402 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

1453 R, on 14 November 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Jeebus friggin' Cripes. Piranha can't say anything without you grouches giving them hell over it. If they'd upended the table and put everything in you'd be screaming about them upsetting things and rushing out big changes before they're ready to make Steam release. Now that they've pulled Infotech for more testing and fine-tuning and stuck with just quirk and weapon changes, you people are screaming that they're not going nearly far enough and this isn't anywhere close to the world-shaking rebalance they promised.

Son of a what the good goddamn, guys. MAKE. UP. YOUR. DAMN. MINDS. At this point I'm halfway amazed Piranha hasn't sold the property for scrap, with the way you abusive jackwads keep kvetching about the dumbest damn stuff.

Infotech's not ready, so they pulled it. Cool, they can keep working on that and implement it when it is ready. The weapon balancing and quirk adjustments are ready, so they're going in now rather than being chained to Infotech. This is the sort of thing Piranha keeps a test server for, idiots. Would you prefer they experiment on Live?

There are days I don't know why I bother reading anything here anymore, and this is one of them. Good grief people around here are dense beyond description...

I don't seem to recall any mass threads decrying the nerf of ECM.

As a matter of fact, I only remember one person disappointed with ECM being nerfed to a reasonable state.. and while I won't name that person.. they are crazy and prefer imbalance to make it "hard mode" for them.

[Tordin]

I like the changes quite abit. Yes, there are still a few weapon specific based quirks, but almost all have been either reduced or combined/ generalised (range, cooldown etc) into an allround increase/ reduction for that specific weapon type.

Makes you not kinda chained to modify your mech after those specific weapon quirks as much. Instead kinda have more "freedom" of putting on any weapon you would wan instead of having the back thought of, "nah, gonna use only ppc on this once, well since it has quirks for it". Less meta focus is always good news.

The little odd thing is that they have kinda dropped off armor increase but combined its previous value into the new value including the structure increase. Its good I guess.
Great to see most mech gets increased survival when armors gone, though any increase should have been shown in the mechbay by the adjusters to increase/ decrease armor for the specific mech sections (arms, head, torso)

Also happy to see that ballistics and missiles get some much needed boosts, not much. But in the right direction. And to no forget the ECM reduction and speed increases in acc/ dece, yaw, pitch etc. Good news that!

Now, gotta wait to see how this turns out in the end, go for it PGI!

Edited by Tordin, 14 November 2015 - 10:46 AM.

[Racersky]

"Boar's Head "Crit Chance Receiving -25%" looks interesting with the new structure buffs. Why not on other AS?"

Overall quirks looks much better than it is live now. Yet the range quirks are still somewhat excessive as for me. Looking forward for the next Info-tech PTS.


Because its a hero mech? Are the other AS HERO? Noticed that HERO mechs got some "stuff"?

Edited by Racersky, 14 November 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[Ukos]

I am curious as to why the Crab and black knight lost their AMS quirks?

Are you intending as part of role warfare to make lights need to stick with the Assaults to provide protection and cover instead of the scouting and harassing role we should be in?

[Berean03]

Hmmm, I'm on the fence with this but I do like that my Shadowhawks are getting some love. Nice to see that I don't have to alter my Thunderbolt 9SE but I will watch the 5SS very carefully to see which way I want to build it.

[Sereglach]

MovinTarget, on 14 November 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

True, if the 172kph ceiling is not so easy to hit now, I feel a new ultrafast light coming on...

Speed Tweak really needs to just die, but at least they're dropping it some. That is a step in the right direction. Now it's only a solid 3 "free" engine size increase instead of 3-4.

Also, with this change we may seem some other adjustments down the line like giving Locusts a 200 engine cap (that one extra in-engine heat sink will make a huge difference). It could also allow for the entrance of the Dasher/Fire-Moth as well. Despite being primarily an IS pilot, I do like a lot of the clan lights (I'm a light mech junkie, in general); and that's one light I'd really like to see.

[Y E O N N E]

1453 R, on 14 November 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Jeebus friggin' Cripes. Piranha can't say anything without you grouches giving them hell over it. If they'd upended the table and put everything in you'd be screaming about them upsetting things and rushing out big changes before they're ready to make Steam release. Now that they've pulled Infotech for more testing and fine-tuning and stuck with just quirk and weapon changes, you people are screaming that they're not going nearly far enough and this isn't anywhere close to the world-shaking rebalance they promised.

Son of a what the good goddamn, guys. MAKE. UP. YOUR. DAMN. MINDS. At this point I'm halfway amazed Piranha hasn't sold the property for scrap, with the way you abusive jackwads keep kvetching about the dumbest damn stuff.

Infotech's not ready, so they pulled it. Cool, they can keep working on that and implement it when it is ready. The weapon balancing and quirk adjustments are ready, so they're going in now rather than being chained to Infotech. This is the sort of thing Piranha keeps a test server for, idiots. Would you prefer they experiment on Live?

