447 replies to this topic

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Marc von der Heide, on 04 January 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

This.
Clans OP pls nerf clans.

seriously, tho.
Why do i never see BO, KCOM, MS or DSX complain about how unplayable clan'mechs have become?
Surely it can't be because they keep winning regardless what they're piloting?

[Surn]

All the big teams went IS, and some of us wonder if it is just a ploy to get their favorite clan mechs back to ultra OP level.

I fight both clan and IS teams, and the IS teams are still not as tough as the clan teams generally. Clan mechs hit harder and are faster with more ecm cover. They are much better for team play, further the IIC mechs allow much more flexibility for the latest round of clan mechs.

Seriously, the people that say Clan is underpowered are just accustomed to stomping everyone on easy mode. With the 15ton advantage on the IS side, this game is more balanced than it has ever been.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

Seriously, the people that say Clan is underpowered are just accustomed to stomping everyone on easy mode. With the 15ton advantage on the IS side, this game is more balanced than it has ever been.

A few days ago Clans tonnage was increased to 255-tons so it is now a 10-ton difference. The increase though still allows IS pilots, those who do take advantage of it, to bring stockier mechs. And many units are definitely bringing the tonnage. Russ had twittered that adjusting tonnage often was something they planned on doing but had not been doing it.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 January 2016 - 05:12 AM.

[Asterios]

LOADED, on 05 January 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

This.
Clans OP pls nerf clans.

seriously, tho.
Why do i never see BO, KCOM, MS or DSX complain about how unplayable clan'mechs have become?
Surely it can't be because they keep winning regardless what they're piloting?

You can see post from Rattazustra on first page yep, not unplayable but IS quirked high.

[spectralthundr]

Leartes, on 29 December 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

I'm a pugger and before steam release we were losing 2/3 of the matches but mostly due to bad coordination. I think I won about 50% of the games where we had a good drop leader.

Then after steam launch cw was unplayable. I had lots of matches with 6 players with only trials on my side while the clanners had none of the new guys. Obviously I lost most of these matches. I was in top 3-4 with only 600 damage ... very sad days.

Post christmas I'm playing cw again and I have yet to lose a match, BUT this is this the first time that I drop with 4+ players from 228 or other strong units. I recognize many of them because so far I was always on the receiving end.


I have no clue how you guys come to your balance conclusions when apparently it mostly depends on the strong units.

EDIT: Before anyone points it out, I know 228 was not clan. But it is not about one unit, it is about the bulk of decent units switching sides.

It's really 2 fold, the clanners lost most of their organized groups, and now the two sides are more closely balanced in terms of performance. So the loyalist clanners are getting a taste now of going up against organized teams with a more even playing field and it's been harder for them.

Inkarnus, on 04 January 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

@Darth Hotz (hias?)
what balance you talking about ?I know that Clans and IS are not balanced symetrical but what we have now is a joke. Especially if you take a specialized drop deck. An adept or newby could see this if he would take the time to read up on the changes.

A blackjack going toe to toe with a timby if he wants too. I call that balanced lmao. 1.822.5 ERLL range that have less ghost heat more dps and on some chassis even less heat and burn time =D oh and this chassis recieve more HP and more agillity.
This beeing just the tip of the iceberg there are more things but my motivation to tell them all is limited.


The only way clans compete atm is Teamwork is OP and to a very very slight degree that clan mechs have some situational benefit that GOOD players can exploit. If you would put the same guy in one of these quirkmonster IS machines he would do far better because balance is NOT archieved. Exactly the opposite if you look at the specialized monster Chassis in CW. heck you could even go full trial on IS side and do 1000 damge assured or more. I call that balanced =D if i was an IS fanboy.

Balance is when both sides are EQUAL which certainly they are not atm. Especially not after getting 3x nerfbat after Tukk on top of uber chassis weapon quirks on IS side on chassis that doesnt even deserv or needed them to be a good CW pick.

Everything regarding Weapon quirks is a big NO. I mean how should one now know what the Max range is for medium lasers. Kiss(keep it simple and stupid) would have been the right approach not that cluster **** that weapon quirks are now.

