227 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

Morggo, on 22 December 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

(I've always thought this was sorta the root problem with puglandia.. everyone just goes with this thought instead of trying on-the-fly teamwork/organization. It DOES work... post after post you see comments around how just a tiny bit of voip or a DC calling, etc flips to a win. Just sayin', work together, yo, it's why they gave us voip )

Anyway, for my part 99% of the time I hit 'B', find the fatties, and point my lil' Jenner right for them. I don't like breaking the "keep with your lance" rule, but I find that Lights run a different rule and if not wolfpacking are okay to split and head for other lances *shrug*

Giving the heavy metal escort duty just makes plain sense to me. Besides, if you get them to the front lines in one piece, they'll start creating opportunities for me to start snacking on rear torsos..mmmmmmm

I'm for helping the big slow guys. I've done it.

Dire: "I need Help!"
*Dire gets rushed by 3 quick enemy mechs
Me: I'm coming
*I'm the only one who responds
*Dire destroyed before I get there
*3 enemy mechs pick me off because I'm alone
*Team now down by 2



So now, I look to see if other team mates start to respond before I go and get pulled away from my group. They probably do the same so sometimes no one responds. Big assault goes down. I have had succesful rescues and escorts, but it just seems so rare to work.

Even if a lance sticks together that is with the assault, I have seen that lance get ambushed by 2 lances of the enemy because they lagged behind and the rest of the team be indifferent to aid (possibly because they are taking pot shots at other enemies trying to secure their own kills).

Look, I'm for trying to get assistance from your team and it does work sometimes too. Thing is, I just wouldn't count on it. If you can't count on help, it might be better to run something quicker. If you want to be stubborn about it, run what you want but realize you might be in for a quick match.

I'm not condoning the practice, I'd rather it play out differently and more teamwork occur, I'm just being realistic. PUGlandia is a cruel place.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 December 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Assault mech are highly dependent on knowing where to position.

Except sometimes you get spawned in the absolute worst spot and theres nothing you can do it about it. You either get left behind and have to risk getting attacked by the enemy before meeting up with your team, or you have to backtrack so far to avoid the enemy that your team is dead by the time you get to the frontlines. To avoid that, slow assaults should always spawn closest to the middle. Again thats a nice easy stopgap measure until we can get some way better gamemodes with respawn.

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

To avoid that, slow assaults should always spawn closest to the middle.

I'm not against that. Even if the team decides to flank one way or another, the Assaults are in a good spot (middle) to go in any direction.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

what would fix this **** is if they added respawns to the game. the one-life gamemodes are the whole problem. they cause deathballing/nascaring/repetitive boring play. No one is willing to take risks or do anything differently because they only get one life. So the game ends up being repetitive and boring.

I don't quite understand why people act like total cowards in MWO. It's just a video game ...

Banzai!

Edited by Mystere, 22 December 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[Roadkill]

KingRock, on 22 December 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

In return for that lovely escort it's your responsibility to lead the charge and use that 200+ points of frontal armour to soak damage for your team, and return fire with as much ferocity as you can.

Terrible, horrible, bad idea. An assault that leads the charge dies in a heartbeat. They're too slow and too easy to focus fire.

It sounds strange, but it's best for lights and mediums to lead the charge with the heavies and assaults right behind them. That way the enemy wastes their shots trying to hit the lights and mediums and then the heavies and assaults can return fire before the enemy's weapons cycle.

The trick is that the assaults have to start moving first, then the lights and mediums pass them as they round the corner (or crest the hill, or whatever). Preferably while in the air so that half of the enemy Mechs point their guns up to try to shoot them.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't quite understand why people act like total cowards in MWO. It's just a video game ...

Who knows. All I know is people are terrified of dying which has evolved into deathballing for safety in numbers. And thats resulted in some really stagnant gameplay. Game is just boring now... it needs something drastic to shake it up like respawns.

Quote

Terrible, horrible, bad idea. An assault that leads the charge dies in a heartbeat. They're too slow and too easy to focus fire.

Yeah pretty much. Mobility is survivability in MWO, not armor. Which is complete the opposite of battletech. Assaults should be able to survive a lot more punishment than they do. Heavy mechs are outright better than Assaults at the moment because of their faster speed, smaller hitboxes, and ability to carry just as much firepower via laservomit.

