258 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

Nothing you posted addressed my point at all, so I'm not sure why you included my quote in your post.

But I will reiterate, Pilots did better when driving Clan mechs than when those exact same pilots were driving their IS mechs.

Whether that has to do with them dropping solo, and the average teammate PSR went up by moving to the Clans, or if that has to do with differences between tech bases, remains to be shown.

Breaking it down by unit Win%
1-50: Clans advantage by 6.5%
51-200: Clans advantage by 1.5%
201-250: IS advantage by 2%

and how can this happen since, as I wrote previously, it is more difficult to kill an IS mech than a clan one?

[Adamski]

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 December 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

and how can this happen since, as I wrote previously, it is more difficult to kill an IS mech than a clan one?

Because the increased durability of IS mechs is less than the increased damage output* of a Clan one?

*Damage output being a combination of alpha, DPS, range, and speed of mech

[STEF_]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Because the increased durability of IS mechs is less than the increased damage output* of a Clan one?

*Damage output being a combination of alpha, DPS, range, and speed of mech

wait....dps, range, heat eff. are better in IS, thanks to quirks.

[Adamski]

Here, I will ******* spell it out for you:
Average Damage Taken Before Death:
IS: 368 (7.9% advantage)
Clan: 341

Average Damage Dealt Per Match:
IS: 1030.38
Clan: 1137.08(10.36% advantage)

EDIT: Clan damage taken doesn't take into account damage received from Turrets, and neither faction takes into account damage taken from drop ships. Nor does Clan Damage dealt account for damage dealt to turrets / generators.

Edited by Adamski, 15 December 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[Tarogato]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

lol Only took 3 minutes for my post to get knighted and boy was that a whopper. So your basicly saying that most of the IS players SUCK and that we just take longer to kill ... lol

Yes.

[Spetulhu]

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 December 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

wait....dps, range, heat eff. are better in IS, thanks to quirks.

If it's a meta build, sure. But just as in any other online game with "end game" stuff it's only the most competitive players (and those who wish to be) that bother with searching for that last 1% boost by getting one more skill/module/consumable or whatever. Many top units went clan for the event so I'd guess the percentage of players that would squeeze the last out of a chassis also was higher on the clan side. I played part of the event in a couple groups (IS side) and some guys didn't even have their consumables set to auto-refill!

[STEF_]

Spetulhu, on 15 December 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

If it's a meta build, sure. But just as in any other online game with "end game" stuff it's only the most competitive players (and those who wish to be) that bother with searching for that last 1% boost by getting one more skill/module/consumable or whatever. Many top units went clan for the event so I'd guess the percentage of players that would squeeze the last out of a chassis also was higher on the clan side. I played part of the event in a couple groups (IS side) and some guys didn't even have their consumables set to auto-refill!

yep, that's what I was saying previously with "As far as I read the stats part 2.....sorry but all I can read is that IS has a looooooot of noobs doing bad.
And Clan won because there were better pilots and units there."

We were in a good spot about balance, imo.
Now thanks to psr4 IS is even better, but not the pilots.

Outside CW, I'm really piloting IS only after the quirk patch

[Doomerang]

What I don't understand are those IS players who field builds that don't capitalize on the quirks who crusade for Clan nerfs. IS fights IS in community warfare too, and OP IS quirk mechs are just as much a problem for them too, and their non-organized faction-mates.

[Adamski]

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 December 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

wait....dps, range, heat eff. are better in IS, thanks to quirks.

Which quirked IS mechs are you unable to match / beat with Clan tech and mechs?

Especially now that you have the Origins IIC mechs releasing today.

Huginn 2x SRM4 30% quirk & structure quirks
JR7-IIC - 6x cSRM4 & cXL engine

TDR-5SS 7x MPL
EBJ 6x cMPL

[STEF_]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Which quirked IS mechs are you unable to match / beat with Clan tech and mechs?

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 December 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

We were in a good spot about balance, imo.
Now thanks to psr4 IS is even better, but not the pilots.

Outside CW, I'm really piloting IS only after the quirk patch

[LeeNTien]

I don't think, that calling IIC "Clan" is fair. Or to compare them with the current IS or Clan mechs. They are IS mechs with Clan tech, and I'm quite sure, that if they turn out to bee totally unbalanced - negative quirks will follow.

[Jetfire]

I'm not going to pretend balance is perfect at the moment, but it is getting really close. The game is feeling better than ever from just about every respect. There is work to be done for certain and lots of arguments about strange mechanics like ghost heat, but what is there is working. You also need to consider that IS mechs got some pretty good armor and internal boosts damage is not the only balance factor.

