160 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 21 December 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Jack, i was in CWI for quite sometime, kappa galaxy. Dont remember you there... I also run with epsilon
Still, i do know alot of people that will agree with me both in CWI and Epsi.

Still, if PGI wants balance, then pug drops should be only clan vs clan, IS vs IS. CW should be without nerfs or quirks, with the suggestiond i made in the beggining, like more people on IS side, suply bases, etc, it would be very interesting

Yes I know spadejack, I know who you are, I've seen you and been around you plenty of times regardless of whether or not your remember it. I'm glad you have some people that think your ideas are cool, but I don't see that some of those people being in my unit holds any relevance whatsoever. The argument "I know people who agree with me" is not going to do anything to change my opinion.

I think your suggestion is bad for player-base longevity and thus bad for me, and that's the long and short of it. Your opinion is your own, as is mine, but I will continue to share my beliefs with those around me and with those whom fall under my wing as a Star Captain in CWI.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 21 December 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

Sorry man, either you go "Lore" or you dont! If PGI decides to use the lore, it cant be only for what they deem fit! Either this game is MechWarrior / Battletech or it isnt! There is no between! If there is, then it is a phalacy to its origins!
PGI's position on this is... confusing... so, in fact, there is no clans nor IS, there is something related to it...

You don't have to apologize, your statement is not factual. Just because you feel PGI should go all or nothing on lore does not not mean they have to, or that it's necessarily the smart decision. Stating your opinions as if they were facts does nothing for your case.

Couple of other things:

A. Mechwarrior titles in general aren't known for sticking strictly to tabletop values and rules. So it's more a question of "is this a Battletech game or a Mechwarrior game?" I'd say it qualifies as a Mechwarrior game, not as a Battletech game.

B. Fallacy does not equate to Phallacy. Phallus means Penis.

Spadejack, on 21 December 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

We must accept, either we play MechWarrior, an unbalanced game, where clans do have the better tech, and IS has the best economy, or we play something like a robot piloting game that resembles the so called MechWarrior games...

No we mustn't, that's a false dilemma. No-one is forced to make that choice.

Spadejack, on 21 December 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

...but in fact isnt. If the latter is what people wants, then change the game's name, to "Stompy Robots that look like the Battletech Mechs" or something... Ill be sure to go and search a MechWarrior game instead

No-one is stopping you from leaving if you are so bitter about the direction of the game's balance. And do I really need to point out once again that changing the name of the product in such a way is a breach of contract for PGI?

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 22 December 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[Russhuster]

As soon as the player is accepting the premisse that MWO is neither a Battletech game nor a Mechwarrior game
and lore has about to do with MWO like a mole has with playing icehockey
As soon you consider this game as something like a Robot-Mecha-Shooter what robots look similar and are named similar to Battlemechs you/me/the Player in general can actually find some fun in the game

AND

As long as both parts of the team, Clan and Inner Sphere players find some fun in the game it may be called balanced,..
But when you give advantages and quirks to one side exclusively, negating any advantage the second part of the team has left
While the second part of the team gets Nerf after Nerf /~period vomited over its head
you can see the fun horse of one half of the team galopping to the horizon
The Problem is
Players tend to follow that fun-horse

And that is what we do see atm, the Number of Clan palyers is decreasing constantly


Always remember we may fight each other in the game, but we are playing this game together

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

As soon as the player is accepting the premisse that MWO is neither a Battletech game nor a Mechwarrior game
and lore has about to do with MWO like a mole has with playing icehockey
As soon you consider this game as something like a Robot-Mecha-Shooter what robots look similar and are named similar to Battlemechs you/me/the Player in general can actually find some fun in the game

Actually, I do not need to do this to find fun in the game. I consider it to be a MechWarrior game and I have tons of fun every day when I play it. If you need to accept these things to have fun then that is your prerogative Russhuster. But it is a flat out false claim to say that everyone must accept these things to have fun.