A good Timby pilot is going to wipe the floor with that BJ even with the structure quirks 9 out of 10 times.

[Lily from animove]

Spadejack, on 28 December 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

I have the solution, every single clanner should turn to the IS side, that way, all the IS units would have no more CW against the clans, they would have to fight eachother.
PGI would see that something is very wrong, and would balanced once and for all!!! Or take clans out of the game until a true balance is achieved.

Thats not the solution thats kinda suiciding CW, and PGi woudl probably cunter it with higher Cbills faction rewards instead of seeing the real issue.

Buw what happened with the Wolf unti anting to go IS? do we have screens to proof IS supriority yet? Wasn't following the Forum over christmas/new year.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 January 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Alaric Hasek, on 27 December 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

It's not that Clan 'mechs were nerfed that much, though long burn times are a pain. What makes IS 'mechs better at the moment is the -10% or -15% heat gen, 10 to 15% range bonus, and the massive internal bonuses for IS 'mechs. That makes the Black Knight, Blackjack, Marauder, and some other IS 'mechs able to brawl better than the Clanners... AND some IS 'mechs get range quirks too - so they outrange the IS. There are Quickdraws, Battlemasters, Blackjacks, Cicadas (and probably others) that have +25% energy range. With a range mod they can get effective ERLLs out to 1000m.

CW is more difficult for Clans because of the above issues, and the 265 ton IS drop deck lets me bring things like a 3LL/3 ML Black Knight, a 4 LL/1 ERLL Marauder, a 3LL/2 ML Enforcer, and a 4 ERLL Quickdraw with 5 tons to spare. 265 tons could also be 3 Black Knights and a Cicada, or 4 Thunderwubs straight off Metamechs. Worse for the Clans is that a number of units that had gone Clan, especially in Tuk 2 went IS. That's part of why the Clans can't get out of their zones. You can look at the map and see where those units are with currently.

So, do Clans need buffs? Probably not, but if you want more balance there need to be less weapon perks for the IS.

I couldn't agree more. I think issue here is:
MWO combat is about damage dealt/received per contact window. Now, to win the damage trade per contact window you need to be able to get your damage on target whilst taking less. This obviously favours front loaded pin point weapons. Secondly over the course of any given trade, you may have 30 seconds of smaller "windows" these windows are dictated by heat and exposure time and frequency. If you can have 5 "windows" to your opponent's 3, then you have an edge.

Currently the Inner Sphere mechs are generally cooler, with shorter duration lasers and heavily quirked pin point weapons. they are generally higher velocity,and faster cooldown.
they also tend to have comparable armour values backed up by structure quirks.
due to the shorter duration lasers and buffed srms/ballistics their damage tends to be more "efficient" per shot. This means more damage goes where you want it with less "wastage."

for example, an Is mech and a clan mech go at it at 600m with their versions of ERLL. Both do full damage at that range. The Is laser has a 20% duration lessening quirk. the Is mech puts his/her full damage out in one second. The clanner does his/hers in 1.5 seconds. This means the Is mech can place a full burn (9pts) and still start to twist BEFORE the clanner's damage is even applied fully. The Is mech would be able to spread that damage across 2-3 components, combined with said structure quirks......result is obvious. This generally applies to all clan lasers and AC.....
Attrition IS mech wins, every single time.......

Currently many Is mechs can out range, out alpha, out efficiency and out survive their clan counterparts.
I am now struggling to kit out and build my clan mechs, my first act was to start rationlising and try to logically wok out counters to IS tech (remember, I run BOTH sets of tech frequently). Trouble is if you factor in the above there isn't a direct counter in most cases....
you have to hope they are worse at the game than you are......two pilots of equal talent=bad news for the clan mech....
Right now CW fun is IS v IS seems good balance. Trouble is, it's s slap in the face for people that paid a premium for clan mechs with real cash. Not saying they should be anymore poerful at all-but they MUST be equally viable.
MANY of the comp level players I have spoken too and other units are saying the same thing: IS has the edge, in nearly EVERY field.

spectralthundr, on 05 January 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

It's really 2 fold, the clanners lost most of their organized groups, and now the two sides are more closely balanced in terms of performance. So the loyalist clanners are getting a taste now of going up against organized teams with a more even playing field and it's been harder for them.



