186 replies to this topic

[PeeWrinkle]

It seems to me that these packs are geared toward a new player. But I can see people who have played for a while picking some up as well.

For the veteran players they know exactly what they are buying and there will be no guess work on whether they want the contents of the pack or not. For them getting a bit of MC, some premium time, and two mechs they want or may already be playing that have CBill bonuses could be enough to trigger a purchase. Do I see many doing that? Probably not, but some could and lets face it this cost PGI nothing whether they are purchased or not.

More likely the new players will jump on these packs early into the steam launch. I can see that being a good and a bad thing for those players. Premium time is always nice, a bit of MC to get some extra mech bays is nice as well. Having two mechs that generate more CBills is also nice. But the bad comes in when they start to get into the game and research what it takes level a chassis. I bet at that point they will just wish they bought a mastery pack. Another problem for the new player is they are not really sure how any of the mechs will actually perform. There is the potential they will buy a pack that they end up never using because it just does not fit how they like to play. Heck I am a veteran player and jump on smurphy's all the time, build out a mech that I think is something I have to play. So I buy it with CBills and it just stinks. I sell it and go on to something else. But with real money that experience would hurt a bit.

Then again this is why they had the community pick new Champion mech builds, so these builds would actually be ones that would perform decently well for a majority of players. So if new player does get them they should be getting a mech that functions well on the battlefield.

I will add that whether it is mastery pack, a performance pack, or entire series releases such as wave 3 or resistance 2 the new user will not really know what they are buying.

My advice to any new player is to have patience and don't buy anything for a while. Just play some trial mechs, build up a CBill base, maybe you will use the Chassis XP form those trial mechs if you run into one you like. The at that point decide on whether you want to invest money or not. My guess is only true BT fans will want to start throwing money around, the casual player will probably find that all they really need is to spend some real money on some extra mech bays and maybe some premium time.

I don't think these are a bad idea, people may want them, but new players have to be warned that they are buying something that will not allow them to master a chassis unless they spend more real money or in game CBills.

I do think PGI would be better served by making stater packages specifically geared for first time players. Similar to the mastery packs. Or maybe just renaming those master packs. But they would have to add in ones for the Clans as well.

Just some rambling thoughts on my part.

[Bud Crue]

I hope people buy em...lot of em. I assume PGI needs the $. I just think they would get more purchases and less irritation down the road from the presumed Steam market if they:

1) made clear the status of the skills tree, and what is required within the context of these packs. Something like:
"1 popular mech from IS and CLAN to start you on your skills advancement path! Additional variants available in the in-game store! Buy 3 variants of each mech to maximize your skills!"

2) made clear the nature of IS vs CLAN within the game. Something like:
"These premium mechs can be used in all your "quickplay" drops! Decide whose side you're on and then join your friends to fight in Community Warfare where you must choose to join the invading CLANS with your (fill in the blank: Arctic Cheeta, etc.) or defend the Inner Sphere with your (fill in the blank: Raven, etc.). Be sure to check out the Factions and Community Warfare MWO forums for more information!"

3) made a line or two about why the "extras" have value. Something like:

"MC is available for purchase and can be earned through special game events. You can use the MC included with this pack to buy other mechs in our in game store. Make sure to check out the other variants of the (fill in the blank of mechs in pack) and start mastering your mechs today!"

"The included C-bills will let you buy alternate weapon load out, improved armor and structure, double heat sinks and may other features including improvement modules that you can equip to make your mech truly unique! Check out the in game mech lab for all the possible options."

4) you get the idea.

This sort of thing, I think, would go a long way to not only encouraging purchase by new players but also making sure your buyers are educated enough to know what they are getting into...which means less rage quitting down the road and less refund requests for PGI (and less bad Steam reviews?) A good sales pitch might even get some of us older players to buy too (doubtful as discussed above, but still).

Lastly (despite what I said above about maybe getting current players to buy), I'd consider making these packs or at least some aspect of them, exclusively available to people who sign up for the game through Steam. Give the new players a feeling of exclusivity and being special. Maybe something along the lines of extra c-bills or MC if purchased through Steam (however that might work).

Remember folks, its in our best interest to get new blood in the game!

[Desintegrator]

Yeah, the pre-Chistmas time is coming !

Time to spend some money.

[Asmosis]

GreyNovember, on 19 November 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Will the S variants be available seperately, ever?