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[Nightmare1]

When will these griefers like the OP learn to buy bigger engines? If you're going to Pug, then you do so knowing the Pugs are probably going to take off and leave you. Since an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, wouldn't it just be smarter to learn from your mistakes and use a faster Assault/bigger engine?

I mean, really, do you have to run that Dire Wolf or can you use the BattleMaster until your buddies log on and you can get a group going? Don't use Mechs that need a support group for Pugging because Pugs don't make good supporters!

[Khobai]

Quote

When will these griefers like the OP learn to buy bigger engines?

this has been covered already. direwolf cant equip a bigger engine.

Quote

I mean, really, do you have to run that Dire Wolf

Way to sidestep the issue. The fact is the direwolf should be perfectly capable. You should not have to consider playing something else.

If youre going to put a 52kph mech in the game, at least make sure its not screwed over by spawn locations. Thats common sense PGI.

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Considering this a team game, both arguments “you left me behind” and “stay with the group” are valid.

Not many people in this thread think that; it’s either one or the other, but that’s where people are wrong.

You [Assault Pilot] CAN get left behind. And when NASCAR happens, YOU ARE being left behind. There’s no doubt that an Assault mech cannot go as fast as a Heavy, Medium, and for sure not a Light mech (urbie’s excl.). Nascar is the perfect example of ignorance and individuality, leaving way your team for your own desires, and ultimately exposing the major weaknesses for each class. It's also incredibly STUPID, to leave your biggest hitting mechs, and most durable mechs out by the way side. It's always hilarious to watch a medium or heavy peek a ridge and tank 14 alpha strikes because the other team has there sh!7 together.

But, in the same breath, it CAN be YOUR FAULT [Assault Pilot]. Being situationally unaware, intentionally individualizing yourself by straying from the group or just flat out walking in a completely different direction then everyone else, has its implications and they are indeed your fault.

Telling Assault pilots to put on bigger engines in a mech that can't outrun anything even with max size is just absurd and highlights the pompous arrogance and ignorant attitude in some people, and it is a one of those driving forces behind this issue. Those arrogant players fail to realize that they are expected to adapt their playstyle just as much as they expect assaults to adapt to theirs. Slow assaults is not a black-and-white matter. There are grey areas, and everyone should be willing to do what they can to fill those gaps in.

Assaults are not invincible. Problems arise when PILOT or TEAM MEMBER choose to ignore this fact. You can’t blanket the blame on or the other, because it is entirely situational.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 22 December 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[RussianWolf]

DjPush, on 22 December 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

FU! I'm in a 100 ton mech going 56Kph.

Even more frustrating..... watching that 100 ton, 56kph Direwolf leave you behind in your 32-35 kph Urbie. At least the Dire has a fighting chance against a couple ambushers......

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

what would fix this **** is if they added respawns to the game.

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

No... Just no! Keep the respawn crap as far away from this game as possible. It is bad enough that it is in CW, but at least there it kind of makes sense.

But, but, but, imagine the possibilities:

• Forced Clan vs. Clan, IS vs. IS, Clan vs. IS fights
  
• Clan Cluster
  
  • 10 players
    
  • 2 Binaries
    
  • 2-Mech 130-ton maximum drop deck per player
    
  • no minimum weight
• IS Battalion
  
  • 12 players
    
  • 3 Companies
    
  • 3-Mech 170-ton maximum drop deck per player
    
  • no minimum weight

[WarHippy]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

again. one life game modes would still exist.

you realize you can have both one life gamemodes and respawn gamemodes.

one does not preclude the other.

Of course, and we already have it. CW is your respawn mode.

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

And if the type of game you want MWO to become is one thats dominated by banal, repetitive gameplay dictated by deathballing/nascaring then Id say youve succeeded. I personally want the game to be more engaging than that, with more tactical/strategic variation, rather than just grouping up at a predetermined location on the map every damn time. The way to get there is by prioritizing objective based game play and making killing mechs matter less by adding ticket-based respawns. As long as killing the enemy team is the easiest way to win, the game will continue to fall into this ugly pattern of repetition.

I could say the same about respawn game modes. This is supposed to be a thinking mans shooter which any kind of respawn contradicts. With respawns there is no reason to value your own life which leads to wave after wave of Rambo tactics until one side is out of points or the objective is taken. That is even more repetitive banal than what we have. You can make the focus on the objectives while keeping the one life system if the devs design it that way. Also having your life actually matter is a great deal more immersive than just saying screw it while running into the enemy with no regard to your life again and again.

