122 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Alistair Winter, on 16 December 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Have you tried using this?

Lostech.

Memory core probably situated in .....
....planet Bz@#òZzzxxx....x..x..x

Damn! Lost contact!....

Help PGI! HEEELP!

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 17 December 2015 - 05:23 AM, said:

LoL I was thinking pretty much this in ever solo drop I've taken part in since the steam intro.

You all suck, you should have done this, has been a foot note of every match I've been in, and yet none of these armchair heroes were willing to lead during the match.

Not like world of Tanks has any better organisation in pug drops ...

THIS, exactly.

HAd a few drops last night that the armchair generals started in IMMEDIATELY... and I told them from the get go to put up or shut up.... if they were going to run their mouths, at least use them to be part of the solution, not the problem. IF, after trying to herd cats, the puggies still don't listen, THEN you have a legit cause to complain. But when you do nothing to lead yourself? STFU.

[xWiredx]

All I see in OP's posts is "I blame everybody other than myself".

So, you know, there's that.

OP says the game needs better tools? We have VOIP, we have color-coded text chat, we have a battlegrid where you can assume command of a lance or the whole team and issue orders... Most games have one or two of those, rarely all 3. Much like a commander on a battlefield, you can point at a spot on the map AND yell about it AND/OR reinforce that in writing.

If they choose not to follow, maybe you're just the kind of guy over voip/chat that people don't really take to. Maybe you should just follow them instead and shoot at what they shoot at.

We've seen this 'blame everybody but me' thing a lot, but it doesn't hold up. We know teamwork exists and is regularly utilized even by pugs. Don't like it? Join a unit and be part of the same team all the time. That will ensure you constantly have that teamwork that you say doesn't exist.

[Bishop Steiner]

xWiredx, on 17 December 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

If they choose not to follow, maybe you're just the kind of guy over voip/chat that people don't really take to. Maybe you should just follow them instead and shoot at what they shoot at.

Gee, you mean calling people "effing idiots" and telling them "to get their [kitty] [butts] out in front" doesn't inspire most people to follow?

Who'da thunk?

[Vaegir Raiden]

Quote

All I see in OP's posts is "I blame everybody other than myself".

WHY do we have always these kind of guys thinks i blame others?

Everybody does it when you keep getting rolled..figures

SOMETIMES its a HUNDRED PERCENT the team to blame if you get rolled by a NASCAR...regardless of any peformance....

Edited by Vaegir Raiden, 17 December 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Kwea]

Because that's all you have done so far in this thread.

Use VOIP, but don't yell or expect PUGS to listen en masse. Join a team. Show your tier if you try to use it to justify your experience (you brought it up, not others).

Some pretty good advice right there, for starters. I'd add look up your builds. You don't have to be a meta ***** to at least know the meta, notice when it changes, and learn to play with it if not follow it. Have a decent guide to know what a good starting score is.....and don't brag about a score less than 1000, for heaven's sake. 250 a mech is not even carrying your own weight.

Damage doesn't tell the whole story....I have a guy in a CW mach do 3400, but he was a liability, not an asset.....hanging back, hoarding mechs, and not pushing with the group. But damage IS at least one easy to see metric to prove how you do over time. It may not tell you much short term, but over 30-40 matches you can see trends.


For the record, I am a upper tier 2 level player - you can see my number under my name.....and I am not happy if I do less than 1500 damage. With a better team you do less damage but win more. I regularly do over 2000 damage in pug matches and lose, but do 1500-1900 with my team and we win more than twice as often.

Edited by Kwea, 19 December 2015 - 08:32 PM.

[Palor]

There are times when no amount of teamwork can help you win when you have players running a Kingcrab with machine guns and SPL's trying to snipe enemies from 500m.

[Unreliable Mercenary]

Perhaps you should join a unit?

[Shadow 6590]

I have seen several games today where people took charge and we worked as a team. Granted I am only a tier 4. I won more than I lost and all of the wins were because someone took charge and called targets, As well as lead. I think teamwork is still in the game.

Edited by Shadow 6590, 19 December 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[JohnRoosevelt]

Shadow 6590, on 19 December 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

I have seen several games today where people took charge and we worked as a team. Granted I am only a tier 4. I won more than I lost and all of the wins were because someone took charge and called targets, As well as lead. I think teamwork is still in the game.

I agree teamwork is there, I just had a faction defense battle where we worked as a team and kicked serious tail. It was my best battle ever with 834 damage between two mechs.

[Yosharian]

Vaegir Raiden, on 16 December 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

WORST game ever. How is SOLO QUE even fun!!

I am TIER 2 and i see constant dumb people everywere...one team gets rolled and everybody just quits when they die

This is no game for teamwork. The players here are bad at attempting TEAMWORK

Worst game ever?

So it's worse than Ride to Hell: Retribution?

[Jun Watarase]

Owen Miller, on 19 December 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

Perhaps you should join a unit?

Funny thing is, i just finished a game where despite half of our team being in units, they refused to communicate with the rest of the team and just kept doing whatever they wanted. At one point we had half the team at one gate, and at least 4 guys decided to go to another gate without telling anyone. Not hard to figure out what happened next.

