224 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Jun Watarase, on 17 November 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Yea but those arent real competitive players, just fakers trying to look good. But why is PGI catering CW to these people? They are obviously not the main player base.

During the event i did end up winning several pug vs 12 man matches....like two or three. But 90% of the time was pointless spawncamping.

Please define "real competitive players" and "fakers trying to look good?"

This is kinda what I mean by the whole "us vs. them" mentality here sometimes. I think the vast majority of players in ANY game are "competitive". Nobody enjoys losing or losing often. Everyone wants to win some, THAT'S competitive.

[Ghogiel]

Triordinant, on 17 November 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

It would still be totally crap even if they tripled the rewards, just slightly less smelly. Besides, I oppose using rewards as bait to lure in new players who are short on cbills to be seal clubbed.

Who is clubbing them exactly, the one random guy out of 12 that can actually do more than 2k dam? The entire game mode is filled with solos, bads, or trial mechs. Most games are rag tag pugs. It's rare enough to even see a 4man. Rarer still to see a quality one.

[Triordinant]

Ghogiel, on 17 November 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Who is clubbing them exactly, the one random guy out of 12 that can actually do more than 2k dam? The entire game mode is filled with solos, bads, or trial mechs. Most games are rag tag pugs. It's rare enough to even see a 4man. Rarer still to see a quality one.

No way I'm taking your word for that. Only PGI knows how often PUGs get roflstomped by organized premades in CW.

[DarthHias]

Two tricks to succesfully Pug in CW:

If possible attack.
Be good.

On a more serious note: You should know what to do like don´t trade Long Range laser fire against an organized team etc.
If you are in a Pug team tell your fellow pugs what´s good and what not. If you have a group of 6+ from one team ask them to share their plans, push with them and you will be good.
Sometimes you need to carry.

Example Pug match:




Note how on my team 6 guys failed to get 1k dmg but got compensated by the rest. Also one high achiever on the enemy team didn´t manage to carry the subpar teams.

Edited by DarthHias, 17 November 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[Mystere]

Mister Blastman, on 17 November 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Second highest honor? What do you have to do to get the first? Kill an entire battalion or town of insurgents?

Die in battle.

On a more serious note, that's a good question. The last Ghurka to receive the Victoria Cross was in 1965.

[Mystere]

Triordinant, on 17 November 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

No way I'm taking your word for that. Only PGI knows how often PUGs get roflstomped by organized premades in CW.

I'm more interested in finding out how many 12-mans were stomped on by PUGs.

[Mister Blastman]

Mystere, on 17 November 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Die in battle.

On a more serious note, that's a good question. The last Ghurka to receive the Victoria Cross was in 1965.

It does seem like that, doesn't it? We've given out a few Congressional Medal of Honors to some living soldiers in the last decade but what that Ghurka did... that sort of tenacity and bravery... he should be promoted all the way up into special forces or whatever they have there. He's a machine.

[Jun Watarase]

Sjorpha, on 16 November 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

Well, I have it a bit both ways there.

On the one hand I actually think the OP represents a real problem, the extreme skill and coordination discrepancy between teams in CW. Remember that it's not just a problem from a "carebear" perspective, stomping pugs is boring gameplay for us in the 12 mans too.

On the other hand I don't have much sympathy for people who complain about being stomped while at the same time deliberately handicapping themselves and refusing to use the solutions available.

I'll say it again: You do NOT need to be in a unit to get organized, it's just a stupid excuse. Just drop by a faction TS hub and jump into a group. Easy peasy, nothing special required and even saves time as groups get CW matches much quicker than solos.

If your reason is that you don't like coordinating at all, then CW simply isn't for you. It will never have the equivalent of solo queue, get over it.

So if CW was changed so that organized teams would only play against organized teams, would you like it?

The way i see it, this is a win-win situation. The competitive players get to play against challenging opponents and the majority stop boycotting CW.

I don't understand why some people are so against the idea because literally the only people who would stand to lose out would be the people who WANT to keep getting matched against opponents that they can easily beat with no effort.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Ghogiel, on 17 November 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Not mutually exclusive. One of the reasons why CW is crap is because it's not rewarding.

One of the reasons among a laundry list of them.

[Jun Watarase]

bLeeat, on 16 November 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

The one thing people don't address is how these top tier clans only play clan's in CW. reason being because its very easy to cheese with clan mechs. and the only reason a lot of these players are "good" is because of cheese builds.Inner sphere are the only players who have a real problem in CW,you get nothing but random teams with 0 communication vs coordinated team drops. IS gets all the random players and CLAN players are all the people in clans who think they good but only play cheese builds.