I know you as well as others, such as SpadeJack, are very passionate about your opinions, but going on and stating them as if they were facts is not going to convince others that you are right.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

As long as both parts of the team, Clan and Inner Sphere players find some fun in the game it may be called balanced,..

I don't think that is the criteria for making something balanced, but I suppose you can call that balance if you like.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

But when you give advantages and quirks to one side exclusively, negating any advantage the second part of the team has left
While the second part of the team gets Nerf after Nerf /~period vomited over its head
you can see the fun horse of one half of the team galopping to the horizon
The Problem is
Players tend to follow that fun-horse

And that is what we do see atm, the Number of Clan palyers is decreasing constantly

That metaphor was a bit confusing, but I assume that you're saying the constant nerf to clans is making them less and less popular. That is somewhat of a problem, but buffing clans back where they are overpowered again is not the solution for bringing the clan population back up.

In the meantime so long as the player base as a whole is stable, I can live with a decreasing clan population; I'm happy with my clan mechs and will continue to use mine every day. The way my mechs are built and the way I pilot them, I do not feel like I'm underpowered or nerfed in any way.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 23 December 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 23 December 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

Actually, I do not need to do this to find fun in the game. I consider it to be a MechWarrior game and I have tons of fun every day when I play it. If you need to accept these things to have fun then that is your prerogative Russhuster. But it is a flat out false claim to say that everyone must accept these things to have fun.

That is a false dillema, what youare talkeing is about your own personal feel and opinion. As such, its not factual.
This isnt a Mechwarrior game, is something that resembles it. They cant name it something diferent due to legal issues. Still, due to the way the game has developed, it is not a Mechwarrior game.

PS- In my language, fallacy is writen phalácia, so i wrote that without thinking if it would be ph or a f...

[Jack Spade Ward]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 23 December 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

In the meantime so long as the player base as a whole is stable, I can live with a decreasing clan population; I'm happy with my clan mechs and will continue to use mine every day. The way my mechs are built and the way I pilot them, I do not feel like I'm underpowered or nerfed in any way.

Good for you man, honestly, if you feel that your clan mechs still feel the same, that is awsome. But, again, that is your own personal opinion.The thing is that they are not a shadow of what they are suposed to be.

My opinion is that those mechs are dead, and with the last patch, burried. Im back using IS mechs, and these mechs, are beasts!!! There is nothing like brawling on an orion or a hunchie. Want to go sniper? Jagger dual gauss... raven 3l dual ERLL... pinpoint alphas, thunderbolts... you name it!
What does clan has now? Almost nothing... it has heat (single/doble heatsinks???), it used to have range, no pinpoint whatsoever, DPS (maybe.... but spreads damage way too much), broken ACs, and it has... STYLE!!! You just cant beat those MADCATs style, or even the shadow cat...

Edited by Spadejack, 23 December 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

What about ripping quirks out and having them be a function of the weapon designer (ie - planet you control). So you want the "quicker cooldown ML?" (or don't want the IS to have it)? Control that world. Want the longer range LPL? Control that world. Etc. Could work and could fix two problems at once.

Also, and I have to say this: "Clan tech / mechs are in most part inferior to IS mechs / tech"

...come on.

[Russhuster]

@Jack Shayu Walker
You do know me? rally? youre making an interesting assertion there - one that is not true.


As my statement did not adress you personally or stated the condition as obligatory
I do not need to urge anybody to anything. the statement was to be seen as more wide fielded
tending to deliver an objective sight and approach.

where do you read the player must or you personally have to?
Where did i state it as fact ? another assertion of yours

you speak of your opinions and feelings that is fine for you
But not even you did say MWO has sth to do with Battletech so let me ask you for a explanation
What gives you the impression This could be a mechwarrior game?. iam curious for your line of reasoning.