A good Timby pilot is going to wipe the floor with that BJ even with the structure quirks 9 out of 10 times.

No he really isn't. I've handed quite a few TBR pilots their *** in a HBK 4SP Quirks+medicore skill>all.

[Kieva]

kamiko kross, on 05 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

I couldn't agree more. I think issue here is:
MWO combat is about damage dealt/received per contact window. Now, to win the damage trade per contact window you need to be able to get your damage on target whilst taking less. This obviously favours front loaded pin point weapons. Secondly over the course of any given trade, you may have 30 seconds of smaller "windows" these windows are dictated by heat and exposure time and frequency. If you can have 5 "windows" to your opponent's 3, then you have an edge.

Currently the Inner Sphere mechs are generally cooler, with shorter duration lasers and heavily quirked pin point weapons. they are generally higher velocity,and faster cooldown.
they also tend to have comparable armour values backed up by structure quirks.
due to the shorter duration lasers and buffed srms/ballistics their damage tends to be more "efficient" per shot. This means more damage goes where you want it with less "wastage."

for example, an Is mech and a clan mech go at it at 600m with their versions of ERLL. Both do full damage at that range. The Is laser has a 20% duration lessening quirk. the Is mech puts his/her full damage out in one second. The clanner does his/hers in 1.5 seconds. This means the Is mech can place a full burn (9pts) and still start to twist BEFORE the clanner's damage is even applied fully. The Is mech would be able to spread that damage across 2-3 components, combined with said structure quirks......result is obvious. This generally applies to all clan lasers and AC.....
Attrition IS mech wins, every single time.......

Currently many Is mechs can out range, out alpha, out efficiency and out survive their clan counterparts.
I am now struggling to kit out and build my clan mechs, my first act was to start rationlising and try to logically wok out counters to IS tech (remember, I run BOTH sets of tech frequently). Trouble is if you factor in the above there isn't a direct counter in most cases....
you have to hope they are worse at the game than you are......two pilots of equal talent=bad news for the clan mech....
Right now CW fun is IS v IS seems good balance. Trouble is, it's s slap in the face for people that paid a premium for clan mechs with real cash. Not saying they should be anymore poerful at all-but they MUST be equally viable.
MANY of the comp level players I have spoken too and other units are saying the same thing: IS has the edge, in nearly EVERY field.


No he really isn't. I've handed quite a few TBR pilots their *** in a HBK 4SP Quirks+medicore skill>all.

This whole post.

But the whole remark about the comp units really is where it's at. The balance should cater to the competitive players, the rest will fall in line.

Also, stop telling me to join a unit. I'm a member of CWI, so is Commander A9. As mentioned in the OP, these drops I was in were 12-man units. We were getting killed by public groups, now I know FRR pugs tend to be better than other pug groups, but we were still organized and using tactics. I accept that there are growing pains to balancing, but it still feels like all the IS has to do is camp a dropzone and it's impossible to win.

[Jack Spade Ward]

kamiko kross, on 05 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

I couldn't agree more. I think issue here is:
MWO combat is about damage dealt/received per contact window. Now, to win the damage trade per contact window you need to be able to get your damage on target whilst taking less. This obviously favours front loaded pin point weapons. Secondly over the course of any given trade, you may have 30 seconds of smaller "windows" these windows are dictated by heat and exposure time and frequency. If you can have 5 "windows" to your opponent's 3, then you have an edge.

Currently the Inner Sphere mechs are generally cooler, with shorter duration lasers and heavily quirked pin point weapons. they are generally higher velocity,and faster cooldown.
they also tend to have comparable armour values backed up by structure quirks.
due to the shorter duration lasers and buffed srms/ballistics their damage tends to be more "efficient" per shot. This means more damage goes where you want it with less "wastage."

for example, an Is mech and a clan mech go at it at 600m with their versions of ERLL. Both do full damage at that range. The Is laser has a 20% duration lessening quirk. the Is mech puts his/her full damage out in one second. The clanner does his/hers in 1.5 seconds. This means the Is mech can place a full burn (9pts) and still start to twist BEFORE the clanner's damage is even applied fully. The Is mech would be able to spread that damage across 2-3 components, combined with said structure quirks......result is obvious. This generally applies to all clan lasers and AC.....
Attrition IS mech wins, every single time.......