That's not true, i've seen some very good IS units in action. Unfortunately, all of them seem to run meta builds and most resort to refusing to destroy omega so that they can spawn camp for kills. They will literally refuse to shoot omega after destroying all the generators so that they can spawn camp.

Almost all the queue numbers on the clan side (defending at least) are purely solo queues with the occasional 2 man group queing. In the last week (including the CW event) i have literally seen a 4 man clanner group and a 6 man clanner group ONCE. In total. Over a week.

In a week i have seen clanners attack ONCE...just ONCE....although CGB only has 4 planets to choose from so thats probably part of the reason.

If you don't believe me, you can switch to any of the clans and take a look at what the faction map looks like. In the NA cease fire zone, i always see clanners lose several planets because it's almost entirely 12 mans attacking vs solos defending. And i have yet to see any organized teams trying to use faction chat....

[RussianWolf]

Amazed people are still trying.

They throw up one of these events every so often and solos go over and then complain about the tactics/meta used.

Learn the lesson. CW wasn't meant for you.

how does it feel to be the bait dog?

[Sandpit]

Quote

[color=#959595]The way i see it, this is a win-win situation. The competitive players get to play against challenging opponents and the majority stop boycotting CW.[/color]

The reasons it's a bad idea have been listed since the first time it was brought up years ago. There are several and not a single one of them has anything to do with anyone wanting to "club baby seals"

[L3mming2]

Mister Blastman, on 17 November 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Second highest honor? What do you have to do to get the first? Kill an entire battalion or town of insurgents?

the first is the victoria cross, and its indead nearly inposible to get, 1 of the requirements is that the heroisme is not morivated by selfpresrvation... so basicly killing a 1000 enemy soldiers to save your own ass will never get you a victoria cross...

Mister Blastman, on 17 November 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Second highest honor? What do you have to do to get the first? Kill an entire battalion or town of insurgents?

the first is the victoria cross, and its indead nearly inposible to get, 1 of the requirements is that the heroisme is not morivated by selfpresrvation... so basicly killing a 1000 enemy soldiers to save your own ass will never get you a victoria cross...

[Mister Blastman]

L3mming2, on 17 November 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

the first is the victoria cross, and its indead nearly inposible to get, 1 of the requirements is that the heroisme is not morivated by selfpresrvation... so basicly killing a 1000 enemy soldiers to save your own ass will never get you a victoria cross...

Ah well that kind of makes sense the way you explain it.

[Wildstreak]

Mystere, on 16 November 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Scream in terror? I think this guy has other ideas:

That reminds me of what I told someone once in another forum.

We live in an age where most civilians know a lot about Special Forces but not Average Joes. You can find a lot of films, TV shows and books on Spec Ops, Seals, Delta Force and similar. Many video games put you in the 'role' of the Spec Ops guy. Been like this since about the Korean/Vietnam Wars time until today.

Compare that to WWII and earlier, most knowledge about the military by civilians was more about Average Joe than Spec Ops. The Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Transport, Signal and others, those were the more common stories.

Result is most people today think they know a lot about military subjects when they don't Special Forces makes up a small percentage of military troops. In social status terms, they are the Wealthy like Celebrities and other media figures minus the crazy **** done on TV and in tabloid gossip rags. Judging the military by the standard of a small few is like judging the civilians by the standards of Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Charlie Sheen and Miley Cyrus. Exceptions are exceptions, not the rule.

I still to this day recall what 2 of my 3 platoon drill sergeants told me. One was from 82nd Airborne, the other from 101st Air Assault, both Spec Ops units. They said Infantry was the only real job in the Army and the standard of it. NOT Spec Ops Infantry, ALL Infantry even non-Spec Ops. You want to judge and have an opinion of the USA Army, you look at the Infantry, what they do and how well they are treated, not the Spec Ops with the smaller number of elite troops who always get treated better.

That Gurkha, he's Spec Ops, the exception, not the rule. Sure, he did exceptional stuff but what he did is not a standard a lot of people can achieve.

Thinking you can come into this game and be the one man army Spec Ops guy actually runs counter to what was intended and what skills people have and can achieve. I came in and still operate seeing most as Average Joes with few being Spec Ops, guess that is one reason it is harder for this game to let me down like others have been (though there have and still are let downs). I expect few to be the MWO Gurkha.

Mystere, on 16 November 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

CW was intended primarily for organized groups, not exclusively for them.

