173 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Looking at those weapon changes... it almost feels as though you read my Volume on Weapon balance.

[Aylek]

The proposed changes to the skill tree made me cringe. I already Thought about cancelling my WHM order, even though this is just a PTS.

Edited by Aylek, 04 November 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Wrote it always somewhere else

Lily from animove, on 04 November 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

I just dislike all the recent changes because they simply balance NOTHING. They just make the clanmetachassis get closer to the is metachassis. But they do not address the issue of interchassis balance between good IS chassis vs bad IS chassis and good clanchassis vs bad clanchassis.

And the worst part is, that PGI creates "balance concetps" that are too complicated and too complex. This is creating an even bigger cliff of lerning "curve" for newbies and makes no sense. How do you think will going to steam work with such a unneeded complicated additional system ontop of the already complex mechwarrior? There is truly no mech designed in the BT with hand actuators big enough to meme the required facepalmsize.

They could simply have unlocked all mechs now to be "empty chassis" a la MW3 with hardpoints and let people just outfit them with whatever they want. Then the only part to balance then would be about hardpoints.

and of course we discuss about a fixed hgeattreshold sinc eages yet PGI avoids doign thsi simple change. instead they mess around with heattresholds given from the heatsinks. Which directly just screws over all mechs with the alck of tonnage or clanmechs with fixed equipment not able to work around or with these changes.

But this mess and direction MWO goes, too complictaed, too unbalanced I don't even paly the game anymore because this just mad me lose all interest in it and that being probably the only way in a game today to show a developer that it is the wrong direction. At leats givign feedbakc in the forum that many experienced and good pilots gave seemed to be ignored completely, instead twitterbuddyness seems to have a lot more impact to decisions, no matter how good they actually are.

The only good idea was implementing Infowarfare with damages, since this was needed to give informations a true impacting value, but even the execution of this messing up with ranges instead the damage itself was just unnecessarily nonsense. They could have simply altered this with a multiplicator like: 0,75x when shooting an untargetted mech. Simple and easy to implemet and understand for a newplayer. Instead a giant beast of whateverstrange system related to ranges that even alter with modules, weapons and a lot other diferent variables.
A Heaven for min/maxin pilots, and a mathematical hell for all casuals. Some people just wanna play a game, not study it.

inb4 someone says "just a part of rebalance" Yes any new part just makes things even more compelex and complictaed, truly going to help getting people into the game.

I wish you good luck PGI, but I doubt you gonna find this luck on the road you have chosen.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 November 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Livewyr]

Skill tree changes are fine. The heat dis was part of why TTK was so ridiculous.

[Tom Sawyer]

[Livewyr]

What's complicated about it, Lily?

[Lily from animove]

Livewyr, on 04 November 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

What's complicated about it, Lily?

Take someone who never played a Mechwarrior title and explain him how to build a good mech and how the things you have seen in PTs 1 PTS 2 and PTS 3 works. then you knwo it, especially with the nice ingame documentations of these changes.

It's not hard for us because we know nearly anything and just have to adopt to the little delta they add, but overall if you see the entire system and take someone without any idea about it, it's too complicated.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 November 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[sycocys]

Lily from animove, on 04 November 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Take someone who never played a Mechwarrior title and explain him how to build a good mech and how the things you have seen in PTs 1 PTS 2 and PTS 3 works. then you knwo it, especially with the nice ingame documentations of these changes.

It's not hard for us because we know nearly anything and just have to adopt to the little delta they add, but overall if you see the entire system and take someone without any idea about it, it's too complicated.

How is that any different than what has been on the live servers since closed beta? People that haven't played mw aren't going to understand how the game works until they play it.

[Torgun]

Unless something else is added instead of the removed quirks, tons of older mechs are just going to be goddarn awful. The quirks are actually needed to not let a large amount of mechs be really, really bad. If nothing is done about that, it's all pointless when it comes to balance and testing pointless things really doesn't interest me.

[Fubbit]

1) "Agility" type skill tree items being nerfed down seems bad. The mechs are going to "feel" very different. Someone noted that this might add to a more stompy robot feeling. Maybe. The DPS related ones make way more sense to nerf down to me.

2) LRM 5s? I feel like they were already way better than the larger launchers.

3) SRMs need more love than that i think. more ( like AC20 ) speed, more range?

I like pretty much everything else. I'm really excited to see how it plays out with the tough-quirked mechs.

[VortexD]

Hmm i see these changes balancing out....Wont impact time to kill since nerfing twist speed so hard will make it much harder to spread damage which was one of the things that required skill....

I find the heat changes in skill tree right on but the mobility nerfs seem harsh...especially twist speed.

Edited by VortexD, 04 November 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[kka]

I really like the SRM and AC2 buffs.

However, I'm still waiting LBX10 50 % cooldown buff!

[Sparkymarkyp]

Good luck getting feedback in single heat sink chages. ...not m/any folk use them.

[Lily from animove]

sycocys, on 04 November 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

How is that any different than what has been on the live servers since closed beta? People that haven't played mw aren't going to understand how the game works until they play it.

its more complex, its not the same, hwo can you even write this without aleady relasing what you wrote is nonsense.

[Livewyr]

Lily from animove, on 04 November 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Take someone who never played a Mechwarrior title and explain him how to build a good mech and how the things you have seen in PTs 1 PTS 2 and PTS 3 works. then you knwo it, especially with the nice ingame documentations of these changes.

