246 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

Pjwned nailed it. I'm one of those that thinks ttk is too low at the moment. So those weapons he mentioned should be the only ones buffed. I think boated lasers are OP but 2 or 4 lasers isn't bad so I don't want a universal laser nerf. Maybe more ghost heat, lower heat cap, increasing loss of accuracy when firing more than 4 weapons at once. Or a mix of those. I just want to see something besides energy boats doing well.

[Daelen Rottiger]

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Weak, illogical players destroy their own game. Not the meta.

I would use harsher, simpler and more accurate terms to describe this group of players but i'm not sure if those are against the terms. Ever since i started playing this game, i have seen the same weak, self entitled players whining about how other people are better than them. I thought i'll post a riposte to their whining.

Every one of us have the same options to play whatever you think is the best. Why some people deliberately choose to play a bad build or playstyle and then whine that it is bad is beyond me.

It's like in World of warcraft, knowing that a build is bad and deliberately choosing that build. Or knowing that a 200 dps weapon is inferior to a 400 dps weapon and picking the 200 dps weapon because it's shinier. Or in real life, you need to destroy a wall and were given the option of choosing a sledgehammer or a penknife and choosing the penknife, then whining that the penknife isn't getting the job done as well as your friend who took the sledgehammer.

As to the comment from low skilled players saying that "meta tryhards" are not having fun, i have this to say:

Fun is subjective. Playing sub optimal builds is fun to you. Not so to me. I like playing optimal builds. I like steamrolling my enemies. And so far, i'm having a lot of fun doing just that.

Besides, if you're having so much fun using crappy builds, why are you crying and whining on the forums about how "meta tryhards" are steamrolling you? Or are you afraid that if you actually played the "meta" AND still played crappily, you wouldn't have an excuse to protect your already bruised ego? Your ego would be utterly destroyed beyond recognition.

When you say that you hate meta and that the current meta is destroying the game, what you're essentially saying is not so much that you hate meta. It's more of: I don't like the CURRENT meta and i want MY BUILD (which happens to be bad currently) to be the meta.

Guess what? If YOUR BUILD and playstyle became the new meta, I would take that build and steamroll you with it anyway.

The meta changes constantly. When it was poptarting, i used poptart builds and weapons and steamrolled with it. Now it's even easier, laser vomit. So i use laser vomit and steamroll with it. The meta changes and you must change along with it or be food for the steamrollers. This is the way of life.

Besides, even if you used the meta, you'll probably still be food. Given the same build/mech, some players are just flat out better than others. Given the same weapons, some soldiers are marksmen and some are cannon fodder. Given equal opportunities and equal tools, some people get farther ahead in life than others.

These are the hard truths of life.

OP this is one of the biggest pieces of **** I've ever read.

People are different, the definition of fun for everyone is different. Your definition of fun isn't better than anyone elses.

This is a game! Relating it to "the hard truths of life" is utter bull**** - one's requirements to life may differ a bit to those of VR gaming, you know!

If this game, your skill and success means so much to you - so be it. But don't run over people who don't care as much as you do.

It's PGIs job/intention to create an environment where every mindset can exist.

Thank you!

[Greyhart]

There will always be a meta build in any game. The meta is the build that is easiest to play and has the fewest disadvantages.

I have no problem with the meta being there and there should always be debate about it.

However in a game where there is not a linear progression (level 20 is better than level 2) the options open to the player should be roughly balanced i.e. one should not be overwhelmingly better than another e.g. axe should not do double the damage in half the time of a sword.

All options should be viable even if one is marginally better

[Sarlic]

Greyhart, on 30 October 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

There will always be a meta build in any game. The meta is the build that is easiest to play and has the fewest disadvantages.

I have no problem with the meta being there and there should always be debate about it.

However in a game where there is not a linear progression (level 20 is better than level 2) the options open to the player should be roughly balanced i.e. one should not be overwhelmingly better than another e.g. axe should not do double the damage in half the time of a sword.

All options should be viable even if one is marginally better

The main problem with this game is the huge gap between weapons.

But some of these people won't get it, does not matter how many times you tell them.

It would be different of the gap was smaller and there was still meta.Then things of 'meta' *complaints* would be different.

Edited by Sarlic, 30 October 2015 - 02:21 AM.

[Kilo 40]

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

i have seen the same weak, self entitled players whining about how other people are better than them. I thought i'll post a riposte to their whining.

...
Why some people deliberately choose to play a bad build or playstyle and then whine that it is bad is beyond me.

...

this entire post was just a response to an argument no one has made...ever.

[Kjudoon]

Just a few factions can be outlined by that Pjwned.

• Those who want to win by any means the game rules 'legally' allow regardless of consequences.
  
• Those who want this like any other FPS out there on the market.
  
• Those who want to play the game to some degree like the Mechwarrior games used to be played.
  
• Those who want to play the game towards what Battletech novels and lore envisioned.
  
• Those who want to play the game as close to Battletech TT as possible.
  
• Those who are here to socialize and play as an excuse to be with friends.

As you can guess. a few of these factions will not get along with one another or be happy with compromise or anything that whittles at their desired vision. PGI needs to decide who will best serve their ability to profit and create a game they're proud of.