Problem is CW looks like a partly strategic game from appearance but once you start playing, you see a good number of needed strategic elements are missing compared to other strategic games that simulate combat better. Those missing elements are part of what kill CW.

[Weeny Machine]

Whatever...I do not really care anymore. I just belt up and do my event or play if I feel the itch for CW again. However, one pattern comes to mind when this age old discussion comes up again and again: Premade players tell the Pugers to either join a unit or stay out. The next step is that soon we will see again threads of "CW is dead [insert whine]". I suppose that is the beauty of online gaming

[Aresye]

Jun Watarase, on 17 November 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

So if CW was changed so that organized teams would only play against organized teams, would you like it?

It's not a matter of liking or disliking the idea.

Solo players make up the majority of the player base, and the overall percentage of players drops the larger the group gets. If you match organized teams only with organized teams in CW, then most of the planet's progress is being decided by solo players, who for the most part probably don't give a care in the world about capturing the planet.

In other words, large units would end up having the LEAST influence on whether or not a planet gets captured, which would be completely backwards.

Personally I feel the only logical solutions would be to:
1. Only allow those with unit tags to participate in CW.
2. Not allow any trial mechs in CW.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 17 November 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 November 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

It's not a matter of liking or disliking the idea.

Solo players make up the majority of the player base, and the overall percentage of players drops the larger the group gets. If you match organized teams only with organized teams in CW, then most of the planet's progress is being decided by solo players, who for the most part probably don't give a care in the world about capturing the planet.

In other words, large units would end up having the LEAST influence on whether or not a planet gets captured, which would be completely backwards.

Personally I feel the only logical solutions would be to:
1. Only allow those with unit tags to participate in CW.
2. Not allow any trial mechs in CW.

I'm almost convinced there needs to be minimal grind requirement for new players to get into CW... I wouldn't be happy about it, but then again, they are being fed to a grinder as it were.

Even if it is simple mastery for all 4 weight classes (basically, one mech from each weight class must be mastered/elited) or some sort of k-d/w-l ratio threshold (when you begin, your ratio would suck anyways maybe something like a .75 for both/either after 100 matches min would be sufficient)... this would have to happen.

Then again, it's not going to change the fact that players that refuse to work together are often the reason for a loss. Teamwork is OP, but refusing to work together tends to be more of a gamebreaker.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 November 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Wildstreak, on 17 November 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

-operators-

Well, from a pseudo-grunt (Field Artillery), no one knows **** about the grunt life because the grunt life isn't cool. It isn't highspeed. It isn't elite. We don't get good kit. We have varying levels of morale. And we have varying levels of individual performance.

We do actually do some cool ****, but it's not the cool **** you see in the movies or the video games. Operators are almost always outnumbered and persevere despite the odds, like you see in the movies or video games where half a dozen to a dozen operators fight off a 300 man strong force. Some of the cool **** we've done this year is shoot our artillery pieces completely primitive, where everything is done by hand. No calculators, no BFT, no AFATADS; just slide rules, charts and darts, compasses, aiming circles, and calometers (WW2/Korea era equipment).

What do grunts do that's cool? Well, early in the War in Iraq my state sent a Rifle battalion and they had a single Platoon clear out a section of the city where they bagged'n'tagged 156 insurgents in door to door operations. That's pretty cool, except they totally #rekt the insurgents, most of whom were former Republican Guard, and only had three casualties, no KIA. Doesn't make for a good story. It was just another day, another dollar for them.

That Gurkha makes a great story, as do various other SEAL, SAS, and USASF "overcome all odds" stories.

[Ghogiel]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 November 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

It's not a matter of liking or disliking the idea.

Solo players make up the majority of the player base, and the overall percentage of players drops the larger the group gets. If you match organized teams only with organized teams in CW, then most of the planet's progress is being decided by solo players, who for the most part probably don't give a care in the world about capturing the planet.

In other words, large units would end up having the LEAST influence on whether or not a planet gets captured, which would be completely backwards.

Personally I feel the only logical solutions would be to:
1. Only allow those with unit tags to participate in CW.
2. Not allow any trial mechs in CW.

If premades only faced premades we could queue dodge premades and drop solo.

In that event I would hope people use faction chat to make sure no premades are dropping on X planet so as to keep that 12 man of MS only ever getting ghost drops and never getting an actually match. Meanwhile farming pugs even more without premades to protect them. Even if a premade take a planet they would have been bored to tears and will not have earned many cbills doing so.

Of course then all the MS groups would just sync as solo players to circumvent that tactic, we'd be back to square one, where one side is going to be more organised than the other.