I only really want the raven at this point. It's a little too late to entice me for cbill bonuses now. I can live without the fancy addons.

It doesn't matter too much for the clan mechs since you can just buy the Omni pods. I've got "S" pods on a couple of my DWF's to let them get over obstacles they would otherwise have to walk around, and the hardpoints are nice.

IS is a different story though.

PeeWrinkle, on 20 November 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

More likely the new players will jump on these packs early into the steam launch. I can see that being a good and a bad thing for those players. Premium time is always nice, a bit of MC to get some extra mech bays is nice as well. Having two mechs that generate more CBills is also nice. But the bad comes in when they start to get into the game and research what it takes level a chassis. I bet at that point they will just wish they bought a mastery pack. Another problem for the new player is they are not really sure how any of the mechs will actually perform. There is the potential they will buy a pack that they end up never using because it just does not fit how they like to play. Heck I am a veteran player and jump on smurphy's all the time, build out a mech that I think is something I have to play. So I buy it with CBills and it just stinks. I sell it and go on to something else. But with real money that experience would hurt a bit.

I guess it will coincide nicely with the heavy nerf to chassis skill levels so they don't matter as much as they used to.

Edited by Asmosis, 20 November 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

I'm surprised there isn't more angst over the fact that PGI is enshrining both these particular mechs and the laser meta in general.

They're basically acknowledging that most of the rest of the mechs and loadouts in their game are junk.

Like do we really need any MORE people running around in sniper ravens and pulse laser cheetahs, stormcrows, thunderbolts and timber wolves?

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 20 November 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[Ezekeel666]

Do not want.

This is what I want and what I would pay for: http://mwomercs.com/...d-to-any-mech/.

[Sigmar Sich]

Overpriced, imo.
Especially in wait for steam christmas sale.
I believe a lot of mc\c-bills and some cockpit items would be far better starter bundle.

Just as founders packs was - mc and free field to go.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 20 November 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[Steve Pryde]

Damn, a second hero timber wolf with phranken skin unlocked for all timbys? Argh I get poor. X_x

[Axeface]

30% cbill Raven 3L. Tempting.

Not tempting enough though as I'm poor. I'de just like to say, PGI... that I think you should concentrate more of your effort on cosmetic microtransactions AND 'luxury' items than mech packs - like cbill boosts, premium time and decals. Maybe cbill boost purchase for any mech? People like to customise things, make their mechs 'their own'.
Like, if you look at SWTOR they are selling boxes that have cosmetic things in them - mounts and 'adaptable' gear (MWO's version of camos), I think they are doing well with that.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 20 November 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

I'm surprised there isn't more angst over the fact that PGI is enshrining both these particular mechs and the laser meta in general.

They're basically acknowledging that most of the rest of the mechs and loadouts in their game are junk.

Like do we really need any MORE people running around in sniper ravens and pulse laser cheetahs, stormcrows, thunderbolts and timber wolves?

.

Isnt the PTS build addressing these issues?

Edited by Axeface, 20 November 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[Arkhangel]

Axeface, on 20 November 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

30% cbill Raven 3L. Tempting.

Not tempting enough though as I'm poor. I'de just like to say, PGI... that I think you should concentrate more of your effort on cosmetic microtransactions AND 'luxury' items than mech packs - like cbill boosts, premium time and decals. Maybe cbill boost purchase for any mech? People like to customise things, make their mechs 'their own'.
Like, if you look at SWTOR they are selling boxes that have cosmetic things in them - mounts and 'adaptable' gear (MWO's version of camos), I think they are doing well with that.




Isnt the PTS build addressing these issues?

yes, yes it is. and that rebalance is hitting a week previous to the Steam launch.

[Sickening Spying Scheming Eunuch]

Those packages would be really nice for new players, letting them to have some good mechs to play at the begining and earn money faster and farm what they really want to have in their garrage, however the package is overpriced.

Usually I'm not against it, MWO has a higher average age of a playerbase = most of people playing MWO can spend those 40$-60$ once per a few months without any effort, however since MWO is going to be released via steam, lots of new players are still going to be school-goers, therefore less of them are going to use the package. I think that since MWO is going to get a huge wave of fresh blood from steam, prices should be lowered to make those more profitable for PGI. Microtransactions have always worked at places where the playerbase is huge. More people are willing to spend a few dollars here and there, than to spend the amount of money worth another game, just to get a starter pack for MWO.

