78 replies to this topic

[Kyynele]

MarsThunder, on 15 December 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

Jade Falcon units sorted by average score per match.

Top 5 best Jade Falcon units:
1. EmpyreaL
2. White Death Mercenary Company
3. Black Spikes
4. Kell's Commandos
5. Clan Ice Phoenix

Statistics mean more when you actually know the context.

I know WDMC mostly had a single group of 4-6 players playing the event, and it's much easier to get high match scores when 50-66% of your team doesn't do much in the matches.

If you have a 12-man of good players, the average match score will inevitably go down, because there are only a finite amount of enemies to kill and damage to deal. Also because some of you are bound to die, and the stupid score algorithm still suggests that not losing mechs is infinitely more valuable than actually doing stuff.

[Stahlherz]

@Shadey99

Most red teams we encounter never even see our third wave.

Don't want to be misunderstood here. We recognize a red teams' abilities to hold their own and offering a delightful and challenging match.

Edited by Stahlherz, 15 December 2015 - 10:45 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

also I miss this 95% ratio FRR awesomeone unit as some of their forum warriors claimed. Guess they were just a bunch of loud mouths

Not sure what this is about, but...what?

I see this sort of thing now and again from more competitive players asserting that FRR players talk smack about how great we are. Yet, I've never seen this behavior in the forums or in game. While there may be a couple of supposedly competitive groups in the FRR (though I cannot confirm this), all of the groups regularly dropping on the FRR TS hub have no pretense about being competitive, but rather play the game for personal enjoyment (i.e. "for fun"). I have seen outsiders come in and talk smack about how we may suck for some reason and then FRR folks get defensive, but I have never encountered -in the forums or in the game- FRR players bragging about their awesomeness or win ratios. Sure we don't like it when people say we suck, but that is hardly being a "loud mouth".

The only things most of us might carry on about is our willingness to play with anyone, regardless of skill (rarely do our drop groups comprise a single unit and often if not always they contain players still learning the game). Some might "brag" about our down right goofy behavior in game. And I confess, there are those who will tout their talent at being able to play the game (at least adequately) despite being toasted and/or drunk and/or otherwise chemically impaired.

So Lily, if indeed you are encountering people from the FRR bragging about a "95% ratio" (whatever that means), you should perhaps clarify that they aren't simply exaggerating the frequency that they play inebriated or some other percentage more relevant to an FRR player. For I can near guarantee they are not referring to their win percentage or some other try-hard statistic.

-Bud

[Kinski Orlawisch]

We changed shortly before the Event from IS to Clan and it was damed hard. The 48:0 stomps we gave the Clans had been not possibel against the IS. After a while ...we did we ll again and then there came the next Clan nerf.
Sorry to say that, but IS IS easy mode compared to Clans. Even winning against a pug Team was sometimes hard work.

[MarsThunder]

Kyynele, on 15 December 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

... it's much easier to get high match scores when 50-66% of your team doesn't do much in the matches.

And much much easier just to lose )
Actually it depends on enemy team.

[Khereg]

Tarogato, on 15 December 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Stats in spreadsheet form!
- All factions combined into one table
- Multiple tables sorted by each criteria
- Extra critieria (WLR, average match score, and more)
- PRETTY COLOURS

----> https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

You clearly have more free time than me, Taro.

God bless you.

[Desintegrator]

Great stats - Thanks !

[Sereglach]

Khereg, on 15 December 2015 - 12:19 AM, said:

Eh? That 88% win rate was good for 5th overall, after only KCom, EmP, S RS, and BMMU. Given how large we are, does that not make it even more impressive?

Not saying it wasn't respectable win rate. However, it's a unit of ~500 people when less than half the unit participated. It's also still sheer volume of matches that makes the 88% win rate better than Kell's Commandos nearly flawless win rate.

[Shadey99]

S C A R, on 15 December 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

Shadey99, I like your analysis. Sometimes attack is the best defence. We definitely utilise the speed and positioning.

So I've seen.

I personally played almost 50 games during the event and you guys were one of the hardest to deal with. I think the only worse game in terms of ability to win the match was up against 228 and it was Counter Attack (which is one of the hardest modes anyways), but they pushed onto us and as 12 almost random Davion players even with TS the constant push from them hurt and we broke. Well I didn't, I kept hounding them in return... But 1 against 12 is never good odds.

Stahlherz, on 15 December 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

@Shadey99

Most red teams we encounter never even see our third wave.

I guess I had good teams then when we played you guys. Both matches we got to wave 3 and then we were run over in a gen/omega push. Both matches were Defense for us.

The first match was about 8 of us Lemmings (SLDS) against I think a 10 man KCom on the first night. We were up on kills even at the end, but like I said we had been damaged to much to take the push on the third wave.

The second was a far more mixed group with I think 2 or 3 of my unit and the rest from other units. The exact same circumstances, where we held a solid defense, but ended wave 2 to badly damaged for a third wave. The DC got a bit mad at me when I said after that we were just to badly damaged and should have pushed forward to have fresh mechs. My Mauler MAL-1P for instance had no torso armor left and no AC ammo, but the order was to stay and defend so I did. His complaint was he couldn't no how bad off we were, but he didn't really let us tell him as he called for us to reform.

