402 replies to this topic

[Eregion]

Pihoqahiak, on 27 November 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

I seriously doubt there are that many players in this game that feel mechs are too maneuverable. The game already plays horribly as far as mobility is concerned due to small terrain completely stopping your movement and jumping mechs getting caught on terrain (which also has the lovely bonus of stripping your legs when it happens). The good players in the game now are good because they have adapted well to the changes that have already been incorporated into the game as it is. That will not change, the top tier players now will be the top tier players after any changes and they will be even more dominant for the length of added time it will take the non-top tier players to learn and adapt as much as they are able to. What slowing mechs down and making them more sluggish accomplishes is making lights far more easy to kill, and matches taking even longer to get into the action, which will be a serious problem for keeping a large amount of Steam newbies interested in the game.

"Mobility" is not "agility". There are too many places on too many maps where a small rock blocks the way to Assaults, instead of "slowing them down" (as it should be a "rough terrain"). I said "agility", meaning that. Heavies turn too fast, torso-twist too fast. In general, move too fast. It's not a "I don't like how much they move" reasoning, here. It's that there's no motivations in taking a Medium over an Heavy, or Assault (exluding the Dire as an extreme of pure firepower and no mobility/agility).

And as long as there's no other objective in this game as to deal MOAR DAMAGE, lights and mediums have no reason to exist, other than by queue tonnages limitations, personal love for a chassis (I usually play in my Urbie), or OP quirks that put them on par of some heavies.

Lights will not suffer more by these "nerfs", not by much (you should try the PTS, really).

And I don't care about the "top-tier" players. Everybody should play "where" they like to play. If you want to improve, you should try to. If you want just to play the game as you "casually" can, then you have better things to do in your real life, and that's it. I'm not saying changes need to make the game easier or harder (I've never talked about "tiers" in the first place).

I'm saying that somebody doesn't like changes at all. And this people will find many reasons to explain the bad in the changes. And they could be right. But in this thread, lately, I haven't seen many explanations other than "I don't like it because we'll go slower". Or "I don't like it because now I don't have to buy other two variants of the same chassis".

And as for the "Steam crowd", I personally think that the more unique this game is, the more it has to gain. Want to play a fast shoter? There are tons on Steam, right now, better than this. You want a "slower but deadly game of attricion"? MWO.
And no more.

This will never make MWO a CoD crowd game (simply because today there aren't many who like "attricion games"), but in the future they could remember this as "that game where robots shoot at each other 'till they are scraps". The alternative is that they'll remember this as "that awful first-person shooter", if they'll remember it at all.

[Eregion]

Pihoqahiak, on 27 November 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

There are a couple of ways to change that because ghost heat, and lowering heat sink capacity (which is really the same effect) isn't changing game play other than making people wait a bit longer between alpha peeks.

Untill someday a smart young MechWarrior will kill all of the enemies, who where waiting longer for their alphas to "recharge", with his mixed ballistic build...

[Dagorlad13]

Tuann, on 27 November 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

mech efficiencies down ?
NO NO NO
what is the value of actually doing the mech tree ?
difference between mastery and locked is minimal

so again :

NO NO NO

in retrospective, i have spent too much cash on this constantly changing game allready.

Because people cry if they have to play a couple weeks to catch up with people who have mastered mechs.

[Pihoqahiak]

Eregion, on 27 November 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

And as for the "Steam crowd", I personally think that the more unique this game is, the more it has to gain. Want to play a fast shoter? There are tons on Steam, right now, better than this. You want a "slower but deadly game of attricion"? MWO.
And no more.

There is a very large difference between turning this game into a fast shooter, and just increasing the time to first engage and actually do anything in the game from being longer than it already is. The time NOT doing anything in this game is really a startling high percentage of the play time, between the very high wait times for matches and the increased map sizes that offer no real increased area of play just more area to walk through to get to where everyone will actually fight. People prefer to spend their time in a game doing things, not waiting to do things. The more waiting you put into game play, the less engaging and interesting it ends up being. Some developers have learned this lesson well, others... they struggle with that lesson.

Edited by Pihoqahiak, 28 November 2015 - 03:01 AM.

[Aiden Skye]

So wait...are clan Large lasers getting their range nerfed as well or not? Wasn't listed.

[Eregion]

Pihoqahiak, on 28 November 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

There is a very large difference between turning this game into a fast shooter, and just increasing the time to first engage and actually do anything in the game from being longer than it already is. The time NOT doing anything in this game is really a startling high percentage of the play time, between the very high wait times for matches and the increased map sizes that offer no real increased area of play just more area to walk through to get to where everyone will actually fight. People prefer to spend their time in a game doing things, not waiting to do things. The more waiting you put into game play, the less engaging and interesting it ends up being. Some developers have learned this lesson well, others... they struggle with that lesson.

