447 replies to this topic

[Jugger Grimrod]

Clan claims IS is OP. IS claim Clans are OP. Nothing ever changes. I cannot help but laugh at all of this. Clan mechs and IS mechs are never going to be 'balanced' - PERIOD.

Why?

Because maybe PILOT SKILL CANNOT BE BALANCED?!

Who else is sitting here laughing at this effort to put a Square peg in a Round whole?

[P.S. Clan tech is supposed to be superior in IS tech at this period in the so-called 'Timeline'. If Russ and Paul ever choose to write 'Zellbrigen' into the game and employ 12v10, all of this so-called 'Balance' debate will be moot. Realize the solution rests in the hands of those who cannot master a math problem with MatchMaker... and spare me the "It's too complicated." excuse.]

[Gas Guzzler]

A salute to the utterly garbage unplayable EXE-D:

[Gas Guzzler]

kamiko kross, on 06 January 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

I would say though Gas, that you may not notice because you and your unit are pretty **** good at the game. I've been the token tag along pug on many of your drops, you guys have VERY good cohesion and average pilot skill is up there too.
That might be a factor.
Have you fought Ms and 228 meta teams yet? that'd be the real litmus test. Because I remember before latest round of clan nerfs when i dropped with some of your guys, the standard was to take the brawl to the clanners and just overwhelm them. when I've tagged along with your guys, i have yet to lose a single CW match.....

I only have my opinion because I'm not as good at the game as you are, and I do notice a rather sizable difference between the sets of tech-it might be my builds who knows. But my clan stuff does not feel as effective as my Is stuff right now.
MY Blackjacks for example, are currently all over my clan mediums. My Black knights make my HBR and Summoner look rather tame...
Maybe Is tech suits me better?

I haven't ran into a 228th 12-man, but we have been able to beat MS 12 mans.

If you are someone who likes to close and engage at closer range, IS tech might suit you better. If you like to be patient and take shots as the come and keep some distance (but not 1000m insane distance), Clan mechs are still extremely good. There is definitely a difference in playstyle, its always a tradeoff. But to say one side is OP right now is just false.

[Jon Gotham]

Probably just the brawler in me then:) I've only said what I've noticed myself, and what others have said too.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 January 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

I haven't noticed any disadvantage playing as Clans. Its just as easy.

LOL

[Gas Guzzler]

What's funny?

[Roland09]

Skill, apparently.

[Der Hesse]

kamiko kross, on 06 January 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

I read your former posts and i don't understand them at all. that's why I asked! you didn't address my statement concerning effective, efficient damage application. also if clan mechs run cooler, why do they overheat more?
Because in actual match conditions...they do. their heatsinks don't work as well and heat cap is lower, meaning shorter time to overheat.
To negate that you need to run srm/ballistic builds mainly then you are back to the burn/contatc time problem. the logic doesn't add up?

There are so many variables that it is indeed hard to fully know and understand all balancing factors. I myself feel like i do, but it´s hard to pay regard to all of them at once when reviewing tech balance. Most could be solved mathematically, but i just don´t want to take the time for that. But since i know all the factors i am sure that i can do an educated guess that comes pretty close to reality.
Also when you follow the matches in the game and the forum activities and know most of the names you get a good hint of how balance plays out in reality, independent of the mathematically stats. And atm. for me everything hints to the best tech balance in this game so far.

Clan mechs overheat that much because most clan pilots use an awful lot of offensive power (i would do that too, because it´s one the strenths of clantech to be able to do so). Take the much used Thunderbolt with 3 LPL for example. Now tell me how many Clanners use only that low amount of weapons on a heavy mech? And even if they did run only 3 LPL then they would do more damage, what still equals higher weaponry.
Also don´t forget jumpjets. there are more viable Clan mechs that have them then there are viable IS mechs with them. Even when viable IS mechs have them it´s most of the time only one and not many like most Clan mechs. So typically clanplayers use them way more often. But using Jumpjets is a good way to prevent your mech from cooling down.

And yes, the difference in heatsinks plays its part too, but there again you have to consider that Clan mechs have the opportunity to use way more of them then IS mechs if you want to because of all the crits and tonnage you save with the higher tech equipment. That´s one of the arguments why the difference in heatsinks was brought into the game.

Clan SRMs don´t have a higher facing time. And viable IS ACs in my opinion also not. But i did write the reasons before and won´t do that again. Most Clanners underestimate the power of their AC´s. The most badass builds i did run into those days when brawling were Clan UAC builds. Those things are intimidating to say the least.

If i want to build a mad AC boat i take a Mauler with 4 UAC5. It´s devastating until it runs out of ammo. Happens to me VERY fast. But the damage is done up until then. The build is something like that:

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...97a1f688930af0e[/smurfy]

Now look at a madcat with the same firepower (2UAC10):

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6d5edf527971a1b[/smurfy]

15 tons less, and 1,75 less DPS, but 30 kph faster, better maneuverability, 5 Jumpjets, much more ammo, more then twice the maximum damage total and 34 % more cooling efficiency.

