144 replies to this topic

[Coolant]

kongman, on 05 November 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

i love assaults , but its just painful to play them , you cant play them like they are supposed to be played , all you do is get left behind , then when you do get to battle you die in 2 sec .

Which Assault do you pilot? Even a 95 ton Banshee goes 75 kph with speed tweak and a max engine. Battlemasters at 85 tons go 83.9 with speed tweak and max engine. Awesomes at 80 tons go around 86 kph.

You might try piloting an Assault with a bigger engine.

[ChronoBear]

Coolant, on 06 November 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

Which Assault do you pilot? Even a 95 ton Banshee goes 75 kph with speed tweak and a max engine. Battlemasters at 85 tons go 83.9 with speed tweak and max engine. Awesomes at 80 tons go around 86 kph.

You might try piloting an Assault with a bigger engine.

I don't know but cramming the biggest engine you can in an assault should not be answer... take a look at a Battletech manual, rarely is the largest engine available equiped.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I still do ok in Dires and the Atlas is as expected for such a poor mech these days. My high speed Banshee does well in the races so I don't count that.

I think one needs to drive assaults well with expereince to do anything useful with them. My first mech was a DDC so I tend to be an asssult pilot before any other class. No doubt in my mind heavy meta is the easy mode option in todays game. That's why you see so many of them.

[Apnu]

Khobai, on 05 November 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

PTR changes make assaults even worse

they lose most of their maneuverability, lose a lot of dissipation and heatcap, and gain nothing to really make up for it

Actually all classes do because they've removed the skill tree. its really bad for assaults who run weak engines like the DWF.

Still the OP's point is that players ditch the assaults when the match begins. That's the problem.

I don't run assaults much, I run medium mechs mostly. First thing I do in every PUG match is boogie over to the assaults. The action will find them sooner or later so that's the best place to be. Plus if I can help drive off the NASCAR flies, all the better.

[pwnface]

Apnu, on 06 November 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Still the OP's point is that players ditch the assaults when the match begins. That's the problem.

Yes, it is a problem when you are in solo queue or have a ****** team. It doesn't make assaults useless though, rather your team is being useless. If PGI were to fix the spawn points on their maps so assault mechs wouldn't be so susceptible to getting left behind or jumped in the first minute it would resolve the issue.

Assaults are in a decent place as they currently exist, maybe increase armor by like 10% across the board but besides that they are fine.

[Apnu]

pwnface, on 06 November 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Yes, it is a problem when you are in solo queue or have a ****** team. It doesn't make assaults useless though, rather your team is being useless. If PGI were to fix the spawn points on their maps so assault mechs wouldn't be so susceptible to getting left behind or jumped in the first minute it would resolve the issue.

Assaults are in a decent place as they currently exist, maybe increase armor by like 10% across the board but besides that they are fine.

On that I agree. Assaults aren't useless. They're pretty awesome, if supported. I like to PUG mediums so I'm usually in the light or medium/heavy lance and the first thing I do in a match is haul ass over to the assaults. I pick one to shadow (and pray it isn't a LRM boat) and let them pick targets that I fire on. The advantage for me is I've got mobile terrain to hide behind and that fatty is gonna attract a lot of the enemy team's aggression, leaving me open to do my thing. All I gotta do is not clog up their fire lanes.

I also agree that the drop points on many of the maps is so spread out, it hangs the assault lance out to dry from the get go. Like on Alpine and Tourmaline. Its painful to watch sometimes.

[Catra Lanis]

GreyNovember, on 05 November 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

Are we playing the same game.

Full disclosure. What do you actually pilot? You sound like someone who drives low tier assaults and is convinced that somehow light mechs are the most powerful OP weight class to ever exist. That, or you're bad at playing Dires, and are discounting the times you've gone against a Commando.

Or a Raven 4X.

Or A Jenner that has less than 6E.

Or a Myst Lynx.

Or a Kit fox. Or an Adder.

I have killed plenty of assaults 1 vs 1 in the 4X and a fair number in the Lynx. Since I am at best average that should tell you that something is not right with the LoLcheeath and the FS.