But your individual impression, is universal applicable? An interesting theory or yours

But what will happen when the average steam Player mayhaps with some BT Background meets MWO ?
May i suggest In that context, read my statement again

As i never say my premises are the quintessence, feel free to refute

As to rebuffing the clans to overwhelming power,.. where did i demand such
I did say the Clans got and get the Nerfhammer repeated an will get it over and over again
And that will destroy the fun in many players. Matter of facttly it already did thats why so many did change sides or leave
am i false there?
please refute the sentence

i did say this is spoiling the fun out of the clan payers what Numbers are dectreasing constantly and at accelerating speed
At least you d see the central problematic issue. so youre not denieing that fact
and yes this time i am speaking of a fact - what i can prove
just look at the Tuk-event player numbers

I d wish for some,.. in fact for many Clan chassis that thetre would be a considerate balancing and not swinging the Nerf Hammer over all and everything trying to hit the Timberwolf or other useful Clan mechs but hitting every chassis
What a Timberwolf a Crow or an ARC can cope with is killing other less competetive Mechs.
Have you seen many Summoners lately Novas? Ferrets? Gargoyles?... a continuable list no?

But inteligent and what is more needed individual(chassis considered) considerate and thoughtful handling Nerfs and Quirks with clan chassis did not happen at all. And that Fact iam denouncing

A spoiled away Player wont come back so easyly

[Tilakkam]

Winter map in cw counter attack - got red armor on my respawn as attacker ( IS mechs just shoot from their base - near 1.8-2 kilometers). It was my first cw, so you maybe know my feelings.

But, as i remember correct PGI play on IS side so nerfhammer will always strike clans.


PS. sorry for my english.



.

[gloowa]

Padre Balistique, on 20 December 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

and here I was informed that 12v10/12v8 balancing was a logical fallacy.

because that's asymmetrical, balancing superior tech against superior numbers. One of the only ways the game can be balanced and give people of equal skill a fair shake regardless of their affiliation.

<sigh>
1) canon that shoots for 5 damage every 5 seconds at a distance of 10
2) canon that shoots for 10 damage every 10 seconds at a distance of 10

which is stronger? are they identical? ta-da, asymetrical balance, without having to "equalize damage" on weapons.

more elaborate example:
character can shoot 1 shot every second that deals 5 damage. no melee. 100hp.
character can only melee, but does 50 damage. 100hp. moves slighly faster then other character.
ta-da, asymetrical balance, without having to "equalize damage" on weapons or without the weapons having anything in common at all.

this is what he is trying to explain to you while you pretend you do not understand that.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 23 December 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

That is a false dillema, what youare talkeing is about your own personal feel and opinion. As such, its not factual.
This isnt a Mechwarrior game, is something that resembles it. They cant name it something diferent due to legal issues. Still, due to the way the game has developed, it is not a Mechwarrior game.

PS- In my language, fallacy is writen phalácia, so i wrote that without thinking if it would be ph or a f...

Actually, what I said was not a False Dilemma Spadejack. A Dilemma as it is defined under the circumstances of debate (the dictionary definition has changed a bit, but the term false dilemma was founded upon the basis of Dilemma's original defintion) is a logical problem in which you ONLY have two options and you must pick from those two options. A False Dilemma is when, in a debate, someone presents problem as only having two solutions, when in fact there are more than two solutions.

In my rebuttal to Russhuster I did not present two claims insisting either one or the other was true. In fact the part of my response you are quoting is debunking Russhuster's own false dilemma. Russhuster claimed that either I had to think of MWO as a Mechwarrior game and not find any fun in it, or I MUST think of MWO as a non-Mechwarrior game and find fun. I was pointing out that I went with an option he implied did not exist; that is, I think of MWO as a Mechwarrior game AND have fun.

Also, it is your opinion that MWO is not a Mechwarrior game, SpadeJack, it is not a provable factual statement as one can define for themselves what makes a game a Mechwarrior game.