And in the 3rd wave, we had people at all 3 gates because again, no communication. And for the last wave, it looked like some guys decided to go for the gens without telling anyone, while the rest were kind of milling around.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

UnnamedBOY, on 16 December 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

I saw an AS7 with 4 LRM5s today...

Mine has 4 10s but then I also usually pull 800 damage and 2-4 kills too

When if I use direct fire i get half that and no kills lol

Cathy, on 17 December 2015 - 05:23 AM, said:

LoL I was thinking pretty much this in ever solo drop I've taken part in since the steam intro.

You all suck, you should have done this, has been a foot note of every match I've been in, and yet none of these armchair heroes were willing to lead during the match.

Not like world of Tanks has any better organisation in pug drops ...

I like it when those guys are the first ones dead

[Uncle Totty]

Alistair Winter, on 17 December 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

Sorry, I was just posting it as a joke. It was a fan-made mock-up of a solution that would have improved teamwork in MWO immensely.

We're probably not getting it.

But we are getting more mechs and cockpit items.

How? Wont people just ignore it like they do my voice?

[nitra]

Teamwork, how i despise those who want all of us to play as a team .

we need to team up !! we need to go right, we need to go left, we need to sit back and hold, SCREW this we, malarkey.

and just get out their go where you need to be which is in the face of the enemy, preferably taken an aggressive position on the field of battle causing at least 2 other mechs greif because you are using your weapons against the enemy .!!

tired of this team play wait for the push, or sit and hold, stick together mentality that has settled into this player base . games have become such a custer muck that some games you spend more time trying not to shoot your team instead of shooting the enemy. so no dont stick together. SPREAD THE GAWD FREAKING OBAMA OUT. everyone complains the map are to small well if you would play the damn maps instead of all 12 mechs huddled in a ball behind a wall 4 squares away from your starting point you might just find, lo and behold there is actually more map to play!! WOW !! (and thats a pro tip by the way)

as for protecting the assaults ... there is only 1 maybe 2 maps where this is necessary otherwise the assaults can get off their keisters and GOOOOOOO!!!! already . i dont know how many games it has been that i am the lone assault out scouting ahead of the rest of the damn team because of all of the above.

half the team still sitting at base the other team going to protect the assults i left behind (because i pressed my w key) . you ever wonder why the assullts need protecting ?? because they were holed up in a ball behind a wall 4 spaces away from their starting point when they encountered the first lance of enemy mechs, which should have never happened in the fist place if you was spread out aggressively, and holding land on the battlefield. that lance would have undergone incoming fire and most likely would have run to cover instead to the back corner of the map. and even if they some how do make it to the back corner of the map they should only find nada zipo no enchilada instead of 2 or 3 sleepy arse assaults poking along admiring the textures of the wall in front of them . ( and you know what is really loathsome .... is that most likely one of those assaults were cored form behind which absolutely inexcusable)


so stop trying to play like a team ... and and go out their and try to kill at least 2 or more mechs a game dont stick together in a ball dont hide behind walls and above all else GOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get out of those starting points and get those weapons hot and start hammering the enemy . because if you play alike and play aggressively you dont need no freaking team with mr mumbles mumbling some kind of command about patience or some other silly drivel into that piece of junk microphone of theirs. you just need 2 things to be able to aim and to beable to move . with those 2 time tested abilities you to can become team independent and have a good game.

[nightstalkker]

Vaegir Raiden, on 16 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

i took 4 uavs in a single match today because nodoby bothered it and we still lost.

I don't know what game your playing but when can any mech take 4 uav's In a solo game?

Edited by nightstalkker, 20 December 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[Sjorpha]

nightstalkker, on 20 December 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

I don't know what game your playing but when can any mech take 4 uav's In a solo game?

He means he took down 4 enemy UAVs.

[Clownwarlord]

UnnamedBOY, on 16 December 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

I saw an AS7 with 4 LRM5s today...

Hey don't judge me that I use lrms to put enemy mechs into cover so I can get closer to use my medium lasers and AC20.

Enemy doesn't know how many missiles are coming at them when Betty sounds off, until they are hit with them.

[Funkmaster Rick]

Shout-out to Johnny Z for dropping the truth-bombs back on page three. It's been a while since I played, but I'm glad to see you're still teaching the scrubs how the world works.

So, teamwork. Let's analyze the various ways in which teamwork can manifest itself on the battlefield. Basically, how to communicate, and what to communicate.

Firstly, there's the VoiP. This game should have had it from the get-go, but you can't sell a VoiP feature for twenty bucks, so it took a long while for that to make it into the game. And now that it's here, there's a fairly simple mute button that just turns it off. It's a totally necessary button, because personality disorders exist, and are over-represented on the internets. But in any case, there's a reasonable chance that, regardless of your tier or professionalism, some people on your team will simply be completely unable to hear your cunning strategies and sure-fire plans, leaving a portion of your team confused and unresponsive - though there are exceptions.