[multisoul]

yes, the balance is broken, IS is now more powerful than Clan ... looking for the pilots

[Adamski]

multisoul, on 15 December 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

yes, the balance is broken, IS is now more powerful than Clan ... looking for the pilots

Which mechs are these? I want to know the build that you think the Clans cannot match in Alpha / Damage / Range / Speed.

The only absolute advantage that IS mechs have is in raw range on some very specific variants, but IS weapons are heavy enough that those mechs wont move very fast, and will run hotter than a Clan mech. To which the answer is to use a big Clan XL engine that goes 87kph with speed tweak to close distance, so that the lighter weapons and more heatsinks let you overcome the range disadvantage.

[Dr Marie Delacroix]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

....
Now your telling me that IS had almost 1300 more players and did almost 10 million less damage? And don't go into that teamwork using comms crap because even if the Clan players were better (highly doubtful) the damage difference is still WAY off.
...

The dropships did that 10 million damage and it's not reflected in the stats

[demoyn]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

Which mechs are these? I want to know the build that you think the Clans cannot match in Alpha / Damage / Range / Speed.

The problem with your argument (or, more specifically with the defense to the argument) is that none of the best Clan mechs are the same tonnage and role of any of the best Inner Sphere mechs, so it's really hard to make a direct comparison.

Using the competitive list on Metamechs as a generalized build guide (because we could discuss tweaks all day long to counter ANY argument), the only time two mechs match up with tonnage, range, and role are the UAC 20, 4 ERML HBR and the 1 LPL, 6 MPL TDR-5SS.

The HBR has a faster engine, 1 more damage on the alpha, and ECM. The TDR has a tad bit more DPS, a little more range harass, STD engine, and more armor / structure.

Point being, if you stop comparing apples and oranges you'd realize that the balance is generally close enough that mech selection doesn't come down to what's more OP; it comes down to what fits the pilot's playstyle better.

[Adamski]

Really?

ACH = SDR
SCR = GRF / SHD / WVR / KTO / etc
EBJ = TDR / JM6
TBR = BL-KNT / OR1
WHK = STK / BLR
DWF = AS7 / KGC

Now that the IIC mechs are released, you have a 35t and a 50t as well. The only mech that doesn't have an easy 1:1 tonnage equivalent is the 45t Blackjack trying to match with a 45t SHC (one is designed as a brawler, the other as a hyper mobile harass)

[W00DSTER]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

If this isn't hard date proof then I don't know what is....


The IS had more players than the Clan and yet the Clan out damaged the IS by several million... That just doesn't seem right. And before the white knights go on parade here I want to remind you that both sides have new players no just the IS. The stats don't lie. Someone is using OP mechs and weapons.... just saying



Total IS Players: 7929 (1275 more players)

Total Clan Players: 6654



Total Damage Done by IS Mechs: 94238853 (9,759,248 less damage)
Total Damage Done by Clan Mechs: 103998101

Now your telling me that IS had almost 1300 more players and did almost 10 million less damage? And don't go into that teamwork using comms crap because even if the Clan players were better (highly doubtful) the damage difference is still WAY off.

Parade away white knights.

does that count the damage to the turrets cannon and the power grids??

[STEF_]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 12:38 PM, said:

Really?

ACH = SDR
SCR = GRF / SHD / WVR / KTO / etc
EBJ = TDR / JM6
TBR = BL-KNT / OR1
WHK = STK / BLR
DWF = AS7 / KGC

Really?
Ok, so thanks to this equations I have no doubts you are trolling

[Tesunie]

A few problems I see with the OP post.
1. There are the same number of mechs on each side of a match. Having more players on a team doesn't mean each player did less damage. Just means that IS had longer weight times.

2. Clans had more teams/units running, as provided with second set of data posted by PGI.

3. Clan weapons tend to deal more damage, in skilled hands. IS have quirks to counter that, many in small health quirks. This could be another reason why Clans did more damage than IS. (Did they release number of destroyed mechs? Then you could do damage per kill and that might solve this question.) Also consider that IS mechs with XL engines tend to also die easier, which can be a counter point to this as well. (AKA: Meaning that Clan weapons deal more spread damage, making their kills less efficient.)

4. Of a minor point, but the Clans did end up having most of the more competitive teams on their side. This means that they had more skilled players on average.

5. More players dropped on IS side, and were probably more PUGs than teams. This made the IS possibly a bit more disorganized.

6. I would also like to note that Clan players also dealt more team damage than IS players did. This probably supports a theory of damage spread accounting for more damage overall on the Clans side.


Are Clan mechs still strong? Yes. But I do feel that PGI's latest balance pass helped to even out the battlefield.