258 replies to this topic

[DisasterTheory]

If this isn't hard date proof then I don't know what is....


The IS had more players than the Clan and yet the Clan out damaged the IS by several million... That just doesn't seem right. And before the white knights go on parade here I want to remind you that both sides have new players no just the IS. The stats don't lie. Someone is using OP mechs and weapons.... just saying



Total IS Players: 7929 (1275 more players)

Total Clan Players: 6654



Total Damage Done by IS Mechs: 94238853 (9,759,248 less damage)
Total Damage Done by Clan Mechs: 103998101

Now your telling me that IS had almost 1300 more players and did almost 10 million less damage? And don't go into that teamwork using comms crap because even if the Clan players were better (highly doubtful) the damage difference is still WAY off.

Parade away white knights.

[BLOOD WOLF]

hmmm, i will find a weakness in your wall

[SkippyT72]

THe balance in game is fine when you have two teams of equal skill playing, the Clans had more TEAM's playing than the IS, if PGI releases the UNIT stats I'm sure you'll see the fact that the teams that played completly out scored pugs and most likely the IS teams overall due to the amount of teams that went Clan, heck MS alone most likely had 4 12 man teams 228 I'd say at least 2, KCom had 2 and that's just 3 unit's out of how many all running at a time most of the weekend, I know I played 63 drops without a loss and that was playing the game to a kill out all but 1 time I think.

The balance between the IS and clan is fine, the reason the damage is greater is the fact that PGI game massive extra structure quirks to the majority of the IS mechs and as such it took that much more for the clan teams to kill the same tonnage of mechs.

Edited by SkippyT72, 11 December 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[Shatara]

More players doesn't mean more damage. There were 182,921 matches played, each of those had 12 IS players and 12 Clan players. More players just means more idiot pugs to screw things up, while clan 12-mans get faster turnarounds.

[demoyn]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

If this isn't hard date proof then I don't know what is....

Well when you're right, you're right. You most certainly don't know what is...

[KODIAK-AU]

Might be that with all the structure buffs to IS mechs, that the clans had to do more damge per kill???

[DisasterTheory]

lol Only took 3 minutes for my post to get knighted and boy was that a whopper. So your basicly saying that most of the IS players SUCK and that we just take longer to kill ... lol

[KODIAK-AU]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

lol Only took 3 minutes for my post to get knighted and boy was that a whopper. So your basicly saying that most of the IS players SUCK and that we just take longer to kill ... lol

No not at all my good sir, just pointing out the fact that it does take longer to kill an IS mech now, becasue of structure buffs.

This is not white knighting by anymeans. I just pointed out a reason as to why the clan may have scored more damage with less players. make of this what you will

[MaxFool]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

lol Only took 3 minutes for my post to get knighted and boy was that a whopper. So your basicly saying that most of the IS players SUCK and that we just take longer to kill ... lol

your premise was that since there was more IS players they should have done more damage and kills. But there was exactly as many IS players in drops as there were clan players. You were wrong, in a very elementary level. You didn't even understand when you were told you were wrong.

[DisasterTheory]

Quote

Might be that with all the structure buffs to IS mechs, that the clans had to do more damge per kill???

2+2 is equaling 5 here guys.... By all of your accounts the IS mechs have more armor and are harder to kill.... Yet Clans won.... with the same damage weapons available to the IS. This does not compute. A 12 man IS according to your statements should be able to stomp any clan 12 man regardless of skill due to an unbalanced armor amount. If you are saying that the majority of all IS players are lacking skill and for that reason alone you won then I would totally agree but, the simple fact is they are just as skilled as the lot of you. I find it funny how a game like MWO Is a "skill based" game when there are no compensations for lag like in previous games (some of you know to which I speak of) and instead is a simple point and click based game.

It is for this reason that I can not wait for Solaris.

[DisasterTheory]

Quote

your premise was that since there was more IS players they should have done more damage and kills. But there was exactly as many IS players in drops as there were clan players. You were wrong, in a very elementary level. You didn't even understand when you were told you were wrong.

Not at all.... If you read ALL of my post you would see the part where I clearly said...

Quote

even if the Clan players were better (highly doubtful) the damage difference is still WAY off.

It was WAY off.... I can totally understand a million of so damage difference.... but almost 10? come on.