Well, you are right.
But only because there's no tactical decision to make while you walk to the same spot, all the times...

[STEF_]

The very sad thing is that range is nerfed patch by patch.
And this happens because 90% players cannot AIM.
So, pgi, wanting to chase sub tier players approvals or ...because theirselves suck badly, nerfs laser range and gauss cooldown.

RIP Gauss, best weapon of the game. You were too good, so sh1t players hate you too much, and went to whine to the nerfhammer daddy.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 28 November 2015 - 11:36 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Quaamik, on 26 November 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

Not cherry picking. The dissipitation values for IS doubles were not listed.

I wasn't looking at it as "per slot", but as "per ton". While per slot it looks better, it still seems extreme since clan weapons already generate more heat. Allowing them to overwhelm the cooling quicker. While they are lighter, allowing more tonnage for heat sinks, there are also often fewer hard points requiring you to go to the larger weapons to get the damage numbers in the viable range.


I absolutely agree with the idea of reducing the capacity to limit alphas. I personally think that most stock mechs should redline with a single alpha. Any more and they become unuseable. Less and it's too easy to go to laser vomit. I'd love to see the Time to Kill adjusted, by reduced alphas, better armor values, more structured way of taking internal damage (allowing you to tailor the build so weapons are lost last) and the weapon balancing, to the point where very few games end with all mechs on one side down in less than the full 15 minutes. That would affect CW as well, allowing truly good players to ride most of the match in a single mech.

The logic behind the high heat on Clan lasers is this: you want to bring more damage per ton, you pay more in heat. If you run your Clan 'Mech with an alpha closer to what an average IS 'Mech can bring (~30-40), you will be generating roughly the same heat as the IS 'Mech but with a significant advantage in range and damage per number of resources used (slots and tons and hard-points).

Unfortunately, the average IS alpha is not considered competitive, and there's a drive to ever larger numbers, resulting in Clan 'Mechs running scalding and IS 'Mechs being given quirks to help them also reach those big damage numbers because they would actually melt down faster than a Clan 'Mech without them.

[Valar13]

Kira Onime, on 13 November 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

Who let Paul throw darts at the quirks board again?




PVP game. Balance changes are gona happen.
You using the "i paying money" as a shield for nerfs/buiffs makes you look like a complete tool.

FTFY

Edited by Valar13, 28 November 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[Zolaz]

Good Job PGI!!! I like it when people who dont play the game make decisions and tell me how great those decisions are. It has worked so well these past 3+ years.

[Dagorlad13]

Stefka Kerensky, on 28 November 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

The very sad thing is that range is nerfed patch by patch.
And this happens because 90% players cannot AIM.
So, pgi, wanting to chase sub tier players approvals or ...because theirselves suck badly, nerfs laser range and gauss recharge.

RIP Gauss, best weapon of the game. You were too good, so sh1t players hate you too much, and went to whine to the nerfhammer daddy.

Gauss was nerfed well before launch when they gave it a chargeup / cooldown.

[FupDup]

IronClaws, on 28 November 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Gauss was nerfed well before launch when they gave it a chargeup / cooldown.

On the other hand, the patch that added Gauss charge also gave a huge velocity buff (1200 up to 2000) and increased the item's health points somewhat. I think there might have even been a third mini-buff on that patch day but I forgot because it's been so long.

[Y E O N N E]

Wasn't Gauss nerfed from 720 m to 660 m at some point?

[Matthew Ace]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 November 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Wasn't Gauss nerfed from 720 m to 660 m at some point?

Gauss had always been 660m/1980m.

[Dagorlad13]

FupDup, on 28 November 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

On the other hand, the patch that added Gauss charge also gave a huge velocity buff (1200 up to 2000) and increased the item's health points somewhat. I think there might have even been a third mini-buff on that patch day but I forgot because it's been so long.

On my IS account, my Gauss Cataphract was pretty damned deadly before the nerf, when you could brawl with Gauss.

[QContinuum]

Honestly it's quite dissapointing to see what PGI is doing to mech and the story. Clan mechs are better that is why they cost so much more. So you're going to make the mechs the same you better start doing price adjustments and maybe since you've killed the clan mechs now. do i get money back? If i knew this was coming never would have bothered to buy clan mechs. Just would have whinned along with the rest of the innner sphere pilots till they nerfed the clan mechs and junked out inner sphere mechs. Sure would have been cheaper and saved myself some cash. I can say this much i definately won't be purchasing any clan mechs with real cash going forward. Chances are my days of spending real money are over that is the only thing that this company seems to respect. You should have just given the inner sphere more tonnage in CW and broke up the pug drops to be either inner sphere, clan or both if you wanted the challenge.

