224 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

Some of those players, even if they formed a unit they would 12-48 themselves anyways.

The same advice still applies and goes ignored.

• Optimize your dropdeck
  
• Try to reach 960 damage consistently (this is how much damage the average CW player does) If you are doing 500 damage or less all the time you need to change things up. Better dropdecks and playing in a group are low hanging fruit. 1 player can make a huge difference
  
• Pick a faction that is well populated and will get you direct access to fights (Jade, Wolf, Steiner, FRR)
  
• Find the faction hub and tag along with a unit that needs fillers. If you are a loyalist in a dead faction with an inactive faction hub then you need a new faction. Teamspeak > in game VOIP
  
• Join a unit

Edited by Kin3ticX, 16 November 2015 - 10:55 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

soooo
12mans are ruining the game for PUGs?

Can you explain to me how those players are doing that?
They log in
They join their team
They play the game within the rules as everyone else does

Maybe you can explain how that ruins the game for PUGs?
Better yet, maybe you can suggest what those players (not PGI since you said the players are "ruining" the game) are supposed to do?

Maybe you have a suggestion for how those 12man groups are supposed to stop "ruining" the game for PUGs?

How do 12 mans ruin the CW game for pugs ... well it is obvious with the unbalanced match. As for how 12mans can prevent this, well they can't. It is something PGI has to do with introducing a match making system into CW but they wont until they get a bigger population for a match maker system to be worthy. And even then they (as in PGI) might not still address this issue because it will slow down getting a match.

Edited by clownwarlord, 16 November 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[Sandpit]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

How do 12 mans ruin the CW game for pugs ... well it is obvious with the unbalanced match. As for how 12mans can prevent this, well they can't. It is something PGI has to do with introducing a match making system into CW but they wont until they get a bigger population for a match maker system to be worthy. And even then they (as in PGI) might not still address this issue because it will slow down getting a match.

No, I'm not trolling. I'm tired of hearing the same "12 man boogeyman" arguments that have existed EVEN THROUGHOUT THE PERIOD WHERE NO TEAMS were allowed.

If you want to PUG, go PUG. You have an entire section of game and game modes dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to that player. The problem has been solved. The problem isn't 12mans. The problem is with certain players thinking that the entire game should only cater to them.

Oh and PS, I don't fail, I simply ask questions and point out fallacies.
(Such as blaming premades and 12mans for losses)

[Sickening Spying Scheming Eunuch]

Community warfare is ment to be a type of game requiring coordination and plan, for it lasts longer than a normal game mode and you need to pick not 1 mech, but 4 allowing you to be efficient in every situation. It's obvious 12 man drops are going to have advantage and this is a good thing.

If you see you are losing while playing as a part of unorganized random group of people, this should motivate you to join on of merc or loyalists units, it's as simple as that.

However I'm aware that PGI isn't really encouraging people to socialize with others and to drop in groups when playing CW, this thing needs to be changed, especially before the steam release. If new players see the current situation of CW they are not going to be pleased with it and probably just stick with normal game mode only. Which is a great waste of lots and lots of content put into Community Warfare mode.

I'm telling that since a year and I'm still being ignored, people should be lured to join the unit of their choice by a SUBSTANTIAL AND DECENT rewards for their teamwork and struggles. Playing along with your unit mates should be more profitable than playing alone. Add that into the game and noone is going to get hurt.

[Clownwarlord]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

No, I'm not trolling. I'm tired of hearing the same "12 man boogeyman" arguments that have existed EVEN THROUGHOUT THE PERIOD WHERE NO TEAMS were allowed.

If you want to PUG, go PUG. You have an entire section of game and game modes dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to that player. The problem has been solved. The problem isn't 12mans. The problem is with certain players thinking that the entire game should only cater to them.

Oh and PS, I don't fail, I simply ask questions and point out fallacies.
(Such as blaming premades and 12mans for losses)

So you prefer to have an unbalanced game, and unbalanced match making system?

At no point do I believe PGI has to do anything to fix this issue, but it is an issue and I feel it should be addressed as well as the many others who have posted in similar fashion. If you are tired of hearing about the issue then stop reading the forums which is the place for people to bring up their issues with the game.

