402 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Blackhound, on 14 November 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

Drunk math here, but if all 15 of those DHS are losing capacity why are you only multiplying by 5?

Edit: I'll delete previous post so as not to alarm people.

Only PoorDubs were affected last time, this time they don't mention it.
Assuming that's the same, only the 5 PoorDubs are affected, losing you a whole 5*0.3 heat capacity, or 1.5 heat. That's without efficiencies (which were ganked hard on PTS3) which don't seem to be affected here (but could also be another typo/erroneous information).

30 is the base heat capacity either way, all heatsinks add to that.

[kka]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 14 November 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

I feel I need to put this in terms PGI will be compelled to listen:

YOU WILL LOSE MONEY

Axe the mech efficiency tree and you are basically taking away most of the incentive to grind 3 variants. Sure, the 10% speed increase is still there, but, why would I bother in the case of the faster mechs? I won't grind a chassis I don't like that much only for the speed buff. So, in that way, you have less people paying MC for extra variants, less people returning Cbills earned through grinding to buy extra variants, and less people actually playing those extra variants, which as you know translates in less opponents for the paying players. You know much more than me about the F2P model for sure, but this is a basic concept that nobody could deny.
Axing the efficiency tree is bad for you, bad for us. Please, do not do it.

MWO already has a steep learning curve for new players. Nerfing the skill tree means paving the way for them.

Money comes from a large player base. Thus, more money for PGI.

[Yozzman]

What about ghost heat?

[Cryzak]

I was planning to buy ARROW but not without machine gun quirks...only reason to buy it. RIP grid iron and many others, If i just know this day was coming i wouldnt buy any hero, or packages. Only few mechbays.

[Sigmar Sich]

I'm very sad you returning weapon quirks.

Paul Inouye, on 11 September 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

What I saw was an ever-growing disparity between a standard 'Mech chassis and the min/max end result of quirked 'Mechs. The level of power creep was growing with every pass of the quirk system, and certain 'Mechs started to perform far above their intended loadout capabilities...

...it became very apparent that the new Quirk system was taking balancing in a direction we did not want to go in the first place. While the overall structure of the Quirk system had the right frame of mind, the implementation and values were straying too far from a properly balanced playing field...

...This brings us to where we are today. Before bringing another large influx of players into the game through Steam, we need to take the opportunity now to reset and balance the 'Mechs in a manner that is best for the game in the long run.

I have to be honest with you; some of you will love this new system, others will hate it (especially those who might rely on 'meta' builds that push the limits of the current Quirk system)...

TL;DR:
* The current quirk system is not working as intended.

Yet you bringing weapon quirks back, and mostly unchanged.
You (PGI) constantly complain you don't have many players. If gameplay was good, you would have many players. I highly doubt new players will like current gameplay, with huge alphas, one-button min/max loadouts, and very short TTK.

This game already have to much wasted opportunities. Sad to see this rebalance becoming one of them.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 15 November 2015 - 01:19 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Cryzak, on 15 November 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

I was planning to buy ARROW but not without machine gun quirks...only reason to buy it. RIP grid iron and many others, If i just know this day was coming i wouldnt buy any hero, or packages. Only few mechbays.

Now, if Machine Guns weren't absolute Rubbish, this might not be an issue.

If they didn't have a 3M Cone of Fire, and perhaps if they had 1 DPS, they could be viable supplementary weapons.
As it stands, they just get you killed by not torso twisting, and you're better off packing 3 LPLs with more heatsinks.

[PraetorGix]

Remember that long video that Phil from NGNG posted after the first PTS, explaining wonders about that mythical matrix they had for taking into extreme and detailed consideration each and every mech and omnipod and hardpoint location so we would end with different quirks, much more variety in viable mechs and with a different way of playing the game? You could almost believe at that time that mist linxes locusts awsomes ferrets and vindicators were going to be cool to play...
Should I be surprised that now that video seems like complete BS?

[Oddinator]

What about the missing DHS Slots in the SCR Engine ?

[Sarlic]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 15 November 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

Remember that long video that Phil from NGNG posted after the first PTS, explaining wonders about that mythical matrix they had for taking into extreme and detailed consideration each and every mech and omnipod and hardpoint location so we would end with different quirks, much more variety in viable mechs and with a different way of playing the game? You could almost believe at that time that mist linxes locusts awsomes ferrets and vindicators were going to be cool to play...
Should I be surprised that now that video seems like complete BS?

