400 replies to this topic

[Wild_Alaskan]

InnerSphereNews, on 30 November 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Tuesday, December 1st @ 10AM – 1PM PDT

I realize there's quite a lot going on in this patch, but is it really expected to take 3 hours?

[Navid A1]

InnerSphereNews, on 30 November 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

• ECM protective range will be reduced from 180m to 90m.
• IS Single Heat Sinks is having its cooling rate increased from 0.10 to 0.12.
• IS Single Heat Sinks that are inside the engine will have their cooling increased from 0.1 to 0.11.
• IS Single Heat Sinks will have their heat capacity will be increased from -1.0 to -1.2. This is increasing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.
• IS Double Heat Sink has its heat capacity increased from -1.4 to -1.5. This is increasing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.
• Clan Double Heat Sink cooling rate increased from 0.14 to 0.15.
• Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.

You basically DESTROYED the mist lynx (and kitfox)... yeah, it was SO OP. You annihilated that chassis to oblivion.

Now that you have done this and are patting yourself on the back for normalizing an OP 25 ton mech, how about giving the mechs with under 250 rating to have 10 true double heatsinks (0.2 dissipation + 2 heat cap) for the first 10 equipped double heatsinks
As i'm not sure if you are aware of this, here's an explanation: only internal double heat sinks are actually doubles (truedubs) the ones in the engine slots or externals are the one with 0.15 dissipation and 1.1 cap now. Mechs like the lynx and the kitfox/adder (and most small lights IS/clan) have under 250 engines and therefore less than 10 true double heatsinks, hitting them hard in dissipation and capacity compared to larger mechs.

InnerSphereNews, on 30 November 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

...
• When a Clan 'Mech loses a Side Torso, its Engine power is now reduced by 20% for the rest of the match. This reduction applies to all factors affected by the Engine, such as turn rate, torso twist, and top speed.
Revised Skill Tree values


Kinetic Burst
7.5%
Twist X
2.5%
Hard Brake
7.5%
Twist Speed
2.5%
Arm Reflex
2.5%
Anchor Turn
2.5%
Speed Tweak
7.5%
All unlisted Skill Tree values are unchanged.

...

I would like an explanation on why 100 ton mechs in this game now go slower than their stock lore speeds (even with speed tweak unlocked).
at the previous 10% speed tweak, they could reach their lore speed at least.
example:
dire / atlas: both have 300 engine. in lore, they go 54kph. for some odd reason their stock speeds in MWO is 48kph and went up to 54 with speed tweak.

At the same time timber, ebon jag, stormcrow and hellbringer all go faster than their lore speed... you know the major reason behind the current lack of balance, all go faster than their stock speeds,
example: timber, ebon jag, hellbringer: stock is 81kph in lore and in MWO (without speed tweak). Speed tweak increases their already high top speed to 89 (now 87)

yet an atlas with a 300 engine goes 48 instead of 54. If it wants to follow the convention, with a 300 engine it should go 54 stock and 58 with the new speed tweak.

Edited by Navid A1, 30 November 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Ramrod AI, on 30 November 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

Lol what is there to discuss about Streakboats? The only people I see defending them are people who use them and Clanners. 2 Alphas and a light mech is dead and maybe some mediums. You know as well as I do that it's OP. I'd rather deal with Ultra Boats then Skill-less streakboats. At least with Ultra Boats you have to aim at your target. You have no argument about streakboats...none whatsoever.

You've yet to provide a useful suggestion.


How about this: Do the initial plan of Steam fire Streaks. 2 by 2. Larger launchers affected more.


There you go, a reasonable solution, not:

"NERF TEH OP HAXOR CLAMS BECAUSE REASONS"

FYI, everything can kill Lights in 3 Alphas.

Edited by Mcgral18, 30 November 2015 - 03:39 PM.

[-Ramrod-]

And the new quirks for mechs I have mixed feelings about. Seems good for the most part but some mechs did not need their laser quirks nerfed or taken away completely. Cicadas for example.

[stjobe]

Xenon Codex, on 30 November 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Actually... Excel ".xlsx" are just zip archives of XML files. You can extract them with a zip utility like 7-Zip. Not that it makes it more useful or anything.

Going off on a tangent here, I know, but...

That does not change in the slightest the incorrectness of calling an .xslx file an "XML file" - it just isn't an XML file. It's a zip archive of a file structure with a lot of XML files in it. Opening that file up, there's 24 files in 8 folders, only one of which (sharedStrings.xml) holds the relevant data, i.e. the quirks . The rest is fluff for Excel to display it correctly.

And more importantly, an XML file is human-readable, an .xslx file is not.

Edit: Anyway, I see they've changed it to say "Excel file", so all is well.

Edited by stjobe, 30 November 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Navid A1, on 30 November 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

[/i][/i]

You basically DESTROYED the mist lynx (and kitfox)... yeah, it was SO OP. You annihilated that chassis to oblivion.