It's not hard for us because we know nearly anything and just have to adopt to the little delta they add, but overall if you see the entire system and take someone without any idea about it, it's too complicated.

And this is different than the live server... how?


Besides, take someone who has never played WoT or WoWS and explain to them
Why they can't see some ships or tanks in the middle of an open field/ 7kilometers away?.
How much pen they need to damage what tank, whether they can pen it, where to shoot it. (Even veterans still have some trouble with that)
When should they use HE against tanks When should they use HE against ships?
Why do they get seen when firing from behind one bush and not two?
Why did they shoot that tank in the side and only break its track?
Why did my round bounce? It worked on the Sherman... why not the T-34?
I shot that Colorado Class Battleship in the back of the ship and did 1300 damage, I shot the Izumo Class Battleship in the back and did 4000.. why?
How the hell do I use Artillery?
How the hell do I use Aircraft Carriers?

WoT and WoWS are both pretty complicated games, and yet they have massive player bases. (WoWS less so, because it just went live a little while ago.)

MWO is not incredibly complicated, however I *do* think they need to make more academy videos like WoWS did to explain mechanics. (And btw: Neither of those games put links to those videos in game. WoT has a training area like what we have now... WoWS- you have to go find it.)

Edited by Livewyr, 04 November 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[Davers]

JagdFlanker, on 03 November 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

wrong direction with LRMs, it doesn't make any sense to make heavier launchers worse since havn't seen anything other than LRM5s and 10s in a looooong time

much better direction:

remove LRM ghost heat
make all LRM launchers have a 4sec or 5sec cooldown
remove the ability to chain fire LRMs - alpha only. also all LRM mounts are linked as 1 so if you fire 1 launcher you fire them all

this makes LRMs a proper artillery weapon - you either fire all or none, and it gives the opponent time to find cover between volleys. no need to adjust the current spread since large volleys should have a relative amount of missiles miss just to prevent extreme boating, and it will make LRMs even more of a huge waste to fire against fast lights.

and finally since all the mounts fire simultaneously as 1 mount it is now a disadvantage to mount 4 LRM5s over 1 LRM20

I think all the launchers should have the same cooldown and spread, that way the larger ones just put out more missiles.

Dak Darklighter, on 03 November 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

Once again, more complicated, convoluted nonsense instead of really simple balances like

Pinpoint damage problem: Introduce Reticle bob, weapon recoil and weapon impact physics and have torso weapons point straight.
Laser vomit problem: Reduce the heat cap by 30% and hot (~70%) mechs incur movement/HUD/accuracy/ammo explosion penalties.
Deathballing problem: Introduce Stackpoling (20% chance if killed by engine destruction) that incurs high heat and 15% spread damage across nearby mechs.

Y'know, things that have existed and been a staple of MechWarrior since MW3 in 1999.

1. Wouldn't recoil only affect ACs? Lasers and gauss wouldn't have recoil, not sure if launching missiles would have much either.
2. So, basically remove all the energy only mechs out of the game?
3. More RNG makes the game better?

Fenrisian Wolf, on 04 November 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

Why? Why any of this? Im tired of all the crybabies on here that talk about nerf this and buff that and lore this and lore that. GO PLAY LIVING LEGENDS OR ON OF THE OTHER SINGLE PLAYER MECHWARRIOR GAMES!. Stop listening to all the whiners they are never going to be happy and they are still going to suck at the game even after you buff and nerf it to the ground. This player base needs to understand that you need to evolve around the game instead of crying to PGI and wanting the game to evolve around them.

Kind of like how you want the game to revolve around your ideas?

[Desintegrator]

Oh man - all basis skills are brought down to a value where they will do NOTHING.

So the only important thing in the Mech skill tree will be the "SPEED TWEAK".

You can forget about the rest.

And that is not a good system. It should make fun to improve and skill your Mech further and further, but this new skills are not worth mentioning. So it will be even more boring to get these 3 Mechs mastered than in the past.

[Davers]

Desintegrator, on 04 November 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Oh man - all basis skills are brought down to a value where they will do NOTHING.

So the only important thing in the Mech skill tree will be the "SPEED TWEAK".

You can forget about the rest.

And that is not a good system. It should make fun to improve and skill your Mech further and further, but this new skills are not worth mentioning. So it will be even more boring to get these 3 Mechs mastered than in the past.

It's pretty much back to the numbers from Beta.

[Dawnstealer]

Looks awesome, but I still say you should balance Clan vs IS as Range vs Damage.

Clan weapons have a longer range and less drop-off, but do less max damage.

IS weapon do more damage, especially at close range, but drops off rapidly and has less range.

Should result in Clan mechs trying to play keep-away while IS mechs try to get into brawling range - just like lore.

Desintegrator, on 04 November 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Oh man - all basis skills are brought down to a value where they will do NOTHING.

So the only important thing in the Mech skill tree will be the "SPEED TWEAK".

You can forget about the rest.

And that is not a good system. It should make fun to improve and skill your Mech further and further, but this new skills are not worth mentioning. So it will be even more boring to get these 3 Mechs mastered than in the past.

I think that's kind of the point - if you unlock through your elites, it's like driving two different mechs. It's a gigantic advantage. I guess that's part of the point, too, but new players have enough of a curve to deal with.

[Tom Sawyer]

Sparkymarkyp, on 04 November 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Good luck getting feedback in single heat sink chages. ...not m/any folk use them.

If they make it so you can mount both single AND double heat sinks I will be a happy clam. Mount the singles in the legs and then go stand in the water. Twice as effective for a single slot.