Except from steam beginners going to CW in clan trials and many big units switching to IS, another truth is clanner mechs were easymode since their release and their players were used to roll over IS mechs without any bigger worries. Now balance has finally been established and many clan players are not used to the reality of fighting mechs that are on par with their own. They still use the same loadouts and the same tactics and suddenly...loose.
So this is not about overquirked IS mechs, it`s about some overquirked clan egos that can not accept that it was not their "goodlike" skill that made them own CW for so long.
9
Cw Unplayable Clan Side
Started by Kieva, Dec 27 2015 08:14 PM
447 replies to this topic
#42
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- The Slayer
- 364 posts
Member
- LocationLand's End
Posted 04 January 2016 - 06:13 AM
Clams OP! Need more nerf!
#43
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- Overlord
- 1,074 posts
Member
- LocationInner Sphere
Posted 04 January 2016 - 06:28 AM
@Darth Hotz (hias?)
what balance you talking about ?I know that Clans and IS are not balanced symetrical but what we have now is a joke. Especially if you take a specialized drop deck. An adept or newby could see this if he would take the time to read up on the changes.
A blackjack going toe to toe with a timby if he wants too. I call that balanced lmao. 1.822.5 ERLL range that have less ghost heat more dps and on some chassis even less heat and burn time =D oh and this chassis recieve more HP and more agillity.
This beeing just the tip of the iceberg there are more things but my motivation to tell them all is limited.
The only way clans compete atm is Teamwork is OP and to a very very slight degree that clan mechs have some situational benefit that GOOD players can exploit. If you would put the same guy in one of these quirkmonster IS machines he would do far better because balance is NOT archieved. Exactly the opposite if you look at the specialized monster Chassis in CW. heck you could even go full trial on IS side and do 1000 damge assured or more. I call that balanced =D if i was an IS fanboy.
Balance is when both sides are EQUAL which certainly they are not atm. Especially not after getting 3x nerfbat after Tukk on top of uber chassis weapon quirks on IS side on chassis that doesnt even deserv or needed them to be a good CW pick.
Everything regarding Weapon quirks is a big NO. I mean how should one now know what the Max range is for medium lasers. Kiss(keep it simple and stupid) would have been the right approach not that cluster **** that weapon quirks are now.
what balance you talking about ?I know that Clans and IS are not balanced symetrical but what we have now is a joke. Especially if you take a specialized drop deck. An adept or newby could see this if he would take the time to read up on the changes.
A blackjack going toe to toe with a timby if he wants too. I call that balanced lmao. 1.822.5 ERLL range that have less ghost heat more dps and on some chassis even less heat and burn time =D oh and this chassis recieve more HP and more agillity.
This beeing just the tip of the iceberg there are more things but my motivation to tell them all is limited.
The only way clans compete atm is Teamwork is OP and to a very very slight degree that clan mechs have some situational benefit that GOOD players can exploit. If you would put the same guy in one of these quirkmonster IS machines he would do far better because balance is NOT archieved. Exactly the opposite if you look at the specialized monster Chassis in CW. heck you could even go full trial on IS side and do 1000 damge assured or more. I call that balanced =D if i was an IS fanboy.
Balance is when both sides are EQUAL which certainly they are not atm. Especially not after getting 3x nerfbat after Tukk on top of uber chassis weapon quirks on IS side on chassis that doesnt even deserv or needed them to be a good CW pick.
Everything regarding Weapon quirks is a big NO. I mean how should one now know what the Max range is for medium lasers. Kiss(keep it simple and stupid) would have been the right approach not that cluster **** that weapon quirks are now.
Edited by Inkarnus, 04 January 2016 - 06:41 AM.
#44
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- General
- 459 posts
Member
- LocationOuter Rim of Berlin
Posted 04 January 2016 - 08:14 AM
Inkarnus, on 04 January 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:
@Darth Hotz (hias?)
what balance you talking about ?I know that Clans and IS are not balanced symetrical but what we have now is a joke. Especially if you take a specialized drop deck. An adept or newby could see this if he would take the time to read up on the changes.