Now that you have done this and are patting yourself on the back for normalizing an OP 25 ton mech, how about giving the mechs with under 250 rating to have 10 true double heatsinks (0.2 dissipation + 2 heat cap) for the first 10 equipped double heatsinks
As i'm not sure if you are aware of this, here's an explanation: only internal double heat sinks are actually doubles (truedubs) the ones in the engine slots or externals are the one with 0.15 dissipation and 1.1 cap now. Mechs like the lynx and the kitfox/adder (and most small lights IS/clan) have under 250 engines and therefore less than 10 true double heatsinks, hitting them hard in dissipation and capacity compared to larger mechs.

[/i]

I would like an explanation on why 100 ton mechs in this game now go slower than their stock speeds (even with speed tweak unlocked).
at the previous 10% speed tweak, they could reach their lore speed at least.
At the same time timber, ebon jag, stormcrow and hellbringer all go faster than their lore speed... you know the major reason behind the current lack of balance all go faster than their stock speeds, yet an atlas with a 300 engine goes 48 instead of 54.

Actually... this is going to help the Kitfox and more so the Myst Lynx. You're only looking at half the equation, the CAPACITY is reduced, but the rate of cooling is increased.

What this really means is the death of the laser vomit. High-alpha mechs are gonna shut down from their sudden inrush of heat. Small mechs that add little bits of heat at a constant rate will be better off, as the rate of cooling will better keep up with them.

Though, with the skill tree nerfs... everything is gonna feel way hotter.

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 30 November 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Mcgral18, on 30 November 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

FYI, everything can kill Lights in 3 Alphas.

I believe their point is that at least you have a chance to get out of the way, around a corner, or otherwise dodge any other kind of alpha. If a Streakboat gets a lock on you, that's the game. It's not a lot of fun to play against.

As for how I'd fix it? Not totally sure.

My idea back in the day was to limit the size of a hardpoint as well as the type, so you couldn't slap an AC20 in an slot that was occupied by a AC2, for example. In the current design? Not sure - maybe limit the number of similar weapons that can be loaded on the same mech, or reduce the number of missile hardpoints?

[edit] Really, what would fix everything wrong in this game is a Hatchetman.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 30 November 2015 - 03:45 PM.

[-Ramrod-]

Mcgral18, on 30 November 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

*sigh*
Nerfing the Suckonner isn't exactly a great proposal.


Shame people don't care to discuss balance logically.

I already suggested something. But people have a right to express themselves without people like you complaining or mocking about other people complaining. If I had spent 3 paragraphs complaining I could understand. DEAL WITH IT LIKE AN ADULT. Now as far as more suggestions...double the heat of Streaks. Increase the cool down. Reduce the range. Edit Omnipods on certain mechs. As in take away a hardpoint or two. Increase the lock on time. Plenty of options. I don't want to start a fight but people like you are no better than the people you mock. I have a right to express myself without you whining because I'm complaining.

[Matthew Ace]

Navid A1, on 30 November 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

I would like an explanation on why 100 ton mechs in this game now go slower than their stock lore speeds (even with speed tweak unlocked).

at the previous 10% speed tweak, they could reach their lore speed at least.
example:
dire / atlas: both have 300 engine. in lore, they go 54kph. for some odd reason their stock speeds in MWO is 48kph and went up to 54 with speed tweak.

At the same time timber, ebon jag, stormcrow and hellbringer all go faster than their lore speed... you know the major reason behind the current lack of balance, all go faster than their stock speeds,
example: timber, ebon jag, hellbringer: stock is 81kph in lore and in MWO (without speed tweak). Speed tweak increases their already high top speed to 89 (now 87)

yet an atlas with a 300 engine goes 48 instead of 54. If it wants to follow the convention, with a 300 engine it should go 54 stock and 58 with the new speed tweak.

Simple answer: You can't go 0.5 Hex in TT (at least not with Basic ruleset), so they rounded up. 100 tonners with 300 rating goes 48.6 kph (4.5 hexes) in MW3 as well.

Likewise all Mechs that go 86 4 kph (8 hexes) are supposed to go 81 kph (7.5 hexes).

Edited by Matthew Ace, 30 November 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[shopsmart]

xeromynd, on 30 November 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

ECM is changed, range reduction

You clearly didn't read my entire post. ECM didn't change -1. ECM range change +1.....

[Duncan1dah0]

You had me at cockpit screens.

[Navid A1]

Twilight Fenrir, on 30 November 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Actually... this is going to help the Kitfox and more so the Myst Lynx. You're only looking at half the equation, the CAPACITY is reduced, but the rate of cooling is increased.

What this really means is the death of the laser vomit. High-alpha mechs are gonna shut down from their sudden inrush of heat. Small mechs that add little bits of heat at a constant rate will be better off, as the rate of cooling will better keep up with them.