Currently many Is mechs can out range, out alpha, out efficiency and out survive their clan counterparts.
I am now struggling to kit out and build my clan mechs, my first act was to start rationlising and try to logically wok out counters to IS tech (remember, I run BOTH sets of tech frequently). Trouble is if you factor in the above there isn't a direct counter in most cases....
you have to hope they are worse at the game than you are......two pilots of equal talent=bad news for the clan mech....
Right now CW fun is IS v IS seems good balance. Trouble is, it's s slap in the face for people that paid a premium for clan mechs with real cash. Not saying they should be anymore poerful at all-but they MUST be equally viable.
MANY of the comp level players I have spoken too and other units are saying the same thing: IS has the edge, in nearly EVERY field.


No he really isn't. I've handed quite a few TBR pilots their *** in a HBK 4SP Quirks+medicore skill>all.

Couldnt have said it better! All true above. Been talking with some friends on comp team, all of them said the same, IS outfields Clan in every category, for same pilot level. Easy mode on CW is going agaisnt clan. IS vs IS are way more dificult.

[Charles Sennet]

To preserve my sanity, I stopped playing CW unless we have an organized drop of 10-12 members from my unit (DSx). Even still it takes a lot of creative tactics, discipline, and build cohesion to defeat organized IS teams these days. The balance metric PGI should be looking at is the W/L % for 10-12 Clan vs 10-12 IS. That will tell you a lot about the current state of balance. My guess is the organized team win rate heavily favors IS since the end of BoT2.

Edited by Charles Sennet, 05 January 2016 - 10:31 AM.

[Director Kobil]

I am playing this Game more than 25 Years now, and i must say, i am so disappointed. I never heard , or read about a Clan ERPPC that does 10 points of Damage, or double Heatsinks that have 1,1 or IS Lasers with much more Range then Clan Weapons. So its up to you, Developement Team, to get yourself some Technical Readouts and other Books. You will see that the inner Sphere vs Clan has always been fights like 10 IS Mechs vs. 4 Clan mechs etc. With the reduction of Heatsink in such exaggerated way, there is almost NO Omnimech from the Technical Readouts that would work anymore and i dont even talk about Mechs like Nightgyr or the IIC Mechs, just the good old Omnimechs. I understand that u need to balance the Gamemechanic somehow, but there should never ever be an IS Mech that has a ER Large Laser with bigger range then a Clan Mech. This is not intented and its not the idea of Battletech.( The battle of Tukayyid with approx: 6500 Clan vs. 22000 ComGuards Mechs would have resulted in an instant defeat of the Clans).

So my suggestion is: think about the quirks again.


and be aware that the Clans have Battleships that have the ability for orbital Bombardent your developement center ;-)

[Drunk Canuck]

Mixed bag of FRR? You know you were probably facing at least one group, if not a full 12? FRR is super organized, and that much has been obvious for a long time in CW. You know what I see a lot of from Clan players? People thinking they can face tank and not torso twist to spread damage. Then they QQ because they got CT cored and dead by 3 or 4 Mech's opening fire on them at once because they happened to be organized.

[Gorgo7]

kamiko kross, on 05 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

I couldn't agree more. I think issue here is:
MWO combat is about damage dealt/received per contact window. Now, to win the damage trade per contact window you need to be able to get your damage on target whilst taking less. This obviously favours front loaded pin point weapons. Secondly over the course of any given trade, you may have 30 seconds of smaller "windows" these windows are dictated by heat and exposure time and frequency. If you can have 5 "windows" to your opponent's 3, then you have an edge.