There are days I don't know why I bother reading anything here anymore, and this is one of them. Good grief people around here are dense beyond description...

Your complaints about the complaining are incredibly misguided. People have been asking for very specific changes. Well-informed and experienced players have been asking for very specific changes. PGI made lots of changes, sure, but they were and are all dancing around what people have been asking for in some weird effort to avoid actually directly addressing the problems. That's what has people upset. And by this point, I shouldn't have to explain it to you (I know you keep in the loop), but I'd be happy to enumerate the complaints for you in a private message.

And, no, the weapon and 'Mech balance are not ready. I've played enough that I can tell you so just by looking at the numbers on the paper. As I said on Page 1, all any of this really does is move the collective together as one with very little adjustments to the disparities between any two 'Mechs or any two weapons.

[Vashramire]

Highlights
Weapon quirks now only in multiples of 5 and a lot more variety in generalised quirks.

• Less punishing if you don't run a specified weapon on a mech

Lots of armor/structure buffs/shifts across the board that actually make sense.

• ty for Locust leg armor

Missile range swapped in for velocity in most cases.

• more reliable hits hopefully

Chassis that are similar or have identical hardpoints now will feel more individual instead of feeling you wasted effort on the same mech twice.

• I have two different mechs, they should play like two different mechs

Laser duration quirks have mostly been moved to lighter mechs that don't have the armor to brawl or have few energy weapons.

• Assaults and Heavies losing this will need to expose themselves more to deal full damage as opposed to poke shooting. You are gaining durability in return. Lighter mechs that live on speed will become like scalpels on hit and runs.

Missiles spread down but CD up. SRM's/Streaks speed up. Heat scale on SRM's up.

• More missiles on target hopefully. Longer CD but high damage cluster alpha possible. Curious to see how much better Artemis does or doesn't make them.

Overall I like the direction this is taking. I haven't got hands on so I can't say what does or doesn't work but some quirks are still a bit high personally. Most have strayed away from buffing a certain weapon a particular mech boats too far but in most cases I think anything over 30%-40% is too much unless the mech just can't hold any amount of weapons(ie:LCT-1V). Quirks go hand in hand with weapons so I'm curious if MG's and Flamers will be addressed soon. Anything that had MG quirks or only could run MG's had their ballistic quirks removed and there are obviously no Flamer specific quirks. Basically AC2 is your crit gun now and it may be a force to be reckoned with. So far it looks promising though and I'm interested to see what this yields.

[Blackhound]

Diddi Doedel, on 13 November 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

Did I read that right? The Clan DOUBLE heatsinks now have the same heat capacity as an Inner Sphere SINGLE heatsink?

And now Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks have HIGHER Capacity than Clan Doubles had BEFORE they were nerfed to weaker than IS Singles. So what you have them doing is nerfing Clans (particularly the Lights that only have access to Lasers and no space for additional Heatsinks) across the board and buffing IS Laser Boats.

Because they're trying to break that Laser Vomit meta dontcha know.

[Tordin]

jellard, on 14 November 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

Hmmm, I'm on the fence with this but I do like that my Shadowhawks are getting some love. Nice to see that I don't have to alter my Thunderbolt 9SE but I will watch the 5SS very carefully to see which way I want to build it.

Agreed. My IS favorites. The wolfhounds, ravens, panthers, shadow hawks, enforcers, blackjacks, jagers, dragons, thunderbolts, banshees, maulers and zeuses all got changes that Im comfortable with and like

Though, Im also agreeing that the Clan DHS/ lasers get nerfed a bit too much...

Edited by Tordin, 14 November 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[cSand]

looks great.

glad the laser lock thing was ditched. Look forward to this going live. SImple changes FTW

Blackhound, on 14 November 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

And now Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks have HIGHER Capacity than Clan Doubles had BEFORE they were nerfed to weaker than IS Singles. So what you have them doing is nerfing Clans (particularly the Lights that only have access to Lasers and no space for additional Heatsinks) across the board and buffing IS Laser Boats.

Because they're trying to break that Laser Vomit meta dontcha know.

I think the nerfs may have been a bit much.

Clan mechs can boat mor elaser power though.


This will hopefully curb the "all alpha, all the time" that people play and force them to manage things a bit more. So you can't run in and wang off 2 alphas, you might actually have to use more than 1 mouse button

[Falcon One]

It has some interesting ideas but I think the main problem of the balance lays in a different part, it is not the values of the single weapons it is the fact that weapons get a synergy when used in a group instead of single fire. 1 PPC is useless 2 PPCs are ok, 3 would be great but while 3 PLL now allowed and even more dangerous then PPC, PPC still have the GH cap at 2.

This is just one example why I think there have to be a change in a different way.
>All Gauss Rifles have had their cooldowns increased from 4.0s to 5.5s.