Nobody should be suprised this is just another shallow quirk pass.

[Vlad Striker]

Very strange - they pay attention to Mech Efficiencies, but deny to see acceleration of light mech more then 10g!!!!
No men can withstand of such. Only military aircraft pilots and in little numbers.

[Dakkss]

Raise heat cap, introduce high heat penalties like inaccuracy, ammo explosions, slow movement and HUD scrambling. Lasers not so OP anymore.

Balance over.

[Thomas G Wolf]

InnerSphereNews, on 13 November 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

'Mech Efficiencies
• Kinetic Burst: 22.5% -> 7.5%
• Twist X: 10% -> 2.5%
• Hard Brake: 25% -> 7.5%
• Twist Speed: 20% -> 2.5%
• Arm Reflex: 15% -> 2.5%
• Anchor Turn: 10% -> 2.5%
• Speed Tweak: 10% -> 7.5%

Well done PGI with these changes there is no incentive for me to play the game anymore as doing the skill trees with those changes are a total waste of time, and that frankly was the only real reason to play and buy new Mechs as your CW is a Stillborn child. And so now you will lose another Whale that has spent alot on money on this game, hell I have not even bought my all time Fav Mech now the Rifleman because I am so disgusted with this absolutly stupid and senseless change, it was fun but now I have had enough, have not played a game since you made this change public a couple of weeks ago.

[Mcgral18]

Oddinator, on 15 November 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

What about the missing DHS Slots in the SCR Engine ?

Working as Intended™

It's a locked Omni engine, heatsink slots also locked.

[Kael Posavatz]

I can admire the courage it takes to admit that you are not ready to do something when you have hyped it and worked towards it for the better part of half a year. However, coming less than a month before the Steam release this rebalance is...not inspiring.

Instead of what was touted as major rebalance with a move away from weapon quirks we get...this.

Instead of the skill trees being revamped, they are instead reduced by as much as 87.5%

Information warfare which was supposed to be a cornerstone of the rebalance isn't happening at all.

Some of the more egregious actors in IS weapon quirks are being reigned in at long last (though the RVN-4X retains its incredible +30% laser range, -30% laser duration quirks) but the condensing of the majority of the weapon quirks into generic (Exp. Energy Range plus Med Pulse Range into a single Energy Range quirk), enhances the flexibility of the IS mechs further.

Meanwhile the listing of Clan Quirks is held off until the very day the test server goes live. Easy enough to point at a weekend, but at what point does explanation stop being an explanation and become an excuse?

The Clans are OP. However PGI had already taken steps to balance this. Longer beam-durations, taking away pinpoint ballistics (except gauss rifle), avoiding the 15 pinpoint ERPPC entirely by going to splash damage, longer cooldown cycles on missiles, streamed LRMs that give IS AMS more time to engage the missiles, higher heat the weapons produced, more severe caps on # of weapons to produce ghost heat, were all measures put in place to generally curb the Clan's range-damage advantage.

Further increasing the disparity in LRM cooldown rates, reducing laser max ranges, increased ammunition for IS LB-10X... These are all refinements of the existing balance. If we can't have a major overhaul of how things are balanced, these are a good way to go.

And then we get to the heatsinks and engine changes.

IS Single heatsinks will have a greater capacity than double heatsinks? Really? I mean...wow. Words fail.

And players have already been targeting Clan Mech side torsos. They have less armor than CT and so are easier to shoot off, and take a good number of weapons with it. Now, because PGI hasn't been able to implement actual engine criting, they have decided to hammer Clan players with a handicap for being Clan players. (And yes, I fully realize that if an IS pilot puts an XL and his side torso gets shot away he is dead, but he has a choice to run that engine, the Clan player does not). My point is, if PGI could figure out engine criting, the robustness of Clan engines (3 crits before destruction vs IS two crits) would be offset by their volume over IS standard engines).

[Weeny Machine]

Mcgral18, on 15 November 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

Working as Intended™

It's a locked Omni engine, heatsink slots also locked.

Geez...as someone who grew up with the tabletop I want to scream when I see that. The IS worst problem was not only that clan tech was superior but that omnis could be equipped and custom-tailored for each and every mission they were sent on.

In MWO IS can replace engines as easily as switching underwear. Whatever...

[Desintegrator]

Nice to hear that the pressing of the "R" key, before you can do full damage is gone...