[pwnface]

Catra Lanis, on 06 November 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

I have killed plenty of assaults 1 vs 1 in the 4X and a fair number in the Lynx. Since I am at best average that should tell you that something is not right with the LoLcheeath and the FS.

Actually that tells us absolutely nothing as any mech is capable of killing any other mech. What actually matters is pilot skill. Do you think you can kill elite assault pilots in a light mech? It's a totally different experience when assaults shoot back at you and don't miss.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Apnu, on 06 November 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Actually all classes do because they've removed the skill tree. its really bad for assaults who run weak engines like the DWF.

Still the OP's point is that players ditch the assaults when the match begins. That's the problem.

I don't run assaults much, I run medium mechs mostly. First thing I do in every PUG match is boogie over to the assaults. The action will find them sooner or later so that's the best place to be. Plus if I can help drive off the NASCAR flies, all the better.

Could I give you a hug? There need to be more people like you.

I've played mostly assaults since beta, and I admit in my time I've seen them on the decline. It used to be, in earlier days, that assaults were the most played chassis with the most to offer. There was no speed tweak, and mechs using mostly STD engines weren't as fast. The relative lack of speed wasn't such a problem and having more payload made the difference. The days of the Stalker's first release come to mind, and I was in love from the moment I first set eyes on her.

Things are harder now. I can't say things should be as they were, when there were 5 assaults per team, but power creep has made it much better to avoid fire rather than tank fire. The assault has nothing to offer there any more.

Do you know how sad it is to hear people saying they mount 350 engines in their Atlas? Standard engines over 300 rating are just so...grossly inefficient. Sapping away the payload tonnage advantage in order to be able to match stride with a mech 20 tons lighter that isn't trying very hard, and having nothing else to show for it.

Something went wrong, somewhere, when an assault needed to have a heavy's base speed in order to survive the indifference of its own team. It's tough for an assault mech that's proud of its roots out there, the one that wants to be a ponderous death blimp like its daddy was in 3039.

Unfortunately an assault built to be an assault mech becomes very much dependent on team support in order to be effective. Teams in most pug matches are terrible at being teams, so many assaults are left to question their life choices and become oversized heavies instead so they're better at operating in an uncaring, unsupportive world. Those that stubbornly stick to their role ride a roller coaster of success and failure which depends entirely on circumstances outside their control.

That, above all else, is why assaults are largely maligned in the world of fast heavies. Those who fall behind are left behind.

[-Vompo-]

What went wrong is that players learned how the game works and started to gang on the assaults. Players don't take their smaller mechs face to face slug fest against most assault mechs because 1vs1 assault mechs are still extremely tough opponents for any mech in the game.

[Khobai]

Quote

Actually all classes do because they've removed the skill tree. its really bad for assaults who run weak engines like the DWF.

have you ever piloted an unskilled assault mech? its pretty much unplayable. of the four weight classes assaults are the only weight class that needs to be elited in order to reach a playable level of agility.

Even worse is the acceleration nerf which massively nerfs hillclimbing for assaults... the nerf was totally uncalled for because assaults already struggle immensely when it comes to climbing hills and walking over pebbles, vines, and pipes.

plus the huge dissipation, heat cap, and cooldown nerfs... all of which affect assaults the most.


Players have long told PGI what the problem with mech agility is and they utterly REFUSE to listen. The problem is that mech agility is directly linked to engine rating. Even post-nerf on the PTR, the timberwolf is still enjoying medium mech agility, because of its 375 engine.

The correct way to fix mech agility wouldve been to make mech turning speed based on the tonnage of the mech rather than the engine rating of the mech. Thats what needed to be changed. Not the skill trees.

Quote

Still the OP's point is that players ditch the assaults when the match begins. That's the problem.

The main cause of NASCARing was PGI introducing multiple fast clan heavies. The obvious solution to NASCARing is to slow down the fast clan heavies. Mechs like the timberwolf and ebon jaguar should not get speed tweak as part of their skill trees. Which further reinforces the idea that each mech (or at the very least each weight class) needs its own unique skill tree.