I recall those games very well as they were both frustrating and yet good matches.

[Svarn Lornon]

Oh, I totally missed the original post and just saw this now. Sorry about it. Ok, you are probably right: it means more drops for everyone on the clan side, but this does in fact include the good units
Let me ask this way: what was you longest wait time during the event for a match? Ours was 20-30 minutes. And I think I never saw the clan queue braking the 20.
So while we got 1 match in 1 hour a clan group could do 2 matches, if they rush the objectives (an option we didn't have) probably even 3. Texhnolyze wrote he had 72 matches, S C A R had 58... to reach these kind of numbers we would have to take drugs so that we could play for 2-3 days without break.

Khereg, on 15 December 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

He's saying the extra players on the IS side were bads occupying queue space, getting in the way of the gudz dropping against the clan gudz.

I don't entirely buy it.

[Stahlherz]

Shadey99, on 15 December 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I recall those games very well as they were both frustrating and yet good matches.

Glad to hear you remember those as good matches.

[Jugger Grimrod]

If you are a solo player, you don't have a dog in this fight. If you are a member of a Team currently whining about the size of larger Teams in the game - please, be quiet. Team size and membership are a result of too many variables to list in one breath: faction, purpose, theme, social, competitive, tactics, strategies.... Do not limit other players' freedom to build, or be a member of, as large a Team as they can dream up and support. Many people dedicate countless hours, outside of their RLs, to build these Teams into working groups of MWO players that care about the game, its development, and each other... even those 'other' Teams we like to peck fights with (I'm looking at you TCAF )!

My advice to smaller Teams - Dream BIG! Work HARD! Be FAIR! Fight HONORABLY! Open your doors to train and teach new players to become Mechwarriors in the tradition of your Team and instill a little pride! Remember... Team Tags should be earned - not given away to fill a roster.

Edited by Jugger Grimrod, 22 May 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[Kwea]

Carl, on 14 December 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

Does the amount of matches played per unit include people within the unit that may have done solo drops?

Yes. If you are tagged and drop it counted. FM only had 11 people total dropping and we usually only had 5-6 playing together but our matches still counted.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:

KCM had more deciding factor than SWOL. they dropped in 300 less matches yet won a lot more. And this still with only half the amount of players participating. So how and why is anthign wrong with SWOL having those 503 members?

you guys claim skill was not involved, yet just size matters? NO its wrong, 12DG had a lot more active players, yet not even more drops. The argument is just nto reflectign the truth. It is people who have better skills and a just higher amount of time to spent for MWO getting a bit salty for their uneven higher amount for personal time spent in CW not getting their epeen stroked as much as they wish.



its a community goal, its not PVP its RVR setting and no matter what your skill is if the other faction outnoumbered you you will have issues regardless of skill. CW is not PVP, its RVR. And you are not right, in CW you need "every hour" because every win counts and when you play 15 games daily its a difference compared to only 2 games daily. Yes youc an as you said "compete" but only in the one battle you dropped, but not in the whole CW setup where just numbers of drops matter. AND!!!! behind those numbers no one asks if 1700 drops were done by 100 members or just 50. All that matters is racking up as much wins as possible in time X. And when you limit the membercound of units, all you can influence is win ratio and "drop count" which then does lead to maximum no-lifing high skill units = winning cw. This is nto much more fair, its just differently unfair.
Even if you win 100% in your 100 man unit, if you drop only once a day you will never get something comapred to a 20 man unit making 20 games each day having 70% win ratio. Unit size is NOT related to drop quantity as these statistics have shown. Just take these stats and calcuate the drops/active members the unit had in CW. Unit size only matters if the dropquality AND and dropquantity is equal amongst the units. But this is not the case as the statistics show.

why is it even wrong that a unit has 53 members as the SWOL's when actually only 103 participated? Why should they not allow to exist this way compared to a unit having 110 members where 103 participated? What is the reason to spilit such a units community?

This is a community faction based war mode, if you do not build a mode involving everyone you will play it woth your 1% of competitive palyer distributed to those 10 factions. GL with your emptymode then.
I see all those competitive gamers obviously catering their very own needs, and for this they would be willing to sacrifice an entire game mode for the community? You can't be seriously that egoistic.

Ug, I shall actually lower myself to posting on these forums. >.> I feel so dirty.

Every unit had different objectives in this tournament. SWOL viewed it as a great chance to get 50+ new guys playing together and learning with a few vets here and their to provide guidance. Our veterans earned their points and simply flipped to their alt IS accounts or just played pub games. I personally only led around 4 drops. My co-galaxy commander KingUber only played a couple games and similar Lucid I don't even think finished the tournament.

It was our new guys that stepped up and fought in this grueling escapade. Most of our vets are so sick of CW and these sorts of tournaments we just play when we feel. Hell half of us didn't even play CW and just goofed around in pub games.