It make my GaussFox useless, it is not competitive to light or medium and as sniper a single Gauss is to less to get a great impact. It is supposed to hit build that use 2 Gauss or combine it with laser vomit. So this change kill build that try to use a single Gauss as main weapon and also have less effect on builds that "abuse" the other off values of the Gauss (speed, range and heat)

So what I try to say, change the use of weapons and not the weapon itself. Every example in "reality" that use multiple weapon systems use it to increase fire rate and not try to hit 2 bullets in the same spot at the same time, this just didn't work. On reddit are some Ideas and I could talk all day long and bring in some ideas. But if you ask me you should rework 90% of the mechanics, maybe a bit to much

[Fractis Zero]

So the BJ-1X is a beast... so you slightly nerfed the weapons quirks. But then you gave it twice the structure AND ACC and DEC bonuses? That thing can now hill hump and not even be seen!

[Vashramire]

Fractis Zero, on 14 November 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

So the BJ-1X is a beast... so you slightly nerfed the weapons quirks. But then you gave it twice the structure AND ACC and DEC bonuses? That thing can now hill hump and not even be seen!

The ACC and DEC aren't that as high as you think. Remember that Kinetic Burst and Hard Brake got nerfed so no more 45% accel and 50% decel base. Decel is a nerf from live values but Accel is buffed. I wouldn't expect it to be any more extreme than it is now.

[Fractis Zero]

Vashramire, on 14 November 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

The ACC and DEC aren't that as high as you think. Remember that Kinetic Burst and Hard Brake got nerfed so no more 45% accel and 50% decel base. Decel is a nerf from live values but Accel is buffed. I wouldn't expect it to be any more extreme than it is now.

I can accept that, it's just the other BJs get less bonuses. So why make the already meta version of the BJ even more superior to its counter parts? The 1X should have gotten the least amount of love on this quirk pass.

[Shismar]

Not commenting on most changes because I lack the knowledge about the effects of current and planned values. The SRM or heat sink changes look rather meaningless to me. Won't hurt, won't do good.

BUT! The efficiencies nerf looks really ugly. Having to grind out three chassis is already a PITA and now the result becomes almost meaningless?

A good change would be the removal of the three chassis requirement for the elite skills and just make it required for the double base efficiency bonus. That way many players would forgo the double base skills because they do not want to level three chassis.

Many mechs are already not agile enough to be fun to play. Making that worse is not helpful.

[Pz_DC]

Ok, how i see it:

Lasers are history, LRMs too. Gauss - RIP long time ago. SRMs got buff and that's good, especially SRM2. LB-X still lack of damage on armored targets. In case of weapons - you are just swap beam-meta to ballistic-meta and LRM-rain to SRM-swarm. That's all.

Why u're nerfing gauss?! Why ecm is totally useless now? IS tech = clan-tech and *** the canons because "we are trying to make it balanced".... WTF?...

U're going right direction but PLZ pick other route...

P.S. Still got no idea why if my playtime on mech A is 100hours and on mech B is 10 hours they both got same quirks and efficiencies...

P.P.S. Burst-damage-loadouts still overwhelm more-damage-over-time-loadouts (I.e. 3xPPC are better then AC20+2ML etc). That's main problem for me.

-edited-
Two more things to change:
1) When I see 2xGauss+2xLL+4xML DWF in CW I gonna cry - no way to run in this mode and no way to outdamage THIS. Is it fine?.. (in case DWF VS ANY IS mech, and not only DWF - 30/40 alpha-lights makes my heavies sad).
2)Try to play on DRG-1N in CW with ping like 150 and you will see how badly hit reg, is broken..

Edited by MGA121285, 15 November 2015 - 05:47 AM.

[Chef Kerensky]

I'll be real - I'm legitimately impressed. At a cursory glance these changes look good. Like, very good. Like, big-step-in-the-right-direction-overall good.

I may have to take a look at the quirk list and give this a try.

[Summon3r]

Lol so essentially nothing will/has changed. Will continue on with world of warships.

How did it take 4 pts's to get to this.... btw ecm lol

[Mcgral18]

PFC Carsten, on 14 November 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

Hugginn will be a monster with the SRM adjustments... oh wait. It does not have any double-firing-rate quirks left. Too bad, money wasted for all those who wanted a deadly light.

You mean, it doesn't have TRIPLE RoF SRM4s anymore. It's just under double now, at 47% reduction, or 53% cooldown (up from 33%)

Jman5, on 14 November 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

That makes me sad. It was the one change I was most looking forward to.

With dynamic sensor range, I can't see them going back to "targetingfactor=0.25" because my Cute Fox with a 350 sensor range couldn't even get a Dorito until under 90M.

I think a 0.5 value would be nicer (half normal sensor range to mechs inside a Magic Jesus Field), but I'm not against removing the Magic Jesus Field entirely, setting "targetingfactor=1.0" as it was on the previous PTS iterations.

Edited by Mcgral18, 14 November 2015 - 01:18 PM.