So dissapointed.....

[Y E O N N E]

QContinuum, on 29 November 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Honestly it's quite dissapointing to see what PGI is doing to mech and the story. Clan mechs are better that is why they cost so much more. So you're going to make the mechs the same you better start doing price adjustments and maybe since you've killed the clan mechs now. do i get money back? If i knew this was coming never would have bothered to buy clan mechs. Just would have whinned along with the rest of the innner sphere pilots till they nerfed the clan mechs and junked out inner sphere mechs. Sure would have been cheaper and saved myself some cash. I can say this much i definately won't be purchasing any clan mechs with real cash going forward. Chances are my days of spending real money are over that is the only thing that this company seems to respect. You should have just given the inner sphere more tonnage in CW and broke up the pug drops to be either inner sphere, clan or both if you wanted the challenge.

So dissapointed.....

If you spend real money for something expecting it to have an advantage in this game, you were operating under the wrong buying principle. You are paying for the experience to use that 'Mech, whatever form it takes, and not for an edge over players who didn't buy it. For 'Mechs that come out on C-bills later, you are paying to use it early. That's it.

Furthermore, the C-bill cost of a Clan 'Mech is similar to that of an Inner Sphere 'Mech once you stuff an XL, Endo, and DHS onto it. Actually, you get a bargain with the Clan 'Mech. Buying a 75 ton Orion 1K, equipping it with Endo-Steel, DHS, and an XL 360 (which isn't even as good as a 375 or a Clan XL in general) places you a mere ~120,000 C-bills shy of a Timberwolf S, and we haven't even put any guns on it. And the guns we do put on it? They are worse than the guns on the Clan 'Mech...which is why there are quirks at all. The quirks don't even make the IS 'Mech better, they just give it one niche where it's serviceable.

And why am I talking about C-bill prices? Because MC and real money prices are related to C-bill prices.

[Nightmare1]

InnerSphereNews, on 13 November 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

'Mech Efficiencies
• Kinetic Burst: 22.5% -> 7.5%
• Twist X: 10% -> 2.5%
• Hard Brake: 25% -> 7.5%
• Twist Speed: 20% -> 2.5%
• Arm Reflex: 15% -> 2.5%
• Anchor Turn: 10% -> 2.5%
• Speed Tweak: 10% -> 7.5%

This is, in my opinion, a stupid change. Nerfing agility does nothing for TTK or overall Mech performance. It just makes everything more fragile. It also gets rid of the BattleTech feel to things. I remember reading in the books how pilots would run and leap with their Mechs; they were very physical. It's bad enough that we don't have Death from Above and Knockdowns, but now we also are losing our agility.

What's the point of Eliting a Mech if the bonuses are so paltry? I mean, look at Kinetic Burst. From 22.5% down to 7.5%? That's about a 67% decrease to your agility factor. That's not an incremental change; that's a system shock.

Can we address the real problems with this game instead of trying to create new ones? Stunting agility and limiting a Mech's ability to shield do not increase TTK. They have the opposite effect. They decrease it.

[Nightmare1]

YUyahoo, on 27 November 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

So despite our feedback this is going through "as is" on Tuesday. And its stated loud and clear in the Dec roadmap that the reason for the skilltree nerfs are to lessen the impact of the performance gap between elited/mastered mechs and unbasiced mechs...somehow I just can't help but feel disappointed over this because the skilltree needs to be reworked not just have all the percentages reduced. Please Russ/PGI either rework the skilltree or leave it as is until it can be properly reworked. This all feels so rushed so that the steam launch can happen now. The roadmap also suggests that CW/faction phase 3 won't be ready until 2016...honestly if you want to make the best impression on new customers and provide them with the best, most complete product that is when the steam launch should happen, after the rebalance (and skilltree rework rather than just percent nerf) has been implemented and refined, after phase 3 is completed not now with the game in this state

Yeah, this was rushed through and is fairly stupid. Trying to reduce the difference between Elited and unElited Mechs defeats the purpose of leveling them in the first place. It also is a slap in the face to everyone who has actually invested the time to become good with a particular Mech. It's mind-numbing and basically says, "We don't value our dedicated player base that we have now as much as we value the potential people who don't play this game but whom we hope will, and who have no personal attachment to the BT/MWO franchise!"

All this is being done as a money grab for the Steamies. It's pretty much Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Cash! I really wish that more sensible changes were being made.

Edited by Nightmare1, 29 November 2015 - 03:07 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

YUyahoo, on 27 November 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

So despite our feedback

you mean "depsite my"

Dont forget to throw in the "everyone who thinks like me" feedback