227 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

RussianWolf, on 22 December 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

The role of a Direwolf in a nascar is simple. Find a strategic point and face the enemy, Destroy the first mech that rounds the corner and make anything that peaks regret it until your guys plow up their rear ends. Dires have the firepower to pull it off in most circumstances. But you have to pick the right place.

I mastered all my Dires in Solo queue.

A Dire isn't hard to play in nascar. Stock Urbies..... now THEY are hard mode.

I kinda feel bad saying this, but... you're tier 5. It's probable that the way you're able to play a Dire isn't the way Bishop can play his. Not a reflection of skill, just that you're playing in different environments a lot of the time.

Just sayin'.

Edited by Yosharian, 22 December 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[Roadkill]

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

Respawns on assault and conquest would just be the coup de grace for those game modes as far as I am concerned.

I do agree with this - Assault and Conquest are basically no-respawn modes by design. But Skirmish is a more balanced mode and can be fun either way. Based on past games, it's more popular with respawn on.

[1453 R]

Mystere, on 22 December 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

But it's not really getting scrapped. It's getting a make-up, lipstick, glamorous hairdo, and a custom-fit dress all done by professionals.

Except your specific focus is on trying to force the majority of players into Commodity Warfare. Which, as any Commodity Warfare enthusiast will tell you, is a game mode specifically designed for large, 100+ organized player-run units with strict schedules, training requirements, and other restrictions in place to ensure that every last single scrap of spontaneity, enjoyment, and fun is removed from the mode. Furthermore, the same CW enthusiasts also hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE HATE H.A.T.E. any solo/pugger who decides to try and dip their toes into CW. As they will tell you, at great volume and with tremendous zeal and passion…: “Not in a unit? Join a unit. Don’t want to join a unit? G. T. F. O.”

I play MWO when I feel like it, not when my Regiment Commander™/Star Colonel™ tells me I need to. If, as you’ve described, the current solo/Puglandia queue is stripped out and replaced with ‘CW Training’ and ‘Crappy Solaris Knock-Off (Intended To Make People Want To Switch To CW)’…well, I’d unfortunately likely have to be done with MWO the same day that particular change went down.

I like the chaos of Pug Life. I like being able to drop in weird funky experimental machines I just feel like trying out and not caring if the other guys on my team are Disappoint in my choice of a non-optimized non-Metatinator. I like being able to drop with a buddy or two in group mode without the incredible hassle of aligning factions, figuring out complementary drop decks (which is hard as most of my buddies don’t have enough of a stable built up to run a proper drop deck), then waiting an hour and a half for the planet selector to tell us where to go and wait an hour and a half to fight.

I really like knowing that when I kill someone they actually stay dead, and that dropping that enemy is in fact a benefit to my team instead of “Hey! You killed that guy! Now he’s back with a brand new ‘Mech with untouched armor and jam-packed ammo bins! Thanks a freaking ton, 1453!”

CW exists for people who hate the regular queue. The converse, then, is that the regular queue exists for people who hate CW. Why, exactly, should we upset that state of affairs?

Edited by 1453 R, 22 December 2015 - 01:01 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yosharian, on 22 December 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

I kinda feel bad saying this, but... you're tier 5. It's probable that the way you're able to play a Dire isn't the way Bishop can play his.

Just sayin'.

While tiers themselves are largely just a glorified XP bar, being a 5 means never having to face 1 or more Comp Level players. So yeah, it's does have an impact.

[Khobai]

Quote

Either way respawning is bad regardless of previous games having it.

except its not bad. respawning fixes virtually every problem the game has. it balances light mechs vs heavier mechs, it makes disconnecters/teamkillers/badplayers less likely to ruin a game, it gets rid of negative behaviors like deathballing/nascaring/etc..., it gives players more freedom to play how they want so the game doesnt fall into repetitive, boring patterns of play, etc...

and you cant even give a reason why you dont like it other than "its bad".

especially since adding respawn gamemodes doesnt mean removing one-life gamemodes. both can exist at the same time. youd still have the option to play your awful one-life gamemodes, but people who hate it would have another alternative.

Quote

Respawns on assault and conquest would just be the coup de grace for those game modes as far as I am concerned.

because all you want to play is skirmish obviously. and you dont want anything added that makes those gamemodes less like skirmish.

but the reality is assault and conquest are idiotic gamemodes where the primary objectives are entirely pointless because its way easier just to skirmish the other team to death.

the whole point of having different gamemodes is that theyre DIFFERENT. not all skirmish.