Along with CWI we hired MS. For SWOL it was simply because we really like playing with MS; most of us couldn't care less about who actually won the planet as the whole thing was pretty random and settled in the very end. There was no "grand" honor at stake for us.

In short, units should stop stroking their egos over a stupid CW event. Each unit has different objectives; SWOL went into this to have fun, get our new guys a bunch of experience, and stop playing after we had our fill and got our prizes. Playing like crazy in these things just makes you burnt out while accomplishing nothing.

Carry on forum warriors. o7

[Pat Kell]

Lily, I want to apologize if I offended you. I reread my post and realized it could have been read wrong. You make some good points and I want to make it perfectly clear that I have NO problem whatsoever with MS, 228 or any other large group, and I would be totally against putting a cap on the size of any unit. We all make choices and if those choices make you suffer in some way during this game, then that is your choice. Other people should not be made to suffer because of the choice you make to not join a big unit. These guys have managed to form a group that can affect the balance of power when it comes to map scale tactics and their ability to take planets is unquestioned. Their win rate of 88% was much higher then I expected considering that they do take any many different skill levels and try to train them up. I think all of these units should be commended for these types of activities. Myself and the other founders of KCom have all played this game since near the beginning and we have all been through units that took this approach. After a while it just got a little frustrating and we decided to try something different and KCom was the result.

While MS, 228 and other large units use numbers and a large degree of skill and leadership to both win battles and take planets, KCom has focused on almost solely getting a group of guys together who could trust each other and play well together. While we are capable of taking planets, often times out attempts are thwarted simply due to a lack of numbers. We are ok with this though as our primary goal is to have fun and play well in this game. If the end result is that we get to get our name on a planet, great (persistence was the first planet we ever took and it was after like a week long siege that was just frustrating as hell but totally worth it in the end) but if we don't get in, not a big deal.

Most of KCom are what I would consider casual players. I wouldn't characterize often we play in the same way you do as we all have jobs to my knowledge and some of us only come out of retirement during events like this for the laughs. While we are serious about winning, we are probably one of least controlled units that I know of. We don't have required drop decks although we certainly share builds that work for us, we have loose command structures meaning our comms can be hectic sometimes and typically the calls are, "all right gate, push in hard to the left when it's open...and try to focus targets." We have all just played together for so long that a lot of times, structures calls and target calling are just unnecessary.

In short, I do not favor group size caps as I think it hurts a vital aspect of this game which is large scale strategy and I think many units did well but claiming that it was easier for us because we were a small unit is wrong. I played in many games that were pretty close, games that could have went poorly for us if we hadn't rallied near the end and pull the victory out.

Edited by Pat Kell, 16 December 2015 - 02:32 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Pat Kell, on 16 December 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

While we are serious about winning, we are probably one of least controlled units that I know of. We don't have required drop decks although we certainly share builds that work for us, we have loose command structures meaning our comms can be hectic sometimes and typically the calls are, "all right gate, push in hard to the left when it's open...and try to focus targets." We have all just played together for so long that a lot of times, structures calls and target calling are just unnecessary.

This is almost exactly how BMMU operates as well

[Lily from animove]

Blueduck, on 15 December 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

In short, units should stop stroking their egos over a stupid CW event. Each unit has different objectives; SWOL went into this to have fun, get our new guys a bunch of experience, and stop playing after we had our fill and got our prizes. Playing like crazy in these things just makes you burnt out while accomplishing nothing.

Carry on forum warriors. o7

yes but look at what soem units claim how CW shoudl be, they would kill the entire aspect of people just palying together for fun by limiting units size and making their own needs based new criterias. Can this be sense of a Community war? I doubt it.

Bud Crue, on 15 December 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Not sure what this is about, but...what?

So Lily, if indeed you are encountering people from the FRR bragging about a "95% ratio" (whatever that means), you should perhaps clarify that they aren't simply exaggerating the frequency that they play inebriated or some other percentage more relevant to an FRR player. For I can near guarantee they are not referring to their win percentage or some other try-hard statistic.

-Bud

It is about some people that in another threat calling something broken the way it is, and how they wanted more of the cake because their unit during the event had 95% winratio. Which I doubt because not such a unit is seen here.

Thats just what it was about. Nothign about FRR in general. Just about some individual loud mouths bragging over their own exaggerated performance which by facts never happened.

[Bud Crue]

Thanks for the clarification Lily. Would hate for a forum post to lead to a misunderstanding .

[William Slayer]

How much REAL time did each of you spend playing? I personally managed 22 drops in about 17 1\2 hours of play time over the course of the event.

This bit of information is very much a clue to the secret of Clan Wolfs success in the tournament.

Mercstar put up monster numbers. They put in almost 4500 drops just by themselves. My unit got about 1600 drops but with time in between due to the que. Had each of my guys gotten instant turn around on matches, I could see us getting another 10 drops each in the same time we spent playing. That would have given us closers to 3000 drops as a unit!

Edited by William Slayer, 23 December 2015 - 02:32 AM.