This is overlayed with the same tropes of gamers that are universal to the gaming community and the same reasons that bring players to any of the games out there. This means there are some empathetic nurturing people looking to socialize and create community just as much as there are destructive sociopaths looking to harm people and enjoy the chaos they create out there.

People need to use a lot of discernment here, just as much as in real life as to who you allow to influence you or into your life. Not everyone here is saying truth or has your best interest at heart. Every poster has their own agenda, and those who claim they don't are the ones who are most dangerous. The person who doesn't have the agenda doesn't spend their time commenting. They just play.

Edited by Kjudoon, 30 October 2015 - 02:34 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Kjudoon, on 30 October 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

People need to use a lot of discernment here, just as much as in real life as to who you allow to influence you or into your life. Not everyone here is saying truth or has your best interest at heart. Every poster has their own agenda, and those who claim they don't are the ones who are most dangerous. The person who doesn't have the agenda doesn't spend their time commenting. They just play.

I don't have an agenda - really not

[PholkLorr]

Some people have problems with reading comprehension. I am not defending laser vomit. In fact, i think some weapons need buffs. Like srms, and all ballistics other than gauss. Biggest joke of all is ac2. I would love to see these weapons become more viable. But they aren't. So I use the best builds and the best weapons. Point being:whatever the best weapons or builds are, I'll be using it.

I'm not defining fun for anybody. I defined it for myself: fun is steamrolling my enemies. If you think stock mechs are fun, go do it.

Ttk is fine to me. Compared to every other fps I've played, the Ttk in here is insanely high. In other games, the Ttk is 0.1 second to 3 seconds. Usually 1 second. Also, every single enemy has the profile and speed of a fs9. So coming from a faster game and moving to a slower game, this game is ezmode.

And to the guy who said that this thread is a response to nothing, scroll down the forums a little. Some dude made a thread named "meta builds are destroying the game!".

Edited by PholkLorr, 30 October 2015 - 03:09 AM.

[oldradagast]

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Weak, illogical players destroy their own game. Not the meta.

I would use harsher, simpler and more accurate terms to describe this group of players but i'm not sure if those are against the terms. Ever since i started playing this game, i have seen the same weak, self entitled players whining about how other people are better than them. I thought i'll post a riposte to their whining.

The "hard truth" is that you're not even a good troll. I'll give you a 2/5, with the only points being granted for the astounding length of your egotistical drivel and a bonus for proper grammar and spelling.

As for the rest, here are a few other hard truths:

- Not everyone is a hyper-competitive sociopath who turns everything into an epeen competition and who gets his jollies out of making certain nobody else is having fun and he's the center of attention. A good number of us actually have empathy and common sense and realize that the purpose of a multi-player game is for everyone to have fun, not to glorify the bloated ego of a single sad sack.

- If you play meta and worship it, by definition you are NOT one of the "skilled elite." Meta is just another word for "the easiest path to victory" - and since when are the people who take the easy road the most skilled? They are not. Laugh it up at all the "bads" who are actually seeking a challenge while you cower in your dual Gauss "Skill Wolf" or whatever meta trash you're playing. Nobody is impressed.

I have far more respect for a guy who does above average in a challenging mech than I do for a guy who does well above average using a meta-crutch mech. And I have no respect for hyper-competitive sociopaths who turn everything into an epeen polishing competition and who are blind to their own hypocrisy and monumental flaws. Grow up.

[Dino Might]

Aren't you just a peach?

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Weak, illogical players destroy their own game. Not the meta.

I would use harsher, simpler and more accurate terms...

You are the epitome of self-restraint.

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

It's like in World of warcraft...

'nuff said.

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

I like playing optimal builds. I like steamrolling my enemies. And so far, i'm having a lot of fun doing just that.

Speaks volumes to your character.

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

This is the way of life.

MWO = life. Got it.

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Given the same weapons, some soldiers are marksmen and some are cannon fodder. Given equal opportunities and equal tools, some people get farther ahead in life than others.

These are the hard truths of life.

MWO = real soldiering.
MWO = life x2

Good stuff!

[adamts01]

PholkLorr, on 30 October 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

Some people have problems with reading comprehension. I am not defending laser vomit. In fact, i think some weapons need buffs. Like srms, and all ballistics other than gauss. Biggest joke of all is ac2. I would love to see these weapons become more viable. But they aren't. So I use the best builds and the best weapons. Point being:whatever the best weapons or builds are, I'll be using it.
!".

Now you're just completely contradicting yourself. You'd love to see other weapons buffed? What's the difference between buffing said weapons or nerfing lasers? Really just wording. They're both bringing the game closer to balance, accomplishing the same goal. The people you're whining and crying about are asking for exactly that. Look in the mirror buddy.

[9thDeathscream]

Well If you like easy mode. Good for you.

Some of us like a challenge.

I get more satisfaction killing a Mech with a sub par non meta build.