Currently the Inner Sphere mechs are generally cooler, with shorter duration lasers and heavily quirked pin point weapons. they are generally higher velocity,and faster cooldown.
they also tend to have comparable armour values backed up by structure quirks.
due to the shorter duration lasers and buffed srms/ballistics their damage tends to be more "efficient" per shot. This means more damage goes where you want it with less "wastage."

for example, an Is mech and a clan mech go at it at 600m with their versions of ERLL. Both do full damage at that range. The Is laser has a 20% duration lessening quirk. the Is mech puts his/her full damage out in one second. The clanner does his/hers in 1.5 seconds. This means the Is mech can place a full burn (9pts) and still start to twist BEFORE the clanner's damage is even applied fully. The Is mech would be able to spread that damage across 2-3 components, combined with said structure quirks......result is obvious. This generally applies to all clan lasers and AC.....
Attrition IS mech wins, every single time.......

Currently many Is mechs can out range, out alpha, out efficiency and out survive their clan counterparts.
I am now struggling to kit out and build my clan mechs, my first act was to start rationlising and try to logically wok out counters to IS tech (remember, I run BOTH sets of tech frequently). Trouble is if you factor in the above there isn't a direct counter in most cases....
you have to hope they are worse at the game than you are......two pilots of equal talent=bad news for the clan mech....
Right now CW fun is IS v IS seems good balance. Trouble is, it's s slap in the face for people that paid a premium for clan mechs with real cash. Not saying they should be anymore poerful at all-but they MUST be equally viable.
MANY of the comp level players I have spoken too and other units are saying the same thing: IS has the edge, in nearly EVERY field.


No he really isn't. I've handed quite a few TBR pilots their *** in a HBK 4SP Quirks+medicore skill>all.

Nonsense. As usual, concerning the Clans, the example above is narrow and deceptive.
To whit,
Clan ERLL, 11 Dam, 10 heat, 740 Rng. 4 tons, 2 slots. Cooldown 3.25 secs, Dur 1.5 secs. 6.66 Heat per sec, 7.33 d/s.
IS ERLL, 9 Dam, 8 Heat, 640 Rng, 5 tons, 2 Slots. Cooldown 3.25 secs, Dur 1.25 secs. 6.4 Heat per sec, 7.2 d/s.

Looks the same to me except the Clan does more damage per trigger pull at greater ranges for lower tonnage.

Note: as a function of tonnage the Clan does 1.833 damage per ton of weapon per second!
The IS does 1.44 damage per ton of weapon per second.

Even with the above argument about +20% cooldown the IS is still losing the tonnage race and overall damage race.

Why don't we put an CERMed laser next to that CERLL for tonnage parity?
At 600 meters that is 17.5 total damage per trigger pull...that is at the SAME tonnage at the same range as the OP IS ERLL with a +20% cooldown bonus...you know, the one in...which mech again?

Which IS mech gets that fab bonus to cooldown? There are about 140 of the damn things in the IS.
I looked through ALL the IS Heavies and found 2 out of the 49 available today.
One Orion with two energy hardpoints and one Catapult with two CT energy hardpoints... OP for sure!
K.K. has always had a LOVE for the Clans. Take anything he says with a grain of salt.
He almost invariably exaggerates and obfuscates.

[Drunk Canuck]

LOADED, on 05 January 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

This.
Clans OP pls nerf clans.

seriously, tho.
Why do i never see BO, KCOM, MS or DSX complain about how unplayable clan'mechs have become?
Surely it can't be because they keep winning regardless what they're piloting?

Ultimately one thing that isn't really brought up is group vs group play. Skill DOES matter, no matter what people think. Organization DOES matter. The Mech's you bring DO matter, especially when playing on your own.

http://images.akamai...und-color=black

Case and point and I didn't post the link to name and shame because the 12 man team we faced were generally pretty good about getting beaten up so handily. Granted, at the same time, the hackusations by at least one of their members was uncalled for and gets pretty tiring hearing that almost daily. When you get beaten that badly, accusing people of hacking and cheating is the best people can do because they don't want to admit that the Mech's they brought, the builds they brought and their organization, was not good enough to win. Yes, even 228th loses games against other 12 man's, our CW group isn't all ace competitive pilots after all, the majority of our CW group just plays CW and sometimes comp players drop with us. Heck, our 9 man the other night lost a game against an MS 12 man by 10 Mech's, and even though we played our best, our pugs certainly didn't help us win it either by pulling their weight. The game is so much about whether everyone in the group is on the same page in group play, which is why a 12 man will win against two 6 man's, 12 randoms or 3 4 man's most of the time if the entire group is on the same page. There are units who do lose to randoms (which quite frankly, should be embarrassing for everyone in the group).