PS: Sorry about that buddy, that was a bit of a low blow, I shouldn't have pointed it out as it had nothing to do with our debate.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 24 December 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[Russhuster]

again asumptions Jack Shayou Walker?
and still no line of reasoning? .. somewhat disappoitng

where do you see a false dilemma in my lines?
I claimed MWO has nothing to do with BT and as Mechwarrior is a game based on BT it can hardly be a Mechwarrior game neither

you stated you think it is a Mechwarrior game, and i asked for what lead you to that sight
in the seldomest cases there ONLY exists black or white

your opinions ocuring rather dark greyish to me,.. but still am curious to your line of reasoning

Edited by Russhuster, 24 December 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[Dugra Dugrasson]

Spadejack, on 14 December 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

I would say that PGI could do 20 vs 10 (IS vs Clan) if PGI unnerfed to the original state of the clans, when they came out. It would be alot dificult to Clans indeed, but that way, any clanner couldnt complain, since it is the LORE, remember, IS won tukkayyd because of CommStar, Economy and numbers on the field.
Read the solutions i made in the post i started

I think 10 v 12 would be a more realistic implementation of asymmetrical warfare.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

@Jack Shayu Walker
You do know me? rally? youre making an interesting assertion there - one that is not true.


As my statement did not adress you personally or stated the condition as obligatory
I do not need to urge anybody to anything. the statement was to be seen as more wide fielded
tending to deliver an objective sight and approach.

where do you read the player must or you personally have to?
Where did i state it as fact ? another assertion of yours

Hey man, as the poster you know more about what you meant to say then I do, all I can work off of is what I interpret. If you say I misinterpreted it, then I misinterpreted it. I apologize if I did misinterpreted it. I interpreted it as "you must either think of MWO as a non-Mechwarrior game and have no fun, or you must think of MWO as a non-Mechwarrior game and have fun."

If that is the correct interpretation then I merely wanted to point out that it was a false dilemma. If it wasn't, well at the end of the day, you know your own thoughts better than I do.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

you speak of your opinions and feelings that is fine for you
But not even you did say MWO has sth to do with Battletech so let me ask you for a explanation
What gives you the impression This could be a mechwarrior game?. iam curious for your line of reasoning.

I feel this is a mechwarrior game because all of the mechs in the game are Mechs from the battletech universe. It's a first/(third) person shooter like previous MechWarrior games. There is a loose interpretation of how some of the weapon systems work like some of the previous Mechwarrior games. It's set in the same universe as previous Mechwarrior games, there is still a partial but not complete adherence to lore, like previous Mechwarrior games. There's really few deviances from the Mechwarrior formula. Granted I've only played Mech3 and Mech4 plus their expansions, but so far as I can see there are very few deviances from the Mechwarrior formula, those being it's multiplayer only, and it's free to play.

Most Mechwarrior games deviate from battletech to some degree, so that fact that MWO has done that, to me, does not make MWO and non-MechWarrior game.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

But your individual impression, is universal applicable? An interesting theory or yours

No my individual impressions is not universally applicable. I think perhaps you have misinterpreted my words just as I have misinterpreted yours.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

But what will happen when the average steam Player mayhaps with some BT Background meets MWO ?
May i suggest In that context, read my statement again

I do not think the averege incoming steam players are going to have a Mechwarrior or BT background, so I don't think MWO's deviance from Battletech will be an issue. Some of the new players do have a BT background though, and I have talked to some of these people, and as none of them so far have been lore purists they did not seem to mind the deviations.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

As i never say my premises are the quintessence, feel free to refute

As to rebuffing the clans to overwhelming power,.. where did i demand such
I did say the Clans got and get the Nerfhammer repeated an will get it over and over again
And that will destroy the fun in many players. Matter of facttly it already did thats why so many did change sides or leave
am i false there?
please refute the sentence

I did not say or mean to imply that your solution would be to make cans vastly overpowered again. What I meant to imply was that buffing Clans back up significantly is a bad idea. If you had an idea for making Clans more fun without buffing them then I apologize for making an unfair assumption.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

i did say this is spoiling the fun out of the clan payers what Numbers are dectreasing constantly and at accelerating speed
At least you d see the central problematic issue. so youre not denieing that fact
and yes this time i am speaking of a fact - what i can prove
just look at the Tuk-event player numbers

IS vastly outnumbered Clan during the last Tukyaid event as well, so I don't think that is proof necessarily. There have always been more IS players than Clan players. I do think there has been some significant movement towards IS though.