[Sandpit]

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[color=#959595]However I'm aware that PGI isn't really encouraging people to socialize with others and to drop in groups when playing CW, this thing needs to be changed,[/color]

Now this is something most agree upon and have complained about since day 1. The comm tools and social tools (lobbies, chat, etc.) are what would really and truly help alleviate some of these issues.

[Sandpit]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

So you prefer to have an unbalanced game, and unbalanced match making system?

Yes because that's exactly what I said and/or implied. smh

Quote

[color=#959595]At no point do I believe PGI has to do anything to fix this issue, but it is an issue and I feel it should be addressed [/color]

It has been addressed. PGI implemented completely separate queues for those that want a more casual and solo playstyle. Ask and ye shall receive. The problem was solved years ago. Literally.

Quote

[color=#959595] If you are tired of hearing about the issue then stop reading the forums which is the place for people to bring up their issues with the game. [/color]

Just FYI (since you want to try and get all hostile and sarcastic)
Repeating the same QQ over and over again while completely ignoring the things that were done (Such as EXCLUSIVELY SOLO QUEUES) is not "bringing up issues with the game", it's whining about something that you already have the tools to prevent from happening in the first place.
period.
You can keep the urban legend of the 12man boogeyman alive today just like it has been for years, that doesn't mean you're accurate or correct in your statements.

[Clownwarlord]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

Now this is something most agree upon and have complained about since day 1. The comm tools and social tools (lobbies, chat, etc.) are what would really and truly help alleviate some of these issues.

I can agree with that if PGi did a better job with communication tools for in game use it would hopefully alleviate the issue of needing a match maker system in CW, in my opinion.

Sadly though PGI has allowed Voip to be turned off, allowed people to continually abuse Voip, and have yet to put in a simple one or two click message system.

example of a message system I would suggest WOT (world of tanks) message wheel. You hold down ctrl and swipe release your selected message and it would put it in team chat instead of you having to click y and then continue to type out every character to fulfill your message to the team.

[Sandpit]

Quote

[color=#959595]allowed people to continually abuse Voip[/color]

See, it's statements like this that I don't get. There's no "abuse" or "cheating" or "exploiting" or anything else that implies players are doing anything even remotely "illegal" in terms of playing the game.

As for everything else, myself and many many many MANY others have been complaining and suggesting comm tools since CB. It's beyond me how a company can design, create, and implement a team based game and completely ignore comm tools for those teams.
This is one of those subjects that leads many to believe PGI is either inept or just plain doesn't care about this particular issue.

[Tombstoner]

Jun Watarase, on 15 November 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

>you are not allowed to enjoy an event unless you spend time organizing a group with 11 other highly skilled players

This sounds like a great idea! I'm sure it will appeal to the majority of players out there. What could possibly go wrong?

your not the target audience

[Sandpit]

Tombstoner, on 16 November 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

your not the target audience

as opposed to the countless other events that haven't had those requirements. So if we flip the situation it becomes
"I'm a team player! You mean to tell me I can't participate in this event unless I drop solo?"

Same argument from the other side. There have been a LOT more events, game modes, adjustments, balances, etc. focused primarily on solo and "casual" players. This happens every single time PGI runs something for the other players in the game.

[Clownwarlord]

Sandpit, on 16 November 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

Just FYI (since you want to try and get all hostile and sarcastic)
Repeating the same QQ over and over again while completely ignoring the things that were done (Such as EXCLUSIVELY SOLO QUEUES) is not "bringing up issues with the game", it's whining about something that you already have the tools to prevent from happening in the first place.
period.
You can keep the urban legend of the 12man boogeyman alive today just like it has been for years, that doesn't mean you're accurate or correct in your statements.

You continue with your snide remarks but at no point have you pointed out that 12 man pug stomps are good for the game.

As for solo cue and group cue is a separate portion of the game, but before then they had it work with groups in the same cue as solo players. Why not introduce that into CW? Simple because it would take longer to get a match; hence why steam release and cw phase 3 coming out they might address the issue of a match maker for CW (if the cw population increases) after that which is all I suggest.