A blackjack going toe to toe with a timby if he wants too. I call that balanced lmao. 1.822.5 ERLL range that have less ghost heat more dps and on some chassis even less heat and burn time =D oh and this chassis recieve more HP and more agillity.
This beeing just the tip of the iceberg there are more things but my motivation to tell them all is limited.
The only way clans compete atm is Teamwork is OP and to a very very slight degree that clan mechs have some situational benefit that GOOD players can exploit. If you would put the same guy in one of these quirkmonster IS machines he would do far better because balance is NOT archieved. Exactly the opposite if you look at the specialized monster Chassis in CW. heck you could even go full trial on IS side and do 1000 damge assured or more. I call that balanced =D if i was an IS fanboy.
Balance is when both sides are EQUAL which certainly they are not atm. Especially not after getting 3x nerfbat after Tukk on top of uber chassis weapon quirks on IS side on chassis that doesnt even deserv or needed them to be a good CW pick.
Everything regarding Weapon quirks is a big NO. I mean how should one now know what the Max range is for medium lasers. Kiss(keep it simple and stupid) would have been the right approach not that cluster **** that weapon quirks are now.
what balance you talking about ?I know that Clans and IS are not balanced symetrical but what we have now is a joke. Especially if you take a specialized drop deck. An adept or newby could see this if he would take the time to read up on the changes.
A blackjack going toe to toe with a timby if he wants too. I call that balanced lmao. 1.822.5 ERLL range that have less ghost heat more dps and on some chassis even less heat and burn time =D oh and this chassis recieve more HP and more agillity.
This beeing just the tip of the iceberg there are more things but my motivation to tell them all is limited.
The only way clans compete atm is Teamwork is OP and to a very very slight degree that clan mechs have some situational benefit that GOOD players can exploit. If you would put the same guy in one of these quirkmonster IS machines he would do far better because balance is NOT archieved. Exactly the opposite if you look at the specialized monster Chassis in CW. heck you could even go full trial on IS side and do 1000 damge assured or more. I call that balanced =D if i was an IS fanboy.
Balance is when both sides are EQUAL which certainly they are not atm. Especially not after getting 3x nerfbat after Tukk on top of uber chassis weapon quirks on IS side on chassis that doesnt even deserv or needed them to be a good CW pick.
Everything regarding Weapon quirks is a big NO. I mean how should one now know what the Max range is for medium lasers. Kiss(keep it simple and stupid) would have been the right approach not that cluster **** that weapon quirks are now.
Hotz, not Hias.
I really love that attitude to pick out one special mech, with one special loadout to prove that clanner are now PGI`s unloved stepchilds. Clans still have the best medium with the Stromcrow and I dont think any ERLL Blackjack is a match for the "No Skill Needed" Streakcrow, if you arent stupid and take some cover while coming closer.
In general I dont really understand why some clanners now starts complaining about ERLL. Besides you only use this range (if ever) on Boreal and only in certain and hot loadouts, where was the complaining when Clanners had the range advantage? Clanners still have long range if they want to, the only thing that changed is that the IS now also has some specialized mechs that can shoot back. And this seems to be the part many clanners can not deal with. Now clanners are even forced to use teamwork to win...
Realize it: The easy mode is gone. Adapt or die.
#45
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- Mercenary
- 3,734 posts
Member
- LocationBlack Earth
Posted 04 January 2016 - 08:37 AM
WANTED, on 27 December 2015 - 08:51 PM, said:
I understand your frustration being IS solely in CW for years now and part of me is happy that I don't see clan groups saying " better teamwork wins all " , "train your pugs better" , etc, etc. I went into every CW game with a loss inevitable for years now and I think you have had 2 weeks of this? Anyways I am sure the game will be balanced yet again and clans will see a slight edge if it all works out
This.
