192 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

oldradagast, on 09 December 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Yep. They are idiots. Nothing but endless attempts to claim that anyone who disagrees is " a bad player" or that somehow joining a team and thus getting the "honor" to seal-club others makes it all OK.

Not one of them can even offer a single reason to allow full-on teams to play against PUG's and casuals. It's a stupid, unbalanced, and grossly dull game mode. If this were a professional sporting event with such idiotic and laughable "match-making," it wouldn't last a season before being laughed out of existence. Instead, we get saddled with self-professed "elite" players who think that seal-clubbing is the same as skill in a nearly dead game mode that PGI doesn't dare fix because it might piss off the egotists who spend thousands of dollars trying to buy another win over the course of years.

Whatever... enjoy your dead game mode - you people earned it.

prime example of teh type of player I've been talking about
(thanks for the example material btw, saved me having to look some up)

These types of players offer nothing constructive and can't even begin to explain what, precisely, about the MM system is "unfair".
There very anecdotal "evidence" equates to "cuz me and my friends said so", and expect anyone with common sense to take them seriously
it's usually met with the above or the ever classic
"I've already given tons of constructive feedback and it was ignored"
or
"PGI doesn't listen so why bother?"

Those are two of my personal favorites

It doesn't take long within a community this small to identify the ones that actually want to help improve the game and give legitimate feedback and those that just want to throw hissy fits, jump on the latest bandwagon because (insert whatever mech, build, mm system, etc. here, it varies by the week) beat them and they're MUCH better players than that, and those who just want to be "famous" within the community and on the forums and such.

My advice is to ignore the insignificant ones who just make noise (or tease them to get them riled up), report the vicious and truly toxic ones, and engage those in the community that want to come up with ideas to help MWO.
<o

[Gorgo7]

Lyoto Machida, on 09 December 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Well, it's kind of the same thing with gun homicides in the U.S. Homicides via firearms (losses in CW) are down from their peak in the 1980s but mass shootings (large stomps) keep getting reported on...don't always believe the hype.

The loudest voices aren't always correct...



http://www.pewresear...-rate-edges-up/

REALLY?
Own a firearm?
Politic somewhere else.

[Sandpit]

oldradagast, on 09 December 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

- The simple act of being able to communicate does NOT replace such practice. We get no shortage of whining from seal-clubbing fans about how "PUG's have VoIP, so now things are even." Based on that laughable "logic," giving a bunch of random football fans blue-tooth headsets would somehow make them competitive with a pro team.

first
let's not confuse star exceptional athletes who spend a lifetime training and honing their bodies and skills to the average guy sitting behind a computer ok? See what I mean by sensationalizing? lol

It's more akin to walking down to the local basketball court and then whining and bitching that you're "forced" to play pick up games against other guys that play together more regularly. That's a fair example and analogy I think.
Victim "You might be a PUG, but you play together twice a week!"
Normal People "Hey guys, you're good! (insert friendly trash talk)" and good times are had by all.

I hope that hopes you tell the difference in the examples you provided

I'll set the record straight
Been here since CB
Been here since the whole "premade boogeyman" started.

First it was, they have TS, it's cheating!
Then it was, they can group up and talk about which mechs they're taking!
Then it was, well we want our own separate queue!
Then it was, well new players are getting clubbed
Then it was, well they have CW so it too should cater exclusively to us!

That's an EXACT layout of how this has gone. Plain and simple.

Every single solo player in this game, without fail, has been handed the exact tools, modes, etc. they have requested and that were "unfair" for premades. They have been given every single advantage.
Even in the group queues it's catered more to small groups and individuals. Try fielding an assault mech in a group of 8+

You speak on things that you either haven't experienced personally, are ignorant of, intentionally misrepresenting, or conveniently leaving out a LOT of context and other facts out.

I'm assuming that it's a combination of not spending a lot of time playing in groups and simply not meaning to leave out the context assuming it's well-known.

Regardless, everything I have said is completely true.

I am a PUG
I am a solo player
I am a premade player
I am a 12man player

CW is set up the way it should be in terms of groups. It's not "fair" because it's a campaign that's designed to represent war. YOU may not find that fun, but there's plenty who do.

Not everything in this game and every single portion of it is going to cater exclusively to you or your idea of fun. Nobody on the "cw side" is asking for that. The only ones expecting, asking, demanding, and otherwise acting like some pretentious children in some cases are on that "woe as me I'm a solo player and CW is hard" crowd.

THOSE are the ones playing the victim card.

People who complain and don't like it and give constructive feedback about it are not. They at least present ideas on how to help improve the game for them. The second they expect it, demand it, and otherwise pretend to portray the "average" or "majority", we have issues.

As I stated above, there's not a single solitary player in this game that can claim they play the game in a manner that I don't also play it in with the exception of private matches.
I drop solo, pug, and 12man in CW and in pub drops. If they represent "solo" players, then so do I.

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

Community Warfare has been out for awhile now and I think its kind of gone beyond statements like "the victim card and you". I'd say that most MWO players know exactly what CW is all about and have had the personal experience to see it for themselves. For the most part my reply would be very negative, though the game play in the recent competition was much more balanced.

However, as a solo player, (for which I am for the most part) the defining characteristics of CW (as they stand), ensures that I maintain a very limited footprint within this mode of play. Personally, I tend to play it only to gather the level 2 mech bays or MC on offer during competitions. Sometimes I'll occasionally drop with a group on TS, but more often than not, I just go solo. Outside these occasions, CW is a "no go" area as it all seems underdeveloped and pointless anyway, especially with regard to Battletech lore. Nor can I see this being fixed anytime soon, if ever.