Huge packages of mechs are governed by different rules, because those give you 9-12 mechs earlier, with mechbays, color and patterns, so in many situations it is better to just make a few clicks and buy it instead of spending hours and hours of farming to get it all. Those are going to be bought by loyal fans or people who have already played this game for some time and they love it.

I disagree with your buisness policy PGI, since the steam release will require another approach to it.

Edited by KruczekIIV, 20 November 2015 - 06:52 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Lorian Sunrider, on 20 November 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

No it doesn't. Because I'm measuring by actual in game value as opposed to an imaginary dollar figure based off of a hero mech.

I appreciate how you've broken it down, but I vehemently disagree overall. Just because you are going off of MC value, which to be frank this game has moved away from MC for the most part. Sure you can buy things with it, but PGI has made it clear this isn't their preferred way of doing sales. I used to buy MC instead of packs, but the value wasn't even remotely close. Even when I was buying MC in $100 packs, it still made more sense to go for the packages.

Even if you don't take preorder bonuses I still feel the $20 Marauder package is BETTER VALUE for a new player than the current packages, especially when you compare prices.

As mentioned in my original post- sentimental value and personal value does play a big role.

For eg do you picture 3 standard mechs that are heavier (maybe your fave mech?) which have not a single bonus and are all stock better than 2 fully upgraded mechs with premium bonuses and such.

To a degree- the Performance pack is better, it is everything good about a trial mech but without the negatives as well. Many new people make the mistake of running a mech 100% stock or do not want to switch to endo, dhs, or xl engines... I think it's better to see a twin ER large laser Raven with ECM, DHS, Endo, xl, etc... than to see a stock raven with a few random lasers, srm's, single heatsinks, and able to be out run by a quarter of all heavies in game.

Of course- here's a different topic. What will the new player do? When I first started I played the earlier BT games but clearly know this isn't the same. I watched a lot of gameplay, tutorials, etc.. I KNEW that buying the smallest standard engine for my build and keep buying bigger and bigger/ expensive engines is a bad idea as in the long run you bought 5 useless engines and spent 5 times more c-bills or more to get the engine you really wanted. I also knew DHS was nearly always manditory and so on and on and on... What some new people do however is even when watching some tutorials or playing the game tutorial still do not know how to build a mech or how to play. They play their 100% stock mechs and get an illusion of what is a good or bad mech- for eg 100% stock direwolf is one of the hardest things to pull of in a game while a meta can be considered one of the easiest. Likewise a stock firestarter with all those flamers and Standard heatsinks will suffer without DHS and even than it takes high skill to use flamers, Meanwhile a SPL DHS xl Endo firestarter can be considered a 1 button click adventure easy mode.

We can debate rather or not the c-bill bonus is important for a new person or the fact that having 1 of the same weight class of both tech base is important or having an already battle ready build is important to analyse. But all people are different.



Now to the math- I used the MC value becuase this is the base value of the game. If you really want I can give you the hypothetical C-bill value of each mech as well as ignore the hero formula for mc and give you the c-bill formula for it.
But would it really make a difference? all I am doing is simply re-writing all the math to another number. If you want me to compare the packages. I can tell you automatically anything that is medium+ is better value because the only way to get say your direwolf invasion without the other packages is a la carte. Which only gives you the 3 mechs at 55 dollars. No colours, skins, premium ,etc. For 1 mech with a bonus, and 2 standards. Vs 2 mechs with a bonus.
Or getting a timberwolf a la carte also costs 55 dollars- which now compared to the heavy performance 50 dollar pack, is now better value overal if we try to convert packs into binary. Stormcrow? still 55 dollars a la carte vs 40 dollars. etc...
If you want me to try to compare packages with tiers with ones that do not (ie performance) it's hard.

Also the problem with the clan vs is pack values...
It's 30 dollars to get 3 ACH's, but 20 dollars to get 3 Wolfhounds. which is 2/3rds of the value of the ACH. (let's ignore the fact the meta loves ACH and Wolfhound, this isn't part of the math, even if it was an osiris or what ever it's still cheaper)
When we go to the higher packs- we get more value. As you can see with my marauder math, the ratio of how good the 'collectors' pack smashes that of the original.
When we look at other tiers we start to see more and more premium mechs,


Overall- comparing packages with others in relation to each other ignoring mc or c-bill value is hard as most of this is personal opinion.