Furthermore your continued reference to solo cue and group cue is a separate portion of the game. I am focusing on CW and CW only in the issue of unbalanced matches. These threads continue to come back up with the same issue of unbalanced match making for CW every time there is a CW event.

Edited by clownwarlord, 16 November 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Aresye]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

I suggest if you come across a 12 mans stick it to them and make them play the full 30 minutes because if they are going to ruin the game for pugs...

Ima gonna stop you right there.

It's literally impossible for 12mans to ruin CW for pugs because CW is not meant for pugs!

Bear in mind when I say "pug" I'm referring to those solo players that refuse to work as a team, take terrible loadouts and/or trial mechs, and basically just do their own thing completely devoid of any purpose other than to suit their own goals, whether it be CBill rewards, a score for a CW event, or simply the desire to play a different type of game mode.

We always get topics like these whenever CW events go up, because it brings out every selfish solo player from the solo queue who think they can play the same way as they do in the solo queue and feel they deserve to earn each and every reward in the event for it.

Ya know, I don't feel bad at all about stomping those types of players. There's only a small number of solo players in CW whom I RESPECT, and those are the ones that enjoy playing CW and work together to put up a good fight, regardless of the adversity they face. They take a full dropdeck of owned mechs, maximize their tonnage, use VOIP, and work together. They may not be able to win against a 12man of MS's best, but they're the ones that do win against large groups of CWI, SWOL, PL, and other large, albeit not very competitive groups. They play CW for the challenge, can joke with the teams that are stomping them, and generally don't take CW too seriously.

The other solo players though? The ones that only come out for these events and do nothing but whine in-game and on the forums about team imbalances? Those players aren't ruining CW for pugs, they're ruining CW for EVERYBODY. They do nothing but bring their own team of solo players down, thus ruining the game for those solo players who are actually WILLING to work as a team, and they ruin the game for groups like MS by giving them an incredibly easy win that's not challenging in the slightest.

FFS, it's a team-based game! The mechanics of the game are NOT hard to master, and it takes no more than the smallest amount of dedication and effort to be a contributing member of that team.

All of you "true to the heart" solo players that still manage to suck after 2 years of playing this game because you steadfastly refuse to work as a team, or run at least a "somewhat viable" mech build, are truly the cancer of this game. You ruin the game for other solo players who want to win as a team. You ruin the game for groups that have to carry you in the group queue, and you ruin the game for both sides in CW.

Go play Fallout 4 or something until PGI comes out with PvE, where you can be as selfish and feel as special as you want to be. Just stay the hell away from all the solo, group, and CW players in MWO that actually believe in teamwork, and stop ruining the game for each and every single one of them.

[Clownwarlord]

If CW was not meant for pugs then why are pugs allowed to play in CW?

[Sandpit]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

You continue with your snide remarks but at no point have you pointed out that 12 man pug stomps are good for the game.

At no point did I point out they were good because that's never what I said or even remotely implied.

Quote

[color=#959595]As for solo cue and group cue is a separate portion of the game, but before then they had it work with groups in the same cue as solo players.[/color]

They did?
Oh wait, they did
3 years ago
for a couple of months before they stopped supporting dropping in teams at all.

Quote

[color=#959595]Why not introduce that into CW? Simple because it would take longer to get a match[/color]

There's a difference between "take longer" and "take so long on a regular and consistent basis that it would completely ruin the MM and game experience.

Quote

[color=#959595]Furthermore your continued reference to solo cue and group cue is a separate portion of the game. I am focusing on CW and CW only[/color]

Which is exactly why it should be pointed that "solos and casuals get pug stomped and it ruins the game" only refers to those players who want to play in CW.
You know CW right?
It's the ONLY game mode out of several that is completely OPTIONAL that allows teams to drop together like that. That's what it is, that's what it has been, that's what it was intended to be, that's what it was announced to be, that's what everyone understood it to be.