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

One life = no risktaking because afraid to die, boring gameplay, everyone does the same thing every time.
Respawns = freedom to play how you want, ability to take risks and try new things, every game is different.

One life = Taking your time and thinking things through which makes for more enjoyable matches in particular when you have people working together. That fear of death and what it represents to the team is far more immersive than getting killed only to respawn a short time later again and again.
Respawns = Boring no consequences game play with the most in depth team strategy available being to group up for the next banzai charge. Every game ends up exactly the same with wave after wave of meaningless deaths until one side runs out.

[Morggo]

Bobzilla, on 22 December 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

So according to these forums, you should engage in team play, but only you. Everyone else shouldn't.

I love these forums.

Whaa? I need more coffee, missing that point? I'd say more teamwork overall from everyone would be cool. More thinking like that to me would lead to more organized PUGs and more organized PUGs could lead to trying different strategies (had a couple bizarre matches two nights ago.. DC offered up some crackhead strategy.. I said "has the virtue of never being tried" and we all saddled up and ironically won). Communication begets teamwork which begets wins in my experience. So no, I'd say everyone should engage in teamwork.

Which, takes the loonnggg loop back to the OP which is work together meaning don't leave your heavy metal behind. You'll probably be wishing you'd hadn't three minutes from now...

Edited by Morggo, 22 December 2015 - 08:54 AM.

[Moldur]

Yup. The worst is being in a slow medium and spawning in the light lance halfway across the map. Died going across the same crossing as everyone else because I was in too deep already.

[Mystere]

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Of course, and we already have it. CW is your respawn mode.

I could say the same about respawn game modes. This is supposed to be a thinking mans shooter which any kind of respawn contradicts. With respawns there is no reason to value your own life which leads to wave after wave of Rambo tactics until one side is out of points or the objective is taken. That is even more repetitive banal than what we have.

I'm going to have to disagree. That only happens if there is no teamwork and there is no plan of battle. In which case, that's too bad for all the John James Rambos.

[Rhaythe]

Mystere, on 22 December 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

But, but, but, imagine the possibilities

PGI still hasn't made it work with CW; why would it work in the pug queue?

[Roadkill]

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Of course, and we already have it. CW is your respawn mode.

CW is not respawn. CW is 4-Mech fixed life.

Respawn mode means you keep coming back over and over ad infinitum until the time runs out. All previous versions for MechWarrior have had respawn modes, and in those games respawn mode was VASTLY more popular than fixed life.

The solo queue should probably be respawn. CW should be fixed life (as it is). I could see the group queue going either way - either as "respawn with friends" or as "practice for CW".

[Screech]

Doesn't matter how fast your mech is when you have to travel 3 times as far to keep an enemy lance from drilling your posterior uninterrupted.

[Jzaltheral]

As an assault pilot I've learned I am, essentially, on my own when in Puglandia. Which is fine - I do my damage as best I can and move on an .

To the guys that say "LOL, bro, y u soooo slow? Get bigger vroom vroom", I would say only this. I am in an assault mech, not a race car.My job is not to go fast - that's the job of the lights (and mediums, to some extent). My job is not to harrass the enemy and fade away. My job is to get in their face and pound on them unti lthey begin to question their life choices. My job is to leave openings for my team to secure kills. That guy who wades into the enemy team and dies doing 800 damage, leaving a string of crippled and half dead mechs in his wake - yeah, that's me. We can do direct fire and missile support at the same time, while carrying an AMS and ecm.

Playing an assault mech is not a race, it's not glorious, and a lot of the time we get focused on and burned down - but who else are you going to fill our hole with?

I do not do it for the glory - I do it because it has to be done, and frankly, I don't trust any of the rest of you *** rangers to do it right..

[Mystere]

Rhaythe, on 22 December 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

PGI still hasn't made it work with CW; why would it work in the pug queue?

And so everyone just gives up and goes home instead of trying to make things better?

And who said the PUG queue is to remain? I recall myself () proposing in other threads:

Mystere, on 18 December 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

As I have been saying in other threads, the public queues should be retired and instead distributed to the Training Academy and some Solaris-like mode.

For crying out loud, the public queues are supposed to have just been fillers, not "the game" -- just like all the other fillers that have become "major features". <msmh>


<msmh - massively shaking my head>