Yes, spend 30 dollars for clans you get 3 total mechs while for performance you get 30 (for light tier/ first tier). But the performance are both premium which for some is the massive difference. while also the bonuses are quite nice for anyone who hasn't played 3 years and got 25 billion c-bills and several million exp so they do not care if they got prem or not.

Another note: I tried to dodge the clan vs is debate earlier in pricing, or vaguely discribing it.

But let's look at it this way... the performance pack contains a clan mech- which for their packages is 30 dollars per tier and not 20.

ACH pack contains 1 ACH prime, and 2 standards. for the same price as 2 premiums, colours, skins, c-bills, mc, etc... Your mc is also enough to buy a standard raven right off the bat. (so 2 prem + 1 standard) and the c-bills to buy another raven.
So the performance pack already has 3 ravens, and 1 ach. 2 of thoes mechs being premium. Or if you spent a reduced ammount of mc and play a few games in your premium, that can be 3 ach, 1 raven instead.

With 30% bonus c-bills and premium time getting the standard variants are much more easier than other packages.

Again- reffering back to the method of compairing. I did mention my way was one of the few ways, I could have done it arthimatically, Logarithmatically. Or simply look at it as black and white (which is a bad way to look at it as it ignores a lot of variables).

MC is still a strong presence in the game. It is the only way to get hero mechs, the majority of cockpit items, can buy standard variants, champion variants, colours, etc... Everything packs got- MC can do as well. Besides a specific variant being a premium mech- which since you are mentioning the 20 dollar marauder pack a lot is not the case here. MC can not buy 1 thing though- which is the 8th tier warhorn for clan wave 1. https://soundcloud.c...r/gattling-horn
Gattling horn... This is the only thing that's relatively significantly differnet you can not get with MC. But you can get every other warnhorn and does not impact gameplay. So again this is rather void topic.
The reason why some people do not get MC and only buy packs is becuase of the relative ease in some cases, as well as the fact you can gift with real money but not with MC.
Also mech bays can only be bought iwth mc directly.... sure- mech packs can give it to you but what if you want an atlas? buying a marauder pack and selling the 3 mechs for the mech bays isn't an effecient method.

We could make suggestions to PGI to make MC 'more' worth while, such as allowing MC to buy gifts for other people ie heroes.
And as above lightly reduce the costs of items requiring MC.









Reminder; I really do appreciate the feedback- as I would love it if people disagree with me or question my methods instead of blindly nod. Not saying that people who do agree with me are idiots- but I would like people to disagree with me, that way I can see my faults/ problems, or elaberate ,or see the other persons point which I may or may not agree with- which than the return occures.

[Gumon Choji]

Lorian Sunrider


I made the post to show how this pack is less then MC if you play this mech already. Also the complaining on this was too long. This game sells digital commodities. They have no value. They are digital items by nature not real. You do not need them nor do they make you better at MWO. But if you choose not to buy do not be a dumb-ass and tell others not to. They pay for you. Be a smart ass like me and promote funding a game you love.I may not buy these packs unless I really loved one of these mechs but I see the value to paying customers. I also like the idea of making some premium mechs people already like to play. There are no balance issues, no under powering just added c bills. Also these sets I do not think are for new players but for players who already love a chassis and want to give away money. Still a good deal compared to straight MC if you like what you get.

[Anubis Ka]

So for the price of two Assault mechs I could also buy Fallout 4, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.....
Gotta catch'em all, PokeMech!

[Volt Corsair]

Can I just appreciate the fact the the forums are having both an intelligent and peaceful debate on a front page post? I want to appreciate that.

[Kshat]

Anubis Ka, on 20 November 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

So for the price of two Assault mechs I could also buy Fallout 4, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.....
Gotta catch'em all, PokeMech!

If you would actually do the math you could easily see that your two assault mechs will cost you 40$, INCLUDING extra camo, extra colors, extra cbills, extra prem time and the fac that they are "almost heroes". 20$ of the assault package are delivered in the form of MC, which you are free to spend. Yes, the assault package will cost you 60$.
But that doesn't mean that two assault mechs will cost you 60$.