#46
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- 84 posts
Member
- LocationNRW - D
Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:23 AM
Still saying thats alot easier 4 me 2 deal dmg with IS specialized mech (and it was so before the nerfs too).
When i Pilot my Clan i have 2 rely on good Teammates 4 coordination or i will not deliver as good as in IS Pugs.
When i Pilot my Clan i have 2 rely on good Teammates 4 coordination or i will not deliver as good as in IS Pugs.
#47
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- Overlord
- 1,074 posts
Member
- LocationInner Sphere
Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:19 AM
Darth Hotz, on 04 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:
Hotz, not Hias.
I really love that attitude to pick out one special mech, with one special loadout to prove that clanner are now PGI`s unloved stepchilds. Clans still have the best medium with the Stromcrow and I dont think any ERLL Blackjack is a match for the "No Skill Needed" Streakcrow, if you arent stupid and take some cover while coming closer.
In general I dont really understand why some clanners now starts complaining about ERLL. Besides you only use this range (if ever) on Boreal and only in certain and hot loadouts, where was the complaining when Clanners had the range advantage? Clanners still have long range if they want to, the only thing that changed is that the IS now also has some specialized mechs that can shoot back. And this seems to be the part many clanners can not deal with. Now clanners are even forced to use teamwork to win...
Realize it: The easy mode is gone. Adapt or die.
I did pick 1 mech to show a 45tonner can kill a 75 tonner which isnt balanced at all.... then going on to even widen the spectrum to just talk about the quirks.... i think you have a problem with your english reading comprehension.
If you complain 2016 about a streakcrow then pls there is the door since you utterly made fun of yourself and shows you have a grudge vs clan and will just cry CLAMS op at every corner.
The rest is just babbeling of you that i cant even make out what you want to say and even going as further as generalising my particular claim is just childs play.
The other point is that these IS quirkmonster mechs are even a problem in internal IS balance....
I atleast have fun wrecking **** in my BJs and going EZmode =D.
Edited by Inkarnus, 04 January 2016 - 10:23 AM.
#48
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- Civil Servant
- 5,154 posts
Member
Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:30 AM
I thought the PTS was over so what is with CW topics in the PTS section?
#49
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- Ace Of Spades
- 213 posts
Member
Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:39 AM
Having just moved from playing exclusively IS mechs for the best part of 9 months to clans, balance seems fine to me. Clan mechs used to be too easy, now you have to work a bit to be effective. Just like in IS. What I will say is that play style and feel is different, different strengths and weaknesses, but overall, seems ok.
Biggest difference is 500+ players went from clans to IS seemingly in unison. You'd think they'd seek opportunities to oppose each other, rather than the opposite. However, there's insta-drops and good battles to be had playing as clans right now so seems good to me.
Biggest difference is 500+ players went from clans to IS seemingly in unison. You'd think they'd seek opportunities to oppose each other, rather than the opposite. However, there's insta-drops and good battles to be had playing as clans right now so seems good to me.
#50
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- The Slayer
- 11 posts
Member
Posted 04 January 2016 - 12:59 PM
I am surprised that most people don't see why one side wins and the other does not. We have been through many qwirks and nerfs in my 10 month experience. Through all of this I have seen that one thing repeats it self.
Whom ever has the backing of the big merc units wins.
Pure and simple.
If you can field 5-6 12 mans in the last hour before cease-fire and those pilots are good the planet falls to them.
How do you all think wolf got to terra so fast and held it for two months?
How do you think the clans won Tukayid twice?
How do you think the clans got pushed back so fast after the reset?
I have the answers
Mercs, mercs and mercs.
Even when wave 3 hits the mercs will control what planet gets taken.
Even if you reduce the size of units to 12 you still have the same problem.
Even of you implement all the changes you suggest the end result will not change.
Even if you manage to balance out the mechs the mercs will destroy that.
Its as if two equally armed countries would go to war except one is backed by the US military.