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[WarHippy]

Jman5, on 22 December 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

If you want to play solo queue, you need to learn to take care of your own business. In order to have success, you need to be an effective member of the team independent of what your teammates do because it's a PUG. If you can't or won't try to figure out ways to keep up, you can do the following:

1. Play group queue

2. Put in a bigger engine

3. Play a faster Assault

4. Play something other than an Assault

5. Figure out which game modes on which maps give have the toughest spawns for you and vote appropriately.

You don't play an urban mech if you struggle to get high matchscores. You don't play a direwolf if you struggle to keep up with the team. Instead of demanding that the world orbit around your playstyle, perhaps consider adjusting your playstyle to fit the world.

The underlined goes both ways. You can't reasonably expect everyone to have a mech as fast as the one you chose, or have the same game plan as you for that matter. Both sides of this argument need to pay closer attention to what the others are doing and adjust as needed. Running off and leaving an entire lance to die is not being an effective member of the team, nor is hand waving it off with an assertion they should have played a different mech to fit your play style.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

The underlined goes both ways. You can't reasonably expect everyone to have a mech as fast as the one you chose, or have the same game plan as you for that matter. Both sides of this argument need to pay closer attention to what the others are doing and adjust as needed. Running off and leaving an entire lance to die is not being an effective member of the team, nor is hand waving it off with an assertion they should have played a different mech to fit your play style.

needs of the wants of the many outweigh the wants of the few?

[C E Dwyer]

DjPush, on 22 December 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

FU! I'm in a 100 ton mech going 56Kph.

Don't pilot a Direwolf then, its called dire for a reason

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2015 - 12:38 PM, said:

Mind you... I don't agree with leaving the Fatties behind, either, but I there is a reason you don't see too many Sumo Wrestlers competing in track and field.

[1453 R]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

except [respawns are] not bad. it fixes basically every problem the game has.

and you cant even give a reason why you dont like it other than "its bad".

1453 R, on 22 December 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

I really like knowing that when I kill someone they actually stay dead, and that dropping that enemy is in fact a benefit to my team instead of “Hey! You killed that guy! Now he’s back with a brand new ‘Mech with untouched armor and jam-packed ammo bins! Thanks a freaking ton, 1453!”

Does that count as a reason?

Any mechanic in this game in which killing an enemy is, in fact, an act which is more beneficial to the enemy than to my own team is a mechanic which has no business being considered, let alone implemented.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

LOL!

Of course..Sumos are actually amazingly athletic... but speed and endurance sports aren't their forte!

[C E Dwyer]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

except its not bad. respawning fixes virtually every problem the game has.

and you cant even give a reason why you dont like it other than "its bad".

especially since adding respawn gamemodes doesnt mean removing one-life gamemodes. both can exist at the same time.



because all you want to play is skirmish obviously. and you dont want anything added that makes those gamemodes less like skirmish.

but the reality is assault and conquest are idiotic gamemodes where the primary objectives are entirely pointless because its way easier just to skirmish the other team to death.

the whole point of having different gamemodes is that theyre DIFFERENT. not all skirmish.

Wrong it just makes the game crap like all games with respawn are, CW's drop decks are tollerable because it has a weight limit and forces careful mech sellection and not endless clones of a Direwolf because someone can't pilot it correctly.

The tears people cry when a light mech caps the base in assault would debunk your claims about modes being all the same

Edited by Cathy, 22 December 2015 - 01:13 PM.

[WarHippy]

Roadkill, on 22 December 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

The game felt more like BattleTech because size mattered. In MWO, size can actually be a hindrance and that doesn't feel like BattleTech to me.

Well as you said everyone is welcome to their opinion, but for me respawning is pretty far off the mark with regard to feeling like Battletech.

[RussianWolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

While tiers themselves are largely just a glorified XP bar, being a 5 means never having to face 1 or more Comp Level players. So yeah, it's does have an impact.

I leveled Dires way before PSR was a thing, so nope.

[Khobai]

Quote

I really like knowing that when I kill someone they actually stay dead, and that dropping that enemy is in fact a benefit to my team instead of “Hey! You killed that guy! Now he’s back with a brand new ‘Mech with untouched armor and jam-packed ammo bins! Thanks a freaking ton, 1453!”

Except there would still be consequences to dying in a respawn gamemode. Teams would lose tickets equal to the tonnage of the destroyed mech. When a team runs out of tickets they would lose.

The main difference with a respawn gamemode is that completing the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE would matter more than simply killing the enemy team. Also by having respawns: disconnectors, teamkillers, rambo players, etc... couldn't completely ruin a game by effectively removing 1-2 mechs from their team. Furthermore, players would have way more freedom in how to play, because they wouldnt be petrified by the fear of permadeath, and wouldnt be forced to deathball/nascar with the rest of the team to stay alive.

Again all you seem to want to play is skirmish. You dont want to complete objectives. You just want to kill enemy mechs. Thats great for you. But I want more variation than that. No one wants to take your skirmish away. I just want more options besides skirmish.