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

I d wish for some,.. in fact for many Clan chassis that thetre would be a considerate balancing and not swinging the Nerf Hammer over all and everything trying to hit the Timberwolf or other useful Clan mechs but hitting every chassis
What a Timberwolf a Crow or an ARC can cope with is killing other less competetive Mechs.
Have you seen many Summoners lately Novas? Ferrets? Gargoyles?... a continuable list no?

No, but I pilot Summoners and Novas almost exclusively. I pilot them in the group queue too : p
They're my favorite mechs currently and I do very well in them. I will give you that they are very tricky to build, but they can be scary : D

I'm also looking at getting a Gargoyle for my Trial of Bloodright. It will be a smaller version of my Executioner (my third fav mech atm!)

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

But inteligent and what is more needed individual(chassis considered) considerate and thoughtful handling Nerfs and Quirks with clan chassis did not happen at all. And that Fact iam denouncing

A spoiled away Player wont come back so easyly

What do you mean by spoiled away player?

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 24 December 2015 - 07:41 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

again asumptions Jack Shayou Walker?
and still no line of reasoning? .. somewhat disappoitng

where do you see a false dilemma in my lines?
I claimed MWO has nothing to do with BT and as Mechwarrior is a game based on BT it can hardly be a Mechwarrior game neither

you stated you think it is a Mechwarrior game, and i asked for what lead you to that sight
in the seldomest cases there ONLY exists black or white

your opinions ocuring rather dark greyish to me,.. but still am curious to your line of reasoning

Sorry, I am reading these posts in chronological order and responding to them one at a time.

[Russhuster]

i accept and apologize myself in one so no harm is done right?

Quote

I feel this is a mechwarrior game because all of the mechs in the game are Mechs from the battletech universe.

if that d be true i would be with you in stating MWO as mechwarrior game even a BT or lore friendly one
But they are not! Just compare those mechs there

http://www.sarna.net...ory:BattleMechs

some abilitys are simply turned upside down and lead the concepts ad absurdum
by the so called "balancing"
How much has a Thunderbolt with a whole union ship of quirks to do with the Thunderbolt Battlemech
others are even worse
whilst some Clan mechs are nerfed to caricatures of these

I am with you in the fact that there is Balance needed but individual done on every Mech chjassis to provide a nieche for that mech and not nerfing it to death
also i have the impression that nerfing heavyly is overdone now whilst some IS-quirkbuckets are almost in god mode
maybe its just a subjective impression i have there but that thenor i do hear from a lot of people playing clan chassis
i do have both IS and Clan and each time i am using a IS robot, iam amazed how cool it is running without any signs of ghost heat and how easy i get kills with these, Many say not even IS in itself is balanced anymore and that says alot imho.

Can you widen my picture with your insight there?

The setting up in the Universe and as CW came the starmap, i was delighted and still like that idea and how it got implemented
In a very,.. very loose interpretation i can see your point, even with toothache and yould agree when the Mechs as you stated would be somewhat more BT related, is having just the looks alike enough for you?

some have, regrettably only very little off the Looks and names in common with that mechs
A point in your favour is that most of these looks are very appealing to the eye and are able to transport a "feeling"
even if the data and nerfs / Quirks destroys that feeling so remendously at the same time
with the ftp aspect and multiplayer youare right but i wage these as positive points for MWO as mechwarriors are real palyers and not mere ki surrogates, what sticks perfectly to BT and lore

Keeping the game free to play is a fact PGI cant be praised enough for
and thats why they saw some hundret bucks from me, in buying the packs way more than i wouldve spent on a regular game.