With the Battletech lore on hand, the developers could quite easily have made something much better, but chose not to. They've "shot their bolt" and missed the opportunity. Unfortunately, I just don't think this mob will ever get their collective heads around designing a decent war game or simulation. Only the same tired formulas seen elsewhere. Whether this limits my overall long-term involvement in MWO is another mater and I guess I'm marking time with this program. Is probably about time for me to head back into flight sims or something else on the market.

My advice is to weigh up whether CW participation is worth your time. For myself, I tend to target the so called "low hanging fruit" and sit back and enjoy the whining responses from the usual forum troll. No point in doing more than that. Apart from this, drop as part of a group if time allows and don't take MWO CW too seriously. The game whilst enjoyable, is not sufficiently developed or designed to warrant serious consideration.

[Sandpit]

Draughluin, on 09 December 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

However, as a solo player, (for which I am for the most part) the defining characteristics of CW (as they stand), ensures that I maintain a very limited footprint within this mode of play.

This right here is the true imbalance and problem with CW. Too many smaller units and solo players feel like they "don't matter" because they're simply too small to have any meaningful impact on the outcome of the map.

http://mwomercs.com/...ross-the-board/

read through that and give us your feedback on what you think as a solo player and if it would improve CW for you.

[Wildstreak]

BaconCouch, on 09 December 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

PUGS can beat premades.
They need someone coordinating their movements in VOIP, and they have to listen, but it can be done.
I led a PUG group to victory over a Steiner 11 man team, and we won 48-40, it was a tough fight, and I had to pump out over 3200 damage to do it, but it is POSSIBLE. Its just an uphill battle to beat a team that is on comms, more bound to listen, and has trained together.

Learn your mechs, learn your maps, and play most to your strengths.
Besides, the overall result of it all at the end of the day was...close.

True, I even have screenshots of times when CW PUGing my PUG both lost and beat teams. I also noticed a few other details never mentioned.

Sandpit, on 09 December 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

This right here is the true imbalance and problem with CW.

Not completely, there are a few others.

[Ufnal]

PFC Carsten, on 09 December 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

You're completely right. But why would that be? How many new players wouls bother to post here instead of just quit playing what is not fun to them?

Well, I saw one in this thread. And I myself am a new player who didn't find cw seal clubbing or victimizing at all by the magic of communicating with one's team and using team speak to form ad hoc groups.

I am just wondering how big is the real problem and are you not arguing for the sake of a population that doesn't really exist, or at least is much smaller. Because unless you have some data on cw dropouts, it's entirely possible that newbies just never try cwand that's why there is such a small number of players there. (why would they never try? Maybe because they get scared off by discussions such as these?)

Edit: Also some people asked in what other game do pugs play against premades. Does dota count? In non-ranked matchmaking you can encounter a four-man premade +1 versus five single players (not sure about five-man teams).

Edited by Ufnal, 10 December 2015 - 12:49 AM.

[Sandpit]

Wildstreak, on 09 December 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

Not completely, there are a few others.

Not really. If PGI was a bit more proactive with the map and controlling attack avenues it would solve the vast majority of issues. Obviously no single system will "fix" EVERY problem, but a good system mitigates and reduces those issues so they are the outliers and not the norms and averages.

[Famous]

Sandpit, on 10 December 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

Not really. If PGI was a bit more proactive with the map and controlling attack avenues it would solve the vast majority of issues. Obviously no single system will "fix" EVERY problem, but a good system mitigates and reduces those issues so they are the outliers and not the norms and averages.

Didn't Russ post something about limiting which planets are attacked/defended between the cease fires? I swear that I remember that being one of the ways to improve wait times along with something about a 4v4 Scouting mode for planets that would pay dividends in 12v12 fights for control.

Actually I think Long Toms were one of the bonuses you could get and the new trailer video has a Long Tom impact (at least that's what I hope the mushroom cloud comes from)

[Sandpit]

Famous, on 10 December 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

Didn't Russ post something about limiting which planets are attacked/defended between the cease fires? I swear that I remember that being one of the ways to improve wait times along with something about a 4v4 Scouting mode for planets that would pay dividends in 12v12 fights for control.

Actually I think Long Toms were one of the bonuses you could get and the new trailer video has a Long Tom impact (at least that's what I hope the mushroom cloud comes from)

This is just a bit more "fluffy" in terms of the information being dispersed using "in character" type newsfeeds and such

[Ihasa]

Ufnal, on 10 December 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

Edit: Also some people asked in what other game do pugs play against premades. Does dota count? In non-ranked matchmaking you can encounter a four-man premade +1 versus five single players (not sure about five-man teams).

Star Trek Online. 5 v 5 pvp arenas in space. I think it was 8 v 8 on the ground? In either case the crying was the same, the relatively constant whining minority, plus a cacophony of kirk-wannabees pretending to defeat the entire universe by themselves that couldn't get along with another human being to save their real lives. All loner wolves, just like here; refusing to use in-game VOIP, refusing to join even the most casual of units, turning off team and all-chat, refusing to even acknowledge they were in fact part of a team when playing co-op, and then complaining about occasionally getting stomped by premades or "OP" AI (like that happens, LOL), mostly just like here.

Edited by Ihasa, 10 December 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[Black Ivan]

Not to forget the Federation claim that they had to win by default, even when not trying to learn PvP, while KDF only could train PvP and was better in nearly any way.

[PFC Carsten]

Finally.

PFC Carsten, on 09 December 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

Nice - i will if i by chance stumble upon them. Are they in this thread?

Got some time and found your thread Sandpit (was not that hard tbh.) - very good ideas in there, some of which might be improved a little, others maybe expanded upon. But a very good start. Will replay there.

I hope we all agree, that in FaP, being endgame or not, we all will profit from more (new) players!

Edited by PFC Carsten, 11 December 2015 - 12:43 AM.