Life is unfair, games are unfair.
Deal with it.
Whom ever has the backing of the big merc units wins.
Pure and simple.
If you can field 5-6 12 mans in the last hour before cease-fire and those pilots are good the planet falls to them.
How do you all think wolf got to terra so fast and held it for two months?
How do you think the clans won Tukayid twice?
How do you think the clans got pushed back so fast after the reset?
I have the answers
Mercs, mercs and mercs.
Even when wave 3 hits the mercs will control what planet gets taken.
Even if you reduce the size of units to 12 you still have the same problem.
Even of you implement all the changes you suggest the end result will not change.
Even if you manage to balance out the mechs the mercs will destroy that.
Its as if two equally armed countries would go to war except one is backed by the US military.
Life is unfair, games are unfair.
Deal with it.
#52
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- The Howl
- 10 posts
Member
Posted 04 January 2016 - 02:36 PM
One thing that I've taken notice of and it's been really bothering me is the clan "Double" heat-sinks and the reason why is simply they are just as effective as innersphere single heat-sinks but twice and large, why? Just another thing they had to skimp on for the clans to be "fair" come on guy's at least make it middle ground between the innersphere single and double heat-sinks.
#53
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- The Blade
- 204 posts
Member
Posted 04 January 2016 - 02:37 PM
Musashi Alexander, on 04 January 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:
Having just moved from playing exclusively IS mechs for the best part of 9 months to clans, balance seems fine to me. Clan mechs used to be too easy, now you have to work a bit to be effective. Just like in IS. What I will say is that play style and feel is different, different strengths and weaknesses, but overall, seems ok.
Biggest difference is 500+ players went from clans to IS seemingly in unison. You'd think they'd seek opportunities to oppose each other, rather than the opposite. However, there's insta-drops and good battles to be had playing as clans right now so seems good to me.
Biggest difference is 500+ players went from clans to IS seemingly in unison. You'd think they'd seek opportunities to oppose each other, rather than the opposite. However, there's insta-drops and good battles to be had playing as clans right now so seems good to me.
Exactly this. Balance is the best I have seen it, with only some fine tuning on tonnage to put us in an excellent situation.
Your mileage may vary of course on a pug drop, but that's a fact of life in pug drops in CW no matter where you are. From my experience over the last 2 weeks playing in a 4-12 man premade in both Kurita and JF it's 2 sides of the same coin.
Wading through pug drops, which is unenjoyable for both sides (but better than not dropping) to meet another premade and have gudfites.
I haven't noticed any appreciable difference between IS and Clan beyond the crappy IS wait times (15-20 mins) and insta Clan drops.
I know we see a ton of these threads, and I know hearing the same old refrain of 'drop with a corp' gets old but it is what it is.
I certainly feel your pain. Having watched my team mates in just a 4 man carve through the reds, frankly I don't want to pug drop in CW either. I just hit Quick Play where my drop and individual play carries a better handicap for my team.
#54
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- The Blade
- 204 posts
Member
Posted 04 January 2016 - 02:45 PM
And, I am not trying to undermine peoples cries of 'Clan mechs OP because better paint schemes!' or 'IS OP because Catapult torso twist quirk broken good!'.
It's all true, but its been covered elsewhere ad nauseam. Both sets of mechs have their own advantages, that when played with leadership, allows them to be leveraged via terrain and tactics to deliver winning games.
Leading pugs is herding cats, and seems to be only effective when their are a small core of players that responds to direction, enabling herd instinct in the others to kick in.
But even a bad leader is better than no leader.
GL&HF. If you get stomped, its nothing personal, and thanks for the drops.
It's all true, but its been covered elsewhere ad nauseam. Both sets of mechs have their own advantages, that when played with leadership, allows them to be leveraged via terrain and tactics to deliver winning games.
Leading pugs is herding cats, and seems to be only effective when their are a small core of players that responds to direction, enabling herd instinct in the others to kick in.