With the Lore on the other hand i think we do have very different sights
I can see alsmost nothing left in MWO that is lore conform

IS s running cooler has more range better armor is more agile and in almost every case able to be faster than Clan for xample but also the aility of some IS chassis to fre five or more large pulse lasers with not even coming near any red heat zone is throwing every thought of lore to the trash as well as
destroying the concept ammo based weapons do run cooler than energy weapons
even an uac has ghost heat now what does not only destroy the ammo vs heatsinks concept but annihilates the balance of Is mech vs IS mech in a very significant way

Quote

I do not think the averege incoming steam players are going to have a Mechwarrior or BT background,

well if somebody sees the steam makeup and white knighting that is done there one can say whow
quite appealing graphics, fluent gameplay
what is that a Bahttle- Meech?
and so one asks google that leads you to a vast nuimber of pages, and sooner or later this interested guy will read about lore and BT
So a certain BT background may not be compelling but seems to be axiomatic
and then the questions may occure
hey that timberwolf is described very different, why did phelan wolf fight in gargoyle when its such a joke of a mech........
Clans ? haha no thread at all... or hmmm shouldnt the hunchback have e very strong lamellor armor?
why its such of a glass cannon,.. same with the dakka dragon or wubbolts a.s.o

is in that connection my sentence about realizing MWO being more of a mecha shooter making any sense now?

when you compare Tuk1 with Tuk2 how would you describe the development of the Clanplayer-share compared to IS?

am pulling my hat to you Summoner pilot, you have my sympathy
i mastered the summoner myself and still own the three of the masakari pack
but i think it has a ridiculous low payload almost forcing you towards and energy build or using a very tightly considered ammo load, even medium is mechs have more. not to speak of the blackjack

think twice bevore you fire a weap in the gargy thats my advice,.. it is a very hot running robot even using med lasers only will stretch your heat management over the limit esp with an c-Arm
UAC + laser worked best for me am not a fan of the lbx i have to confess.


well over the time i did see many clanners go, disapointed feeling even betrayed by IGP,
some stayed and changed side towards merc, thode who did go completely are playing other games by now they wont come back

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

i accept and apologize myself in one so no harm is done right?

No harm done.

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

if that d be true i would be with you in stating MWO as mechwarrior game even a BT or lore friendly one
But they are not! Just compare those mechs there

http://www.sarna.net...ory:BattleMechs

some abilitys are simply turned upside down and lead the concepts ad absurdum
by the so called "balancing"
How much has a Thunderbolt with a whole union ship of quirks to do with the Thunderbolt Battlemech
others are even worse
whilst some Clan mechs are nerfed to caricatures of these

I am with you in the fact that there is Balance needed but individual done on every Mech chjassis to provide a nieche for that mech and not nerfing it to death
also i have the impression that nerfing heavyly is overdone now whilst some IS-quirkbuckets are almost in god mode
maybe its just a subjective impression i have there but that thenor i do hear from a lot of people playing clan chassis
i do have both IS and Clan and each time i am using a IS robot, iam amazed how cool it is running without any signs of ghost heat and how easy i get kills with these, Many say not even IS in itself is balanced anymore and that says alot imho.

Can you widen my picture with your insight there?

The setting up in the Universe and as CW came the starmap, i was delighted and still like that idea and how it got implemented
In a very,.. very loose interpretation i can see your point, even with toothache and yould agree when the Mechs as you stated would be somewhat more BT related, is having just the looks alike enough for you?

some have, regrettably only very little off the Looks and names in common with that mechs
A point in your favour is that most of these looks are very appealing to the eye and are able to transport a "feeling"
even if the data and nerfs / Quirks destroys that feeling so remendously at the same time
with the ftp aspect and multiplayer youare right but i wage these as positive points for MWO as mechwarriors are real palyers and not mere ki surrogates, what sticks perfectly to BT and lore

Keeping the game free to play is a fact PGI cant be praised enough for
and thats why they saw some hundret bucks from me, in buying the packs way more than i wouldve spent on a regular game.

The Thunderbolt isn't the best example for me, since I don't recall the T-bolt being in previous MechWarrior games (might have been in MW4 Mercs, but I don't remember it). A better example for me would be the Timber Wolf.