Edited by BLOODREDSINGLE, 11 December 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[illudium Q 36]

You may have to consider the average number of games each player (both IS and Clan) played during the event. Sadly, I don't see a breakdown of this figure in the official stat post. Obviously there were equal numbers of IS and Clan members matched up in groups of twelve on each side for each game. But I think a average number played stat would be helpful.

I got in 33 games as an IS player.

[Flutterguy]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Not at all.... If you read ALL of my post you would see the part where I clearly said...




It was WAY off.... I can totally understand a million of so damage difference.... but almost 10? come on.

You still aren't understanding that the number of players statistic that you're using is the number of unique identifiers who participated and not the number of players dropped.

[MaxFool]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Not at all.... If you read ALL of my post you would see the part where I clearly said...




It was WAY off.... I can totally understand a million of so damage difference.... but almost 10? come on.

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

The IS had more players than the Clan and yet the Clan out damaged the IS by several million... That just doesn't seem right.
...
Total IS Players: 7929 (1275 more players)

Total Clan Players: 6654



Total Damage Done by IS Mechs: 94238853 (9,759,248 less damage)
Total Damage Done by Clan Mechs: 103998101

Now your telling me that IS had almost 1300 more players and did almost 10 million less damage?

Reading it over and over, and it's clear on every point that in your opinion it somehow matters for done damage and kills that IS had more players. It doesn't. At least not in a positive way.

[Hal Greaves]

Clams did 9.8% more damage than IS mechs and are thus OP. I agree. /sarcasm

[DisasterTheory]

I am just assuming that every player in this game is 100% equal to each other and in that regard the numbers do not add up. What you and everyone here is saying is that the Clan were out numbered and had to work harder than the IS to not only out damage the IS but also win the event. I call BS.

[Flutterguy]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I am just assuming that every player in this game is 100% equal to each other and in that regard the numbers do not add up. What you and everyone here is saying is that the Clan were out numbered and had to work harder than the IS to not only out damage the IS but also win the event. I call BS.

Less players is an advantage assuming an equal number of good players on each side. Think of it that way.

[MercJ]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

...things and stuff

It is for this reason that I can not wait for Solaris.

So what will be your excuse when you lose there as well?

The data doesn't really show much yet - if anything, the extra damage dealt *could* be attributed to the extra 10 tons that IS brought. The IS brought more assaults as well. You'll find whatever you're looking for in those numbers anyway, so leave the data analysis to the statisticians

[illudium Q 36]

Well let's see. Total Matches (per player per match) is 182,921 according to the official stats. Add up the numbers of all the totals from the six different map types played and that also equals 182,921.

To get the average number of games played by IS divide 182,921 by 7,629 (total number of IS players) and that equals roughly 23.9 games per player.

To get the average number of games played by the Clans divide 182,921 by 6,654 (total number of Clan players) and that equals roughly 27.4 games per player.

Basically I believe that the Clanners playing roughly 12.8% more games per player (on average) accounts for a lot of the roughly 21% more damage that they dished out (using the 9,759,248 delta in damage between the two sides).

It makes their damage difference smaller by half and hence, more believable.

I still hate Omega Dunking .....................

Edited by illudium Q 36, 11 December 2015 - 04:32 PM.

[Moldur]

I sincerely hope PGI does not listen to or even read 99% of these threads.

What if I need to be balanced as as player? What if I am just good? Do I need to play in a worse mech in order for the game to be balanced? What about worse players? Do they need a better mech?

Ok, for demonstration purposes, imagine if you will 12 of the worst MWO players to ever exist. Pit them against 12 organized players. The worse players lose. That was an extreme.
But guess what? It's not as far from the truth as you might think.
Now imagine that the skill disparity is not as big, and most of the better players in the match are in the organized drop. The outcome is the other team loses.

Now imagine repeating this experiment over and over while occasionally pitting organized vs organized and unorganized vs unorganized.

Whichever side had more organized vs unorganized games probably had better numbers in the end.



That's what I would say if your original post was even a valid point. Number of players does not matter in terms of damage done since one side needs 12 people on the other side to get into a game anyways.
In-fact, it was probably detrimental to have more players on the IS side since most were probably pugs. The first battle of Tuk had a far larger disparity where there were WAY more IS players, and it essentially became a giant feeding tube for the few dozen clan premades that could get into a match instantly. It's like a wood-chipper. Doesn't matter if there is a ton of wood, it all goes into the wood-chipper in a bite sized portion. Your reasoning would make sense if we could somehow clog the woodchipper with 1000 trees, but that's not how CW matches work.