But even a bad leader is better than no leader.
GL&HF. If you get stomped, its nothing personal, and thanks for the drops.
#55
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- Bridesmaid
- 28 posts
Member
- LocationSeattle, WA
Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:33 PM
Darth Hotz, on 04 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:
Clans still have the best medium with the Stromcrow and I dont think any ERLL Blackjack is a match for the "No Skill Needed" Streakcrow, if you arent stupid and take some cover while coming closer.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHOHOHOHOHOHEHEHEHEHEHE Did you really just call the stormcrow the best medium in the game? Did you *srsly*?
I'm a crappy T3 pilot, first match after I finished basic'ing it, not a single module:
Stormcrow clearly > All. QFTT
Edited by LupineShadow, 04 January 2016 - 09:48 PM.
#56
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- The Jaws
- 6,368 posts
Member
- Locationnowhere
Posted 04 January 2016 - 11:05 PM
Can they at least get rid of the negative quirks for the T-wolf, that where put in place in the beginning of it's inception.
Also, those UAC's really dominate at close to mid range
Also, those UAC's really dominate at close to mid range
#57
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- Philanthropist
- 2,232 posts
Member
Posted 04 January 2016 - 11:56 PM
I played 4 or 5 games of CW on either side tonight and I lost every match with close to, or top damage for my team. One of them was really close (their team had 3-4 mechs left and were shooting omega to half health in the last seconds of the game.)
I guess I'm just cursed.
What I really wish is that people would stop being intellectually dishonest about IS being under-ranged in CW.
Yeah, no ****, 3/4 of the IS lineup doesn't have range quirks. So? Look out the window. How is that relevant to the IS chassis we see in most CW games? One person can only bring 4 chassis into a CW match anyway. If those 4 chassis are all quirked out the *** with beam duration, range, structure quirks, etc. Then what difference do all of those other chassis make? Hint: zero.
I guess I'm just cursed.
What I really wish is that people would stop being intellectually dishonest about IS being under-ranged in CW.
Yeah, no ****, 3/4 of the IS lineup doesn't have range quirks. So? Look out the window. How is that relevant to the IS chassis we see in most CW games? One person can only bring 4 chassis into a CW match anyway. If those 4 chassis are all quirked out the *** with beam duration, range, structure quirks, etc. Then what difference do all of those other chassis make? Hint: zero.
#58
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- Ace Of Spades
- 561 posts
Member
- LocationGermany
Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:36 AM
Fallen Clanner here. For the Classics return (and Mech mastering) I got sucked up by the dark side and joined the Inner Sphere. After about one week with the IS I do not know if the match ups are balanced. I tend to say no.
Fighting for the IS feels easier most times. I got stomped, aff. But I also got stomped as Clan. Yet it feels that Clan armour just melts away when looked at sharply while my armour stripped IS Mechs stand in the open and rip the hell out of Clan Mechs.
Example (from a match yesterday played):
Boreal Vault, IS was defending. Mid match the Clanners split from Alpha gate to both. I positioned at Beta (F5, left way) and stopped a fresh Direwolf, 6 UAC/5 and a pair of cERMeds. I was in my already torn and left torso opened (orange) Ilya, 3 UAC/5 and 3 medium lasers. I thought I was screwed but focused on taking out half the DWFs weaponry.
I ended up chewing through this Mech entirely and got away alive.
Ok, I am a god at piloting lol. Bloody standing still. Did I mention the DWF was accompanied by a Nova and a Stormcrow? The latter got legged by me as well, when support arrived for me.
This is a true story, but its outcome is not right at all!
My Marauders also end up stripped but I can fend off some more attackers. It seems my Mechs structures are blessed.
Also I do feel a little dirty: bringing 3 heavies and a medium is just..overwhelming.
2 MADs, 1 CTF and 1 Vindicator or
2 MADs, 1 TDR and 1 Centurion.
Earlier this morning I dropped with a 10 man premade (228). 9 of them switched to their Black Jacks 1x. The poor Clanners did not stand a chance.