FRR is quite possibly the best IS faction because the units who get involved are all on the same page and have similar goals for their faction. Even without organizing units, the FRR hub is a buzz of activity most of the day because people want to play, they want to win and they want to have fun. Winning is fun, never understood why units have to get lynch mobbed and forced to deal with stupid balance decisions that are trivial when skill is so much a determining factor in the game.

[spectralthundr]

kamiko kross, on 05 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

No he really isn't. I've handed quite a few TBR pilots their *** in a HBK 4SP Quirks+medicore skill>all.

Which is why I said a GOOD timby pilot.

[Jon Gotham]

Gorgo7, on 05 January 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

Nonsense. As usual, concerning the Clans, the example above is narrow and deceptive.
To whit,
Clan ERLL, 11 Dam, 10 heat, 740 Rng. 4 tons, 2 slots. Cooldown 3.25 secs, Dur 1.5 secs. 6.66 Heat per sec, 7.33 d/s.
IS ERLL, 9 Dam, 8 Heat, 640 Rng, 5 tons, 2 Slots. Cooldown 3.25 secs, Dur 1.25 secs. 6.4 Heat per sec, 7.2 d/s.

Looks the same to me except the Clan does more damage per trigger pull at greater ranges for lower tonnage.

Note: as a function of tonnage the Clan does 1.833 damage per ton of weapon per second!
The IS does 1.44 damage per ton of weapon per second.

Even with the above argument about +20% cooldown the IS is still losing the tonnage race and overall damage race.

Why don't we put an CERMed laser next to that CERLL for tonnage parity?
At 600 meters that is 17.5 total damage per trigger pull...that is at the SAME tonnage at the same range as the OP IS ERLL with a +20% cooldown bonus...you know, the one in...which mech again?

Which IS mech gets that fab bonus to cooldown? There are about 140 of the damn things in the IS.
I looked through ALL the IS Heavies and found 2 out of the 49 available today.
One Orion with two energy hardpoints and one Catapult with two CT energy hardpoints... OP for sure!
K.K. has always had a LOVE for the Clans. Take anything he says with a grain of salt.
He almost invariably exaggerates and obfuscates.

Matter of perception to be honest. Duration matters, spread matters. Raw potential damage isn't what you make out. EFFICIENT damage application matters. Clan weapons generally are less efficient than Is ones per trigger pull. the damage has to go where it's aimed at to be effective. Clan damage tends to be more spread. I play both sets of tech matey, i can see with my own eyes the difference.
plus, two personal attacks in the same day is rather crass and poor form matey. you might as well have been more open with the vitriol and just called me an idiot?
I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are. Personal snide remarks to try to besmirch me is very, very low.

Right now, there seems to be a LOT of pro IS flag waving going on, a LOT of fact dodging and general pettyfogging of any discussion over balance...don't you want fair and balanced?
People FAR better than you at the game tend to disagree with you currently, are they all idiots too?

[LupineShadow]

Gorgo7, on 05 January 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

Nonsense. As usual, concerning the Clans, the example above is narrow and deceptive.
To whit,
Clan ERLL, 11 Dam, 10 heat, 740 Rng. 4 tons, 2 slots. Cooldown 3.25 secs, Dur 1.5 secs. 6.66 Heat per sec, 7.33 d/s.
IS ERLL, 9 Dam, 8 Heat, 640 Rng, 5 tons, 2 Slots. Cooldown 3.25 secs, Dur 1.25 secs. 6.4 Heat per sec, 7.2 d/s.

Looks the same to me except the Clan does more damage per trigger pull at greater ranges for lower tonnage.

Note: as a function of tonnage the Clan does 1.833 damage per ton of weapon per second!
The IS does 1.44 damage per ton of weapon per second.

Even with the above argument about +20% cooldown the IS is still losing the tonnage race and overall damage race.

And other stuff.