[Nightshade24]

Anubis Ka, on 20 November 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

So for the price of two Assault mechs I could also buy Fallout 4, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.....
Gotta catch'em all, PokeMech!

Side effect of multiplayer games that are free to play, due to longer retension, you end up spending mroe money than any game that did cost money of the shelf...
I could have bought a lego superstar destroyer by now if MW never came into my life... But than again I would have probably spent it all on Battletech anyway as I wasn't spending money anyway

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

This is a really coolass bundle, I am very tempted to get one for me and one for a friend as a gift.

[Ace Selin]

Bud Crue, on 20 November 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

I hope people buy em...lot of em. I assume PGI needs the $. I just think they would get more purchases and less irritation down the road from the presumed Steam market if they:

1) made clear the status of the skills tree, and what is required within the context of these packs. Something like:
"1 popular mech from IS and CLAN to start you on your skills advancement path! Additional variants available in the in-game store! Buy 3 variants of each mech to maximize your skills!"

2) made clear the nature of IS vs CLAN within the game. Something like:
"These premium mechs can be used in all your "quickplay" drops! Decide whose side you're on and then join your friends to fight in Community Warfare where you must choose to join the invading CLANS with your (fill in the blank: Arctic Cheeta, etc.) or defend the Inner Sphere with your (fill in the blank: Raven, etc.). Be sure to check out the Factions and Community Warfare MWO forums for more information!"

3) made a line or two about why the "extras" have value. Something like:

"MC is available for purchase and can be earned through special game events. You can use the MC included with this pack to buy other mechs in our in game store. Make sure to check out the other variants of the (fill in the blank of mechs in pack) and start mastering your mechs today!"

"The included C-bills will let you buy alternate weapon load out, improved armor and structure, double heat sinks and may other features including improvement modules that you can equip to make your mech truly unique! Check out the in game mech lab for all the possible options."

4) you get the idea.

This sort of thing, I think, would go a long way to not only encouraging purchase by new players but also making sure your buyers are educated enough to know what they are getting into...which means less rage quitting down the road and less refund requests for PGI (and less bad Steam reviews?) A good sales pitch might even get some of us older players to buy too (doubtful as discussed above, but still).

Lastly (despite what I said above about maybe getting current players to buy), I'd consider making these packs or at least some aspect of them, exclusively available to people who sign up for the game through Steam. Give the new players a feeling of exclusivity and being special. Maybe something along the lines of extra c-bills or MC if purchased through Steam (however that might work).

Remember folks, its in our best interest to get new blood in the game!

I like these suggestions

[zolop]

Malleus011, on 19 November 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

It's a good idea, but has some issues regarding new players:

Packs do not include three variants required to master the chassis. (another fine reason to remove the '3 to master' rule)
50% of any pack cannot be used in CW.
Packs have no warning about either potential issue.

Also, as an IS-only player, I'm unlikely to purchase one of these packs because I don't need or want Clantech. Doubtless there are Clan only pilots with the opposite issue.

What stopping me from buying the assault packs, is the cost; same amount of money can Buy Fallout 4. There is is another issue with it, showing the outdated 3 varient rule . Still don't see any point in keeping it, as they can just increase the skills points needed to master a single mech multiplied by 3. People will spend their money where they want, but for the average person wants a good value for their money, that has far more interests than just MWO.
The $20 heavy/assault mech packs (maurader, warhammer, etc) are a good deal for me, as they give me 3 configured mechs that are at least all heavies. Wish they would do the Blood Asp Clan mech $20 mech package. Now if they only got rid of the 3 varient rule and I was able to mix 3 mechs for $20 (one of each weight class, A/H/M, L/H/M, etc) would be an ever better deal.


For reference to buy he KC and DW assault mechs separately they would cost 10000 MC ($100 USD), so this still isn't a great deal for me, as MWO is still not a complete game. For a complete game I am referencing fallout 4, GTA 5, Tomb Raider, F2P Warframe, F2P WoW, F2P Vindictus etc. I don't consider the mech colors, cokcpit items and patterns increasing the "fun" value for me, so the MC and other stuff that does not effect PvE/ PvP gameplay, does not increase the packages value. I use the mech to interact with the gameplay features (PvP, PvE, Mechlab), so for myself I am judging the value of it with only the mechs. I also think the colors are overpriced too, but thats for another discussion.

Edited by zolop, 21 November 2015 - 06:50 AM.