Against organized units it is a hard time, but in PUG vs PUG the match up feels easier for the IS.
addendum: fellow Clanners, do not bring LRMs unless you are part of a premade.
Fighting for the IS feels easier most times. I got stomped, aff. But I also got stomped as Clan. Yet it feels that Clan armour just melts away when looked at sharply while my armour stripped IS Mechs stand in the open and rip the hell out of Clan Mechs.
Example (from a match yesterday played):
Boreal Vault, IS was defending. Mid match the Clanners split from Alpha gate to both. I positioned at Beta (F5, left way) and stopped a fresh Direwolf, 6 UAC/5 and a pair of cERMeds. I was in my already torn and left torso opened (orange) Ilya, 3 UAC/5 and 3 medium lasers. I thought I was screwed but focused on taking out half the DWFs weaponry.
I ended up chewing through this Mech entirely and got away alive.
Ok, I am a god at piloting lol. Bloody standing still. Did I mention the DWF was accompanied by a Nova and a Stormcrow? The latter got legged by me as well, when support arrived for me.
This is a true story, but its outcome is not right at all!
My Marauders also end up stripped but I can fend off some more attackers. It seems my Mechs structures are blessed.
Also I do feel a little dirty: bringing 3 heavies and a medium is just..overwhelming.
2 MADs, 1 CTF and 1 Vindicator or
2 MADs, 1 TDR and 1 Centurion.
Earlier this morning I dropped with a 10 man premade (228). 9 of them switched to their Black Jacks 1x. The poor Clanners did not stand a chance.
Against organized units it is a hard time, but in PUG vs PUG the match up feels easier for the IS.
addendum: fellow Clanners, do not bring LRMs unless you are part of a premade.
Edited by latinisator, 05 January 2016 - 12:37 AM.
#59
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- The 1 Percent
- 46 posts
Member
Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:58 AM
I am playing IS ever since and to be very honest, the only CW matches I was on the winning side, was with a couple of 228 and SWOL players - so I was on the winning side for about 3 matches. The same night I got into a FRR PUG group and got stomped 4 times in a row.
Actually I don't see any point in this discussion. Of course I fully understand that getting nerfed feels like a game breaker as you need to adjust to a certain percentage.
The only thing that finally ended is the "easy mode" for Clan mechs, which in conjunction with the mercs moving to IS feels like the total domination of the IS side.
I understand every Clan players "anger" - but you need to find your playstyle the same way as most of the IS player had to.
Nevertheless I have the feeling, that this game is as close to a perfect balancing as it could possibly be - if you consider the road PGI went on. My idea would have been another one - but that doesn't matter as PGI decided to go that way.
Just my 2 cents
Greetings
Ey3
Actually I don't see any point in this discussion. Of course I fully understand that getting nerfed feels like a game breaker as you need to adjust to a certain percentage.
The only thing that finally ended is the "easy mode" for Clan mechs, which in conjunction with the mercs moving to IS feels like the total domination of the IS side.
I understand every Clan players "anger" - but you need to find your playstyle the same way as most of the IS player had to.
Nevertheless I have the feeling, that this game is as close to a perfect balancing as it could possibly be - if you consider the road PGI went on. My idea would have been another one - but that doesn't matter as PGI decided to go that way.
Just my 2 cents
Greetings
Ey3
#60
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- The Covert
- 2,649 posts
Member
- LocationPerth
Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:59 AM
Unplayable for Clans, NOT. 11 matches today for 9 wins. I am a proud member of a unit and even when we didnt have a full 12 man the pugs stepped up and followed drop command.
Unless IS brings 2 waves of assaults we are fine and even then we just need to find the best tactics to beat it.
Get into a unit and watch the wins flow.
Unless IS brings 2 waves of assaults we are fine and even then we just need to find the best tactics to beat it.
Get into a unit and watch the wins flow.
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