Edited by Khobai, 06 November 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Khobai, on 06 November 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

have you ever piloted an unskilled assault mech? its pretty much unplayable. of the four weight classes assaults are the only ones that need to be elited in order to reach an acceptable level of agility.

plus the huge dissipation, heat cap, and cooldown nerfs... all of which affect assaults the most.

and worst of all the acceleration nerf which massively nerfs hillclimbing for assaults... which already have difficulty when it comes to walking over pebbles, vines, and pipes.



Players have long told PGI what the problem with mech agility is and they utterly REFUSE to listen. The problem is that mech agility is directly linked to engine rating. Thats what needed to be changed. Not the skill trees.

Lights share that with assault, unelite mech suck but assault and light suffer the most. I dont think im fine with removing agility with engine rating, it cost a lot in term of tons to get a better engine or xl and agility boost was a nice perk if not the only perk.

Edited by DAYLEET, 06 November 2015 - 09:39 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I dont think im fine with removing agility with engine rating, it cost a lot in term of tons to get a better engine or xl and agility boost was a nice perk if not the only perk.

the only perks for a bigger engine should be faster max speed and more internal heatsinks.

turning speed and torso twist speed should have nothing to do with engine rating. they should be based on the tonnage of the mech.

a mech like the timberwolf should not nearly as fast and agile as a medium mech with a 300 engine just because it has a 375 engine; because all that accomplishes is making medium mechs obsolete. medium mechs should have a very obvious speed/agility advantage over heavies, and currently they dont.

heavies are way too dominant in this game and their relative speed/agility needs to be knocked down a peg.

Edited by Khobai, 06 November 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[Sakamoto Kazuma]

i haven't read all posts, but assaults need back up. other than that, they're moving death.
lights can't get hit else dead.

[Triordinant]

pwnface, on 06 November 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

It's a totally different experience when assaults shoot back at you and don't miss.

...resulting in spectacular killshots.

[DAYLEET]

Khobai, on 06 November 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

the only perks for a bigger engine should be faster max speed and more internal heatsinks.

turning speed and torso twist speed should have nothing to do with engine rating. they should be based on the tonnage of the mech.

a mech like the timberwolf should not nearly as fast and agile as a medium mech with a 300 engine just because it has a 375 engine; because all that accomplishes is making medium mechs obsolete. medium mechs should have a very obvious speed/agility advantage over heavies, and currently they dont.

heavies are way too dominant in this game and their relative speed/agility needs to be knocked down a peg.

If you want to level mech from the lower value and not increase them to the higher value we can talk. But assault are going to hurt bad./

[Khobai]

Quote

If you want to level mech from the lower value and not increase them to the higher value we can talk. But assault are going to hurt bad./

not really. most assaults use less than 325 engines.

delinking agility from engine size would really only affect larger engines like the 375 on the timberwolf.

you shouldnt be able to significantly increase agility just by putting a huge engine in your mech. a heavier weight class should never be as maneuverable as a lighter weight class.

Edited by Khobai, 06 November 2015 - 11:54 PM.

[Eider]

To be honest i agree. I tend to play all weights but i avoid lights the most. Not because they 'die easy' but rather because i find the opposite to be true. Speed plus lag shield and a half decent loadout and you can own any assault unless they get extremely lucky. Have srms? keep them turning, They about to face you? break off for a second then attack the rear. Being light also means you have an extremely low profile making peeking effective if you dont completely show yourself. If you want firepower and armor you go heavy.

[FinnMcKool]

Nothing matters as long as the screwed up voteing system is in place!


Get rid of the kiddy vote wins system!

[Weeny Machine]

Mystere, on 06 November 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I'd believe you if not for the fact that lights are still the least played in this game. Heavies still rule, with mediums and assaults alternating for second place.

...plus that you see mostly the ACH or FS. If the light mech class were so dominating, you would see a certain variety of mechs.