Text chat. Completely paralyzes you as a player while you're typing. Only useful from safety. You can get out a basic concept or two at the start of the match with this, set your team up for a general strategy or positional game, but when the chips are down and you need to turn the tables around, this option is completely useless.

Gamesense. This sounds stupid, but gamesense is communication on a level so fundamental you don't even notice it. Let me give a basic example. Say there's another LRM-boat that doesn't like projectile weapons because of the loud noises, and won't take energy weapons because they're bad for the environment or something. You want this LRM boat to stop cowering behind rocks, grab a high position, and start raining vague annoyance down upon your foes. You could type it to him, but you might get critted by some scrub poptart. You could send it to him in VoiP, but he's probably got that turned off, and even if it's on there's a chance you don't share a common language. What do you do? You move yourself into a position that covers his advance to this fabled high ground.

That's communication. You are communicating intent, even if it's vague, but most importantly you're letting him know you've got his back. By standing in the right place, you can effectively say, "Scrote, there's some sweet, sweet cheeba on top of this hill, why don't you go snag us some, and, like, kill some baddies while you're at it? I'll keep a lookout, brohemoth." And all that just by standing somewhere.

By my reckoning, the most effective form of communication in this game is not communicating by traditional means. How do you explain the concept of sharing damage to a nub? Do you launch into a lengthy lecture? Nah, that's silly. You just step out there and start tanking damage for him. Hopefully he gets the message. Language is a tool, but plenty of animals get along fine in the wild without it, often showing understanding of advanced concepts of teamwork. Like Johnny Z said, a bunch of hot air is not teamwork.

'Mechwarrior has never been n00b-friendly game. To actually pilot a 'mech well, you have to understand how battle actually works. You can't just walk out there in a big murder-machine and stomp around, you have to understand the murder-machines purpose, how it works, why it was built, and in what situations it's designed to work. If you want to teach these concepts to newer players, you can only do it by being a good example.

Which brings me to the real point of my post: almost nobody knows how to play this game. Even in the higher tiers, I'd estimate that only something like 10% of players actually have an understanding of how warfare works, which means less than a tenth of this game's population is mentally prepared to play this game and play it well. This absolutely and totally dictates how you have to lead if you want to be a leader. You are NOT leading a group of crack black-ops elites with years of training, exemplary discipline, and the willingness and ability to implicitly trust the guy in the foxhole next to him.

No, you're that guy in the 500-year-old bucket of rust and saggy myomers who was dragged from his retirement and alcoholism to lead a last stand with a rag-tag bunch of misfits dragged from the local prison, thrown into giant murder robots with little or no training, with few social connections to the locals they're meant to be defending, no discipline, no desire beyond 'survive for a little longer,' and you're charged to defend the city at all costs with no real defensive fortifications, no support, and just some vague comments about the glory of the empire to keep you going in your darkest moments. Nobody is coming to save you, and just about everything moving on the horizon wants to kill you.

Immerse yourself in that feeling for a few minutes, and you'll start to realize how you must lead PUGs. You don't do it with clever strategies and complicated manoeuvres. You lead with emotion and swagger. You keep your tactical advice simple and concise. You use buzzwords people might know from the movies they grew up watching.

"They're coming around the corner, get a firing line ready!"
"Our rearguard is dying, we need to turn and fight, like men!"
"Stop crying and kill some robots!"

You get on the VoiP at the start of the match, proclaim your awesomeness, and then let people know they can be as ludicrously awesome as you if they only follow your words and actions. AS7s aside, these 'mechs are faceless machines. Stomping around with a bunch of faceless machines just makes people feel all alone, like they'll get no help. You need to inject personality into the game to capture the hearts of the dozen-less-one people you've just been randomly assigned to lead and protect. Rattle their cages and knock them out of their stupor if you want them to do things for you. If you want them to be a team, they're going to need not just a leader, but a reason to follow that leader.

So pick yourself a better name, get in-character, and start playing this game like it's actually set in the BattleTech universe. Mire yourself in the hopelessness so you might be able to understand the people you're grouped with. Talk like a radio personality, fight like you're suicidal and angry. And above all, don't be boring! OP, if you're seeing dumb people everywhere, it's because you're not interested in trying to understand their point of view or frame of mind. High-school teen-angst philosophy aside, the actual number of dumb people in the world is pretty damn low. The number of dumb people who managed to install MWO and get into a game of it is probably lower yet. If you look around and see nothing but idiots, that's a personal problem. You're not going to change your worldview overnight, so there's no point telling you anything but this: learn to lead idiots! The key to happiness in life is learning to work with the tools you have. If there's no teamwork, create it - you've certainly got all the tools necessary!

If you want to be a badass, you have to start by being a badass. Think about it, you'll get what I'm saying one day.



PS: This clearly only applies to PUGs. This style of leadership is actually kind of detrimental to all other styles of play. Don't be stupid. Fight according to your battleground.

[Jun Watarase]

Its great to see that the terms "scrub" and "playing to win" are still being horribly misused in MWO. Keep up the good work guys!



Now excuse me while i go beat up 5 year old scrubs at the playground. Gotta fulfill my playing to win quota for the day.