So now you want to say "CW isn't "fun" for solos (which what you actually mean to say is that YOU don't find it fun as a solo player because I personally know several solo players that wish they could drop int he CW queue as a solo player and there are tons of team players that would love them to be able to as well so the whole "us vs. them" mentality that some on the forums have tried to foster since day one in regards to "evil premades" and such is nonsense but I digress), but completely disregard, ignore, etc. that CW was never supposed to be intended for casual solo players. period

There is MUCH more of this game catered to players in the name of "casual". CW is the ONE AND ONLY section of the game that caters a bit to the "hardcore" crowd.

You realize this is no different than jumping into a game like say black ops, then dropping in the hardcore mode and complaining that it's too hard, then jumping on that game's forums and telling the devs that they need to make hardcore easier and more "fun" for their "casual" playstyle.

You would get run off the forums on a rail and ridiculed and told to play in the easier game mode instead of trying to get the rest of the game to cater to you specifically. There's absolutely no difference in those scenarios and players complaining that CW is "too hard" and it should change in order to cater to them are just as ridiculous.

[PurpleNinja]

You do realize that CW was made for 12 men groups. Right?
We have PUGs playing CW only because there's an event going on.

[Mystere]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

If CW was not meant for pugs then why are pugs allowed to play in CW?

Did you not read or understand the part that said:

Aresye Kerensky, on 16 November 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Bear in mind when I say "pug" I'm referring to those solo players that refuse to work as a team, take terrible loadouts and/or trial mechs, and basically just do their own thing completely devoid of any purpose other than to suit their own goals, whether it be CBill rewards, a score for a CW event, or simply the desire to play a different type of game mode.

[Sandpit]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

If CW was not meant for pugs then why are pugs allowed to play in CW?

Notice how you're trying to make this into something it's not?

There are plenty of PUGs that play and do well in CW. There are also plenty of PUGs and solo players that WANT to play in CW under that mechanic.

You are arguing for all PUGs. That right there is silly. You represent yourself. That's it. You don't speak for "PUG Nation" because I'm a member of said nation and disagree completely with your ideas on this matter.

Notice how I said (I know you quoted someone else but I'm using this to point out that you're looking at it from the wrong way) casual and solo versus teams and hardcore. Nowhere in there did I say PUGs. I've got news for you, dedicated 12mans make up a very miniscule portion of the population. We're talking like less than 5% of the thousands that play.

So you really expect me to believe that 5% of the population (or less) "ruin" the entirety of CW for PUGs and casual players?
The reality of the situation (based on factual data from the devs as opposed to "because I know and I've played 10 games this weekend so I have data too) is that the majority of time you aren't playing against a dedicated 12man in the first place.

[Clownwarlord]

I would like to point out the original CW promise not your miss-construed idea. At no point does Brian Ekman say what you are saying.

Edited by clownwarlord, 16 November 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Sandpit]

clownwarlord, on 16 November 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

I would like to point out the original CW promise not your miss-construed idea. At not point does Brian Ekman say what you are saying.

I'd like to point out that the video you just posted is from CB, 3 years ago? (possibly 2) and was changed within months of that video being played at the launch party.

If you're going to drag up "evidence" I'd suggest you not use promotional powerpoint presentations made at the "launch" party several years ago.

If we ARE going to go that route to make our cases, then I'd like to point to the countless founders who handed MWO money based on the original pillars.

Hell why don't we just use the video that smith & tinker made about MW5 instead? That was used as promotional material as well.

Point being that the video you just posted is completely and totally irrelevant to what we're discussing and at no time after that powerpoint presentation at the launch party did PGI, Eck, Russ, Paul, Niko, or anyone else make any statements to make you or anyone else think that CW was going to be what you're implying. If you feel duped because of that video, I can sympathize with that but it in no way means you should have expected that video to be CW.

If you were in the community at that point and saw that video you have no excuse for thinking things hadn't changed well in advance of what CW was actually going to be.

If you weren't here for that video and you just happened to see it recently, I'd suggest being more thorough in your research methods. Am I happy with how CW turned out?
Eh, not really. I'm not blaming PUGs, solos, premies, 12mans, etc. for it either though. Those issues are completely separate and have no bearing on this whatsoever.

Players aren't losing (in CW or otherwise) due to MM imbalances. Players are losing because they get beat by better players most of the time. It's really that simple.

Edited by Sandpit, 16 November 2015 - 12:18 PM.