Quote

Any mechanic in this game in which killing an enemy is, in fact, an act which is more beneficial to the enemy than to my own team is a mechanic which has no business being considered, let alone implemented

Again you obvously dont understand how ticket based respawn works. Dying is not more beneficial to the enemy because their team loses tickets equal to the mech's tonnage. The enemy also loses positioning since it would take a minute or so for the destroyed mech(s) to get back to the frontlines. Meanwhile your team can capitalize on that by getting ahead in the primary objective.

Quote

Wrong it just makes the game crap like all games with respawn are, CW's drop decks are tollerable because it has a weight limit and forces careful mech sellection and not endless clones of a Direwolf because someone can't pilot it correctly

um people wouldnt always choose clones of direwolves with respawns either. because a ticket based system would deduct tickets from your team equal to the tonnage of the mech. dying over and over in direwolves would run your team out of tickets very quickly. Also the objectives would be set up in such a way that you would need all four weight classes. if all you had was assaults you couldnt move from objective to objective quickly enough.

your whole opposition to respawns seems based on a flawed understanding of how respawns would be implemented.

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 22 December 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Any mechanic in this game in which killing an enemy is, in fact, an act which is more beneficial to the enemy than to my own team is a mechanic which has no business being considered, let alone implemented.

Done correctly (read: like past MW games), respawn is not one of those mechanics.

It isn't as simple as just turning on respawn. They'd have to introduce a scoring mechanism that took it into account. Neither match score nor PSR are sufficient; one or both would require modification.

[C E Dwyer]

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

They ran 50 meters in 8 seconds

100 meters in 16 seconds is still better than a lot of people could run it, that are mocking the sumo wrestlers

[Mystere]

1453 R, on 22 December 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Except your specific focus is on trying to force the majority of players into Commodity Warfare...

You are getting it all wrong. I am suggesting to get rid of all the filler game modes and make them either part of the Training Academy or Solaris environments with more purposeful and professional look-and-feel. New players can continue training. ESports folks get to compete with each other in a sports environment. And finally casuals can wander into any mode they like, including CW. All these imply having better game modes and other features.

At the same time, MWO will have a clearly-defined dichotomy between the lore and eSports sides of the game. There is nothing to lose and everything to be gained by the player base via this clear separation. Many of the problems plaguing this game is being caused by its currently schizophrenic nature.

And by the way, I drop only solo ... even in CW. So cut your tirade about solos being unwanted in CW as if it were the one true Word of Blake (). It is not my experience at all. Maybe it's you and not team-oriented solo players that are the problem.

[WarHippy]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

except its not bad. respawning fixes virtually every problem the game has. it balances light mechs vs heavier mechs, it makes disconnecters/teamkillers/badplayers less likely to ruin a game, it gets rid of negative behaviors like deathballing/nascaring/etc..., it gives players more freedom to play how they want so the game doesnt fall into repetitive, boring patterns of play, etc...

Those are all opinion of which I disagree with. Those problems do not get fixed, nor is a respawn system free of its own problems. In a ticket system like you described you still have bad players eating up resources at an alarming rate, you still have the potential for TKers, and deathballing/nascaring are still very much going to be a thing. Overwhelming with numbers is always going to be the most common tactic used as it is the easiest to do with minimal communication, and is only compounded by a respawn system. The games will still play out the same way over and over respawn or not.

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

and you cant even give a reason why you dont like it other than "its bad".

It breaks immersion, it lacks depth in tactics, and it creates mindless game play. All of those are things I have already listed as to why I don't like it beyond "its bad". Go reread my posts.

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

especially since adding respawn gamemodes doesnt mean removing one-life gamemodes. both can exist at the same time. youd still have the option to play your awful one-life gamemodes, but people who hate it would have another alternative.

As I have said repeatedly we already have that... CW is your respawn mode.

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

because all you want to play is skirmish obviously. and you dont want anything added that makes those gamemodes less like skirmish.

but the reality is assault and conquest are idiotic gamemodes where the primary objectives are entirely pointless because its way easier just to skirmish the other team to death.

the whole point of having different gamemodes is that theyre DIFFERENT. not all skirmish.

Actually if you go back and read some of my other posts I make it pretty clear that I hate skirmish. Skirmish is the entire reason I hate the voting system that PGI put in. I have long advocated for the objectives in assault and conquest to be made more desirable so that people actually go for those objectives as much as they try to slug it out. That can be done without respawns it just takes effort on the part of the devs and is something they seem to be unable or unwilling to do.

[Bishop Steiner]

RussianWolf, on 22 December 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

I leveled Dires way before PSR was a thing, so nope.

that also means you did it long enough ago to not know how they would feel in the current, post agility nerf world, to level up.