[Bud Crue]

My 2 cents as a fairly recent player who plays because the game is MechWarrior and who invests real $ only because it is MechWarrior:

Well done PGI for the most part. Thank you for maintaining some of the quirks. With this many mechs in the game and more coming each month (seemingly) you had to do something to have at least some pretense of unique gameplay features in order to keep people buying the mechs. Without some sort of quirks I just didn't see an incentive to buy or even try many mechs of a given weight class. Well done in this attempt at maintaining variety of play and features.

To the quirk haters: I get that the really good players (many of whom appear see this game as just another FPS to dominate) think the quirks are the epitome of bad game play. Perhaps. But as a business decision in re the Steam release, if you want new $ invested I think providing variety of game play is critical. Therefore I think maintaining the quirks is a job well done.

On the other hand: PGI, I must agree with those pointing out the nerf skills tree is a real problem. I hope you have some replacement in the works. As it stands, the new "tree" removes in game leveling for all intent and purpose from the perspective of the casual player.

I've said it before: A perception of in game advancement and leveling is essential to the success of any game. Leveling is a key part of any casual game as it is the primary mechanism for getting the "I'll play just one more...gotta reach the next goal!" mentality invested in a new player. Without such a feature, you only have the pokemech aspect to "keep em coming back for more" and I fear that will not be enough to attract casual players and their money.

[DoctorDetroit]

Bud Crue, on 15 November 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

My 2 cents as a fairly recent player who plays because the game is MechWarrior and who invests real $ only because it is MechWarrior:

Well done PGI for the most part. Thank you for maintaining some of the quirks. With this many mechs in the game and more coming each month (seemingly) you had to do something to have at least some pretense of unique gameplay features in order to keep people buying the mechs. Without some sort of quirks I just didn't see an incentive to buy or even try many mechs of a given weight class. Well done in this attempt at maintaining variety of play and features.

To the quirk haters: I get that the really good players (many of whom appear see this game as just another FPS to dominate) think the quirks are the epitome of bad game play. Perhaps. But as a business decision in re the Steam release, if you want new $ invested I think providing variety of game play is critical. Therefore I think maintaining the quirks is a job well done.

On the other hand: PGI, I must agree with those pointing out the nerf skills tree is a real problem. I hope you have some replacement in the works. As it stands, the new "tree" removes in game leveling for all intent and purpose from the perspective of the casual player.

I've said it before: A perception of in game advancement and leveling is essential to the success of any game. Leveling is a key part of any casual game as it is the primary mechanism for getting the "I'll play just one more...gotta reach the next goal!" mentality invested in a new player. Without such a feature, you only have the pokemech aspect to "keep em coming back for more" and I fear that will not be enough to attract casual players and their money.

This x1000!

[Gentleman Reaper]

Really? I know lots of people were crying that the optimal range loss mechanic would ruin their laser meta but now that completely breaks the info warfare changes you were planning (I'm guessing that's why it was delayed) You could've set the range loss to something more manageable like 40-30%, but now with that gone everyone will just alpha their LLs as soon as they see someone like they've been always doing. Please PGI the whole re-balance was built around this mechanic, and now that you've listened to the whiners your whole re-balance will be nothing more than a quirk refresh and info warfare mechanics that won't stop you from being maimed by 5-6 LL meta builds across the map.

[Titinus]

PGI,

Please listen to your player base I am a member of a clan of 160 players and we are all in shock about the mech tree Skills changes. The unlocking of the skill tree has been the one consistent driving force for all mechwarriors to achieve. It is a equal bonus for all pilots since its implementation and one of the few consistent forces in gameplay. By reducing the level based qualifier you remove incentive for a player to put the time in each mech and get to truly unlock its potential. you can't believe how many new pilots come into the game spouting how a certain "mech Sucks". Our response is always the same is it mastered? Once a mech is mastered it comes into its own. They mostly keep at it and begin to love the mech as they unlock its true potential. I am afraid you are tampering with something that has become a real core feature of the game that no one has had a issue with. remember if it is not broke don't fix it. Mech efficiencies are not broken leave them alone.

Changing mech efficiencies adds nothing to game play it actually takes away from game play, hurts the player base and the ability of new players to want to excel at MechWarrior.

Can you name a successful business model that consistently removes features and benefits given to its clients that in turn grows from this effort. It would be like Walmart offering "new higher prices with even lower quality" and expecting to attract new clientele.