Because raw weapon stats make the only difference. Not the fact that proper IS mechs have multiple quirks to impact the weapon system. Or the difference in ghost heat numbers. Or the different methods of heat management across techs. Or any of the other external modifiers of each individual weapon. Or the tonnage restrictions due to locked equipment on clan mechs that reduces an assault mech's weapon capacity to that of an IS medium. Nope. Not-a-one. All comes down to raw, base weapon numbers. Yup.

Sidenote: For the chance of hearing the "Well, only a few mechs have x quirks"... do you see many of the clanners bringing Thors and Gargoyles into CW, if they're not trials and/or just bad? Didn't think so. You wanna compete, you bring the best mechs. So yes, we're comparing those quirked-to-almighty-heaven mechs to clan staples like Timberpups and Ebonkittens.

Edited by LupineShadow, 05 January 2016 - 10:23 PM.

[Hunter Watzas]

Comparing weapon performance based on tonnage is pointless. Yes a clan weapon weighs less but on Omnis they can't change engine and fixed slots for armor (FF or ES) or jumpjets. I look at a comparable IS mech and they typically can fit more weapons in their Mech but sacrifice their speed. If a Clan wants more weapons, they have to sacrifice armor (if they even have the slots or hardpoints to do so).

I typically play solo but i communicate with my team. Every match I have played with a "GENERAL" pug unit was much closer. Even during BoT 2, the difference between two pugs would be a few mechs at the end but Clans would win at the end. Why? Because a lot of the IS teams were new steam players running trials. THe first few weeks of december i destroyed a dozen of IS trials a week but yet these new players were still able to keep up to a degree. Then I would face a fully organized, no holds group of IS dropping in pure "Over Quirked Mechs" and we wouldn't even stand a chance, coordinated or not coordinated.

Yes I know teamwork is the most important; I agree. The triad is skill, teamwork, and mech; but frankly the IS Mechs are still far more ahead of the clans.

I play both sides; i switched over to JF in October because I had a few clan mechs that I wanted to play and was preparing for the IIC drop in December. This causes problems when i drive my IS mech and i have no armor left but i still feel like i have armor left, then i get to my clan mech and a single medium laser grazing my orange torso has me crumbling.

[Der Hesse]

LupineShadow, on 05 January 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

Because raw weapon stats make the only difference. Not the fact that proper IS mechs have multiple quirks to impact the weapon system. Or the difference in ghost heat numbers. Or the different methods of heat management across techs. Or any of the other external modifiers of each individual weapon. Or the tonnage restrictions due to locked equipment on clan mechs that reduces an assault mech's weapon capacity to that of an IS medium. Nope. Not-a-one. All comes down to raw, base weapon numbers. Yup.

Sidenote: For the chance of hearing the "Well, only a few mechs have x quirks"... do you see many of the clanners bringing Thors and Gargoyles into CW, if they're not trials and/or just bad? Didn't think so. You wanna compete, you bring the best mechs. So yes, we're comparing those quirked-to-almighty-heaven mechs to clan staples like Timberpups and Ebonkittens.

And you are forgetting that Clans can bring more Heatsinks because of less crits that even let them put em into the legs, Targeting Computer, Mask, way more ECM, FF Armor with half! slots and more Armor/ton, ES Structure with half! slots, an Xl that isn´t a deathtrap and also uses up 2 slots less and way more stuff.

If you want to tell anyone to not forget relevant data then don´t do it yourself!
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

[Jon Gotham]

Der Hesse..please remember you have to bring more heatsinks to As effective. Clan weps run hotter and generate more HPS so you need more heatsinks to be equal. I think the balance was intended thus:
Clanners have more raw damage but it's spread more-the wastage is the balancing factor
Clanners' stuff uses less weight but you need more of it to equate same EFFECTIVE damage-so reduced slots/weight negated by need to pack more on
Clanners' weapons require face time-thus exposing to increased pin point damage vulnerability, combined with 0 survivability quirks "should" mean trading "should" be equal.

Trouble is now all the quirks are in place...original methods of balance don't really work so well..


Maybe they could try giving the IS tech all the aggressive quirks, the -duration,cooldown and +range etc and give the clans the structure/armour quirks? Because I thought the original idea was to make each set of tech "feel" different but be as effective?
Currently, if you are truly honest this isn't true.