind this game.

Pre-quirk, a test was done and yes the Clans were winning, by a few percent. There was less than a 10% difference in the wins between both sides if I remember right, so its a joke to say that the Clans were really that overpowered. Sure the tech may have been better but a clan mech isn't gonna win a game, the pilot does that.

That aside, the new PTS tests so far have been encouraging and look like balance may finally be headed in the right direction. People like to ***** and moan about what PGI does, but for the small team they are they've pumped out considerable content for a live game that they also have to QA constantly and bug fix. Things are not close to perfect, but from the absolutely ****** point they were at under IGP, progress HAS been made, and now they're going back and working on tweaking things to balance it.

Besides, with TT the tech was imbalanced for a damn good lore reason, silly IS and their technological losses and all. Plus it was balanced because Clanners as you said cost more and had to use smaller forces, and they fought under a code that IS did not. I'm one of those people that wouldn't have taken any of that 'captured clan mech with an IS pilot' ******** that people pulled constantly.

[Lightfoot]

Some Clan mech designs are great allowing you to peek over a ridge and shoot while barely exposing yourself. Inner Sphere gets some too like the Jagermech. Some Clan mechs are clunkers like the Summoner which has to stand in the open to not hit ground objects. I think the Clans just get more that can shoot from cover which makes them win more often. That and ER Mediums, because everything else in Clan Tech sucks in one way or another. It's lighter, but that doesn't affect omnimechs with giant engines and low payload. Clan IIc's will be able to boat the lighter weapons though. One of the Orion IIc's even comes with 2xUAC10's stock. True they have few hardpoints, but this never stops true rocket science in Mechlab!