Though, with the skill tree nerfs... everything is gonna feel way hotter.

well...lets do the calculation shall we?

before this the cooling rate of a normal mist lynx with 4 ERLs and 13 double heatsinks ( 7 internal + 6 external) was (with double basics):
1.15 * (7 * 0.2 + 6 * 0.14) = 2.576 h/s
and with this grand change:
1.15 * (7 * 0.2 + 6 * 0.15) = 2.645 h/s

see... the difference is 0.069 heat/s. To understand it better... it would take 14.5 seconds for the new change to dissipate 1 units of heat more than the previous clan DHS. So please stop justifying and sugar coating.

Also, no. Skill tree nerfs do not change anything regarding heat.

Matthew Ace, on 30 November 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

Simple answer: You can't go 0.5 Hex in TT (at least not with Basic ruleset), so they rounded up. 100 tonners with 300 rating goes 48.6 kph (4.5 hexes) in MW3 as well.

Likewise all Mechs that go 86 4 kph (8 hexes) are supposed to go 81 kph (7.5 hexes).

I thought that was the whole point of speed tweak skill.... to compensate for that.

Edited by Navid A1, 30 November 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[JernauM]

So they went through with the agility nerfs on the skill tree, thereby reducing mech survivability. At the same time, they did not nerf the skill tree on cool run, heat containment, or fast fire, so no impact on overall damage output.

Those players who believe that TTK is too low should be concerned.

[SkippyT72]

Twilight Fenrir, on 30 November 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Actually... this is going to help the Kitfox and more so the Myst Lynx. You're only looking at half the equation, the CAPACITY is reduced, but the rate of cooling is increased.

What this really means is the death of the laser vomit. High-alpha mechs are gonna shut down from their sudden inrush of heat. Small mechs that add little bits of heat at a constant rate will be better off, as the rate of cooling will better keep up with them.

Though, with the skill tree nerfs... everything is gonna feel way hotter.

Only with the Clan mechs, the IS mechs got more buffs as usual esp mechs like the BJ-1X that was over quirked before this patch.

[Navid A1]

JernauM, on 30 November 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

So they went through with the agility nerfs on the skill tree, thereby reducing mech survivability. At the same time, they did not nerf the skill tree on cool run, heat containment, or fast fire, so no impact on overall damage output.

Those players who believe that TTK is too low should be concerned.

The major problem was high alpha clan laser vomit, reduced heat capacity of clan double heat sinks is for that.


However PGI has a F* everything that is clan mentality. They want to normalize timbers and crows... they do it in a blanket nerf screwing over a dozen useless clan chassis in the process.!

They quirk the hell out of under-performing IS mechs... yet when there is a useless clan chassis involved its:
here, have this 2.5% more MG range!

Edited by Navid A1, 30 November 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[Motroid]

So basicly nothing is about to change fundamentally. What a lackluster. Really disappointing.
Yeah, ECM range, Gauss CD, C-Laser ranges and C-XL Engine nerfs were all truely needed
but
ECM is still OP and LRMs are still useless.
Laserboats will still be king. Gauss is still best overall Ballistic.
...
...
Cockpitmonitors are nice tho...

[Twilight Fenrir]

Navid A1, on 30 November 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

well...lets do the calculation shall we?

before this the cooling rate of a normal mist lynx with 4 ERLs and 13 double heatsinks ( 7 internal + 6 external) was (with double basics):
1.15 * (7 * 0.2 + 6 * 0.14) = 2.576 h/s
and with this grand change:
1.15 * (7 * 0.2 + 6 * 0.15) = 2.645 h/s

see... the difference is 0.069 heat/s. To understand it better... it would take 14.5 seconds for the new change to dissipate 1 units of heat more than the previous clan DHS. So please stop justifying and sugar coating.

Also, no. Skill tree nerfs do not change anything regarding heat.

Huh? They didn't keep the heat skill nerfs from PTS4? Whoops ^^; I guess I kind of just... glazed over everything assuming most of it was verbatim. That's my bad.

Well, I can't argue with the math! I would rather see heatsinks that cool quicker, than ones with higher capacity... but I do think they took the capacity a bit too far...t he 1.2 in PTS3 seemed fine... Or, if they leave it 1.1, they need to buff cooling rate up another .1 . If it really proves to be a problem, I"m sure it will get adjusted. There wasn't much room for feedback in PTS4. With this live, EVERYONE will chime in.

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 30 November 2015 - 04:23 PM.

[Navid A1]

Also, regarding gauss nerfs

As people have been saying it for a long time...

PGI, please, give something to the IS gauss to compensate its 15 ton weight. Was the cooldown nerf really necessary for the IS gauss as well?

This does not make sense at all....
Cooldown for IS gauss should have stayed where it was... I'd say even giving it more health or reducing the chance of explosion would have been nice...
why these blanket nerfs are so out of whack!

Edited by Navid A1, 30 November 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[ackstorm]

This is the result of PTS? What a waste. All my clan mechs just got weaker, yay more concessions for IS meta babies!

[TyphonCh]

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