To me, the Timber Wolf in MWO is very similar to the Timber Wolf/Mad Cat in MEch3 and Mech4. It is similar enough that it does not break my immersion. It looks the same with stylistic differences that I approve of, it has the same (Inner Sphere) name, mounts the same kindof weapons in the same places on the mech, and in MWO it even has a table-top friendly stock loadout.

These things are enough for me to recognize it as a Timber Wolf, regardless of if PGI's interpretation of the mech has some negative quirks for balancing purposes (whether it's helping to balance the game is another issue). The fact that it doesn't translate perfectly straight out of the sourcebook is fine with me. PGI is at least doing better than Mech Assault.

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

With the Lore on the other hand i think we do have very different sights
I can see alsmost nothing left in MWO that is lore conform

IS s running cooler has more range better armor is more agile and in almost every case able to be faster than Clan for xample but also the aility of some IS chassis to fre five or more large pulse lasers with not even coming near any red heat zone is throwing every thought of lore to the trash as well as
destroying the concept ammo based weapons do run cooler than energy weapons
even an uac has ghost heat now what does not only destroy the ammo vs heatsinks concept but annihilates the balance of Is mech vs IS mech in a very significant way

Yes it is somewhat immersion breaking that IS tech is able to compete with clan tech, but it is not so immersion breaking that it takes me out of the game and removes the fun. PGI chose to try and balance Clan and IS tech asymmetrically without doing 10 v 12, and I can respect their decision; it's smart from a business perspective.

Despite this there are a lot of weapons that have lore friendly damage values, equipment with lore friendly weight values and mechs with lore friendly amounts of podspace. There is some of the lore still there, but some of it had to be sacrificed for the sake of fun, and I'm okay with that.

Also I've never experienced ACs aside from AC20s, running hotter than lasers unless they are being HEAVILY boated.

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

well if somebody sees the steam makeup and white knighting that is done there one can say whow
quite appealing graphics, fluent gameplay
what is that a Bahttle- Meech?
and so one asks google that leads you to a vast nuimber of pages, and sooner or later this interested guy will read about lore and BT
So a certain BT background may not be compelling but seems to be axiomatic
and then the questions may occure
hey that timberwolf is described very different, why did phelan wolf fight in gargoyle when its such a joke of a mech........
Clans ? haha no thread at all... or hmmm shouldnt the hunchback have e very strong lamellor armor?
why its such of a glass cannon,.. same with the dakka dragon or wubbolts a.s.o

is in that connection my sentence about realizing MWO being more of a mecha shooter making any sense now?

I do not think this is going to be the conclusion many, if any, steam players are going to come to. I think it's going to be very obvious to anyone who decides to learn more about BT that the lore is not written based off of MWO. I think they will realise that things naturally change when a tabletop game, novel, or single player game is converted into a FTP PvP format.

Now they will surely not all agree with how PGI chose to balance the game, but I do not think anybody is going to be left confused as to why the Timber Wolf in the Game isn't the same as the unstoppable death machine in the lore.

The fact that things changed to suit the new format that MechWarrior is being played in (a FTP PvP game) does not break my immersion near bad enough for me to think, "this isn't a MechWarrior game, this is just a regular mecha shooter that looks like a MechWarrior game." No, to me, this IS a MechWarrior game; it brings back all of the childhood memories of playing Mech3 and Mech4. I feel like a Mechwarrior, just as much as I did back then.

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

when you compare Tuk1 with Tuk2 how would you describe the development of the Clanplayer-share compared to IS?

Not really sure what you mean bud, most of the clan players I play with are in my Unit (CWI), Epsi, or German Clan Wolf. I don't really have my hand on the pulse of the clan PUG community, specifically. I just know what I hear from general PUGs in the public queue, I don't typically ask which side of the CW conflict they're on, or if they are playing CW at all.