(Oh and TTK in MWO should be high they are armoured vehicles not a douche with a bullet proof vest being killed with a RPG in a fps like BF4 or COD)

[Kilo 40]

PholkLorr, on 30 October 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

And to the guy who said that this thread is a response to nothing, scroll down the forums a little. Some dude made a thread named "meta builds are destroying the game!".

an obviously new player made 1 thread, and instead of responding to that one new player in the thread he made, you decided to whine about imaginary people you see here all the time, making imaginary arguments.

[Rum Duke]

I get the highly competitive playstyle, it's a totally valid way to play it. But it is just one of the ways. I on the other hand am a fluffier player and prefer lore and such. But that's just another way.

That's the beauty of the tier system and the ability to choose opponents. People who get most out of playing the 'best meta builds' probably find it best to play other people playing in the same style. Then there's challenge and that certainly for me is a lot of where fun comes from. Realistic challenge. Surely it's best competing against other people playing the same 'game'. Not to say that all tier one and two will be 'meta', far from it, but I imagine a lot of those people will head that way.

If going down the ultimate warrior line, there can't be anything more satisfying than facing a 'worthy and challenging' opponent and coming out on top. If the traditional ego of the hero is anything to go by then the two ultra-competitive teams seek each other out on the field. Lest the cries of chicken cry out through the land. It's not like there's the threat of death as in real, brutal conflict. No glory in raiding the villages (much as a sharpened pitchfork in canny hands is not to be sniffed at).

Edited by Aelvar Kodai, 30 October 2015 - 03:55 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

All I read was Idiot; so I came.

[Felbombling]

From my perspective, anyone complaining about meta this or meta that is really just wishing PGI was working at a different pace to close some of the performance gap. Frankly, I don't see PGI getting to a point where they can even out game balance because the core game mechanics are screwed up in the first place. It is like herding cats.

What does it say about the game in general and us as a player base when the first thing everyone seems to do with a Hellbringer is strip the weapons out of the arms, remove all the armour, and then start packing the torsos with energy / ballistic weapons? Hey, those arms are kind of important for firing arc purposes, but not as important as having higher weapon mounts and the extra tonnage saved by not protecting those arms with armour. That is a symptom of poorly thought out game mechanics right there.

What PGI could do to curb some of the meta would be to take away a tool or two that the meta builds use to become meta builds. For example, I'd stop allowing them to strip armour off of one empty arm and force matched armour totals on mirrored sections, like left arm and right arm or left torso and right torso. Perhaps create 'signature' weapon slots that must be filled by an original weapon or similar so that the Hellbringer situation can no longer happen. I don't know, it just seems obvious to me that we have too much freedom in the Mech Lab, so the game will never be balanced.

You watch... when the Warhammer comes out, I can almost guarantee that everyone and their dog will strip the arms and move the heavy weapons up into the higher torso energy mounts. What does that tell you?

[Dolph Hoskins]

Now THIS! is some of that comical drama that we have come to know and love from this forum. Thanks for wasting the time to write that satirical piece...oh wait....were you being serious???

[ShinVector]

Its the BEST PLAYER !!

[Daelen Rottiger]

PholkLorr, on 30 October 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

Some people have problems with reading comprehension. I am not defending laser vomit. In fact, i think some weapons need buffs. Like srms, and all ballistics other than gauss. Biggest joke of all is ac2. I would love to see these weapons become more viable. But they aren't. So I use the best builds and the best weapons. Point being:whatever the best weapons or builds are, I'll be using it.

I'm not defining fun for anybody. I defined it for myself: fun is steamrolling my enemies. If you think stock mechs are fun, go do it.

Ttk is fine to me. Compared to every other fps I've played, the Ttk in here is insanely high. In other games, the Ttk is 0.1 second to 3 seconds. Usually 1 second. Also, every single enemy has the profile and speed of a fs9. So coming from a faster game and moving to a slower game, this game is ezmode.

And to the guy who said that this thread is a response to nothing, scroll down the forums a little. Some dude made a thread named "meta builds are destroying the game!".

So what's your point?! Please give a summary?! - cause all I see is "I am the greatest, stop whining your opinions are destroying the game you noobs, learn and adapt but I am still the greatest"

What is the point of your thread in 3 sentences?

[PholkLorr]

oldradagast, on 30 October 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

I have far more respect for a guy who does above average in a challenging mech than I do for a guy who does well above average using a meta-crutch mech. And I have no respect for hyper-competitive sociopaths who turn everything into an epeen polishing competition and who are blind to their own hypocrisy and monumental flaws. Grow up.

Boy am I glad you're not in a leadership position in the government or military. Next time a war breaks out you will send up biplanes to fight fighter jets. Or fishing boats armed with spears to fight destroyers.

And yes, epeen polishing is fun to me, as is stomping players both good and bad (Alot more bads than good though) . That's why I do it duh. Hypocrisy? Here's a person telling others not to prescribe what fun is for others, telling me that mym own idea of fun is bad. What's worse than a hypocrite is a hypocrite who fails at reading comprehension.

I've never once said that fun should *only* be defined as winning. Or playing meta builds. Or stock builds. I don't define what fun is for anybody but myself. Only you can decide what's fun for you. If it's playing stock builds, do it. For me, it's winning.