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

am pulling my hat to you Summoner pilot, you have my sympathy
i mastered the summoner myself and still own the three of the masakari pack
but i think it has a ridiculous low payload almost forcing you towards and energy build or using a very tightly considered ammo load, even medium is mechs have more. not to speak of the blackjack

My Summoner "Jupiter" doesn't need your sympathy, he is a powerful force on the battlefield! :V
(JK)

With the recent quirking of the Summoner, I'm pretty happy with the state it's in. Granted it could be better, but I'm happy with it. It behaves like a 70 ton medium mech, it carries a medium mech's payload, it's as agile as a medium, and jumps (kinda) like a medium. The difference between a Summoner and a true medium is that the Summoner has the armor of a heavy mech, which is why I enjoy it. I get to move around like a medium, and take more damage than any real medium has any business taking.

The Summoner also shields well when torso twisting. It's flat human shape makes it very difficult to hit it's CT from the side... eeeeven if it's kind of a billboard from the front.

In terms of my Summoner's build, it's got the same weapons loadout as an Adder-Prime, 1x Flamer in the left arm, 2x ERPPCs in the right. Now before you laugh at me for carrying the weapons loadout of a LIGHT mech in a 70 tonner : p , let me just point out that my Summoner carries nearly two-and-a-half times as many double heat sinks as the Adder Prime (24 DHS total). The double-ERPPC can fire repetitively without shutting the mech down, giving it a damn good DPS especially for an ERPPC mech.

It makes a wicked counter-sniper in CW. The IS LL boats get wacked in the face with 30 (20 pinpoint) points of frontloaded damage every time they peak.

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

think twice bevore you fire a weap in the gargy thats my advice,.. it is a very hot running robot even using med lasers only will stretch your heat management over the limit esp with an c-Arm
UAC + laser worked best for me am not a fan of the lbx i have to confess.

UAC/10 + 6x cERSL is the plan for me, it's what I run on my Nova, and it's a blast.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 23 December 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Good for you man, honestly, if you feel that your clan mechs still feel the same, that is awsome. But, again, that is your own personal opinion.The thing is that they are not a shadow of what they are suposed to be.

My opinion is that those mechs are dead, and with the last patch, burried. Im back using IS mechs, and these mechs, are beasts!!! There is nothing like brawling on an orion or a hunchie. Want to go sniper? Jagger dual gauss... raven 3l dual ERLL... pinpoint alphas, thunderbolts... you name it!
What does clan has now? Almost nothing... it has heat (single/doble heatsinks???), it used to have range, no pinpoint whatsoever, DPS (maybe.... but spreads damage way too much), broken ACs, and it has... STYLE!!! You just cant beat those MADCATs style, or even the shadow cat...

I'd rather do my brawling in my Nova, and my Sniping in my Summoner. I have no fear of the hunchie, and I have no more fear of the Orion than I do of any other mech 50% heavier than my brawler. I'd fight an Orion in my Nova and consider it a decent but completable challenge. I've killed Orions 1 v 1 before and I'm sure I can do it again with some practice.

The most challenging Heavy to brawl against in my Nova has proved to be the Marauder quite honestly. That thing's got Hitboxes like a beast.

[Russhuster]

with the uac 10 ure quite right plus either splas or er-mediums tgt comp 2 1/ tons of ammo and some heat sinks

so as you know my basic opinion of what would or could be a way to balance clan and Is
What would be your suggestion?

Or do you think everything is fine the way it is?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Russhuster, on 24 December 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

with the uac 10 ure quite right plus either splas or er-mediums tgt comp 2 1/ tons of ammo and some heat sinks

so as you know my basic opinion of what would or could be a way to balance clan and Is
What would be your suggestion?

Or do you think everything is fine the way it is?

Everything seems pretty alright to me. If IS really is OP some heat increases to their lasers in conjunction to some marginal burn time buffs (reductions), should do alright (increase the cooldown so the fire rate is the same). Laser vomit needs to be made to hurt on both sides, but the IS lasers need to be about quicker burn and clan about bigger total damage. I'd also like to see IS Large Lasers have their ghost heat count reduced back to 2.

I'd also reduce the heat on all PPC weapons by about 2. Then make clan ERPPCs do 13 pinpoint and 1 splash to each side rather than their current configuration.