Maybe there are even better Clan AC builds but it´s just a hastily cobbled together example. Still i would take it over my mauler anytime.
The fact that Clan UAC10 isn´t pinpoint is no big difference because i have to hold on my target nonstop with my mauler too. There is no shoot and twist/hide in that thing.

[Jon Gotham]

Actually Der Hesse I have started to build all my clanners with less firepower. I've gone with less guns/more heat efficiency. I only come unstuck when I end up face to face vs a quirkboat. then my lessened firepower bites me in the ***:) I used your triple lpl build in one of my HBR mechs for a while. I've ran the thus with same build as well though and still had better results with the thud. Cooler and with shorter duration wubs^^
Only issues is with less firepower....the damage still spreads more..the damage gap is needed to balance the wastage from the spread.
Oh and the Mauler, I used a 5 ac5 build for giggles that was fun lol. Only comparable clanner is the DW dakka boat.

My frustration comes from a simple problem, when assembling my clan acc's mechs, I basically asked myself how would I counter my own IS drop deck?
Yesterday for example I was thinking about the counter to my Raven 4x ERLL sniper.NONE of my clan mechs can do the job it can, as well as it can. NONE of my clan mechs can perform like my blackjacks can....my orions/black knights/ grass hoppers all seem to out perform my clan stuff, with shorter duration weapons with much better heat efficiency and are MUCH more tanky. The only debatable mechs are my Zeus. Warhawk is similar speed and maybe an edge in raw firepower but doesn't seem to tank as well...same as my Gargoyles. the DW I never use nor the Executioner really.

I'm genuinely unsure how to solve the less guns=more heat efficiency-damage wastage equation. Because no matter what i do, it never adds up satisfactorily.
I really enjoy my Is mechs currently-never been a better time to be Is, I'm not enjoying the $490 I spent clan side. A lot of wasted money for me personally. Money I can't get back or convert, money that has gone to support other people's gaming at my expense Wish I had ploughed it into my main acct instead lol.

[Der Hesse]

Well i would consider that IS is maybe more convenient for your playstile. But i still doubt overall tech balance is the problem.
IS and clans sure do play very different. I for my part love fast mechs with high alphas so i should play clans. But in tabeltop i always loved Is so i will stay Is even in MWO. ^^

[D A T A]

Clan is overnerfed.
Clan meds, erll and gauss must be buffed.
Timber and crow nerfs removed

[StonedVet]

I agree clans needed to be toned down but I also agree its been overnerfed. Meh I'm still playing clan and enjoying it, challenges are fun

[Roland09]

kamiko kross, on 07 January 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

[...]
Yesterday for example I was thinking about the counter to my Raven 4x ERLL sniper.NONE of my clan mechs can do the job it can, as well as it can. [...]

I'm interested in that Raven 4x ERLL build. Care to share it please?

[Kotev]

Plain and simple IS is far better then Clan. I have played both recently and when taken into account quirks for less heat, laser duration and structure buffs for my perspective is like IS are twice better in everything. This needs to be corected with buffs to Clan or IS nerfs and same tonnage dropdeck.

[Roland09]

Kotev, on 07 January 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

Plain and simple IS is far better then Clan. I have played both recently and when taken into account quirks for less heat, laser duration and structure buffs for my perspective is like IS are twice better in everything. This needs to be corected with buffs to Clan or IS nerfs and same tonnage dropdeck.

Oh really, twice as good in everything? One area in which Clanners by far surpass anything the Inner Sphere has to offer is baseless whining, where Clanners are at least thrice as "good". Maybe you need to check your priorities.

[Kotev]

Roland09, on 07 January 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

Oh really, twice as good in everything? One area in which Clanners by far surpass anything the Inner Sphere has to offer is baseless whining, where Clanners are at least thrice as "good". Maybe you need to check your priorities.

Bravo!

[Ace Selin]

Playing as Clans right now i think the balance is really good at the moment.

People just love to whine when they dont have easy mode crutches anymore.


I do think tonnage on both sides can be the same now .

Edited by Ace Selin, 07 January 2016 - 04:13 PM.

[ackstorm]

I think PGI is just testing how high the weight limit can go and how it affects game play.

I dont think they care *at all* about this phase of CW.

Probably until the new changes come in later in the year they wont pay attention to any of this except to mess with values and record the results. There is no reward from CW so gaining or losing territory has no meaning.

I would not mind so much if it was even possible to find games that were not 228 or -MS- because we have NO CHOICES that would allow us to go anywhere else.

[ackstorm]

It's pretty funny to see these posts about how clans are fine and look at all the games I won on clans!

yeah.. look at the map. You didn't win ****. If you think clans are so powerful. let's see those units of yours actually make a difference instead of embarrassing yourselves.

[WANTED]

I just hope everyone is saving these posts down the line when the next rebalance pass puts Clans above IS again and the big Merc Units go back to Clans. Then we will see the " It's not the Clan tech it's the players that make the difference and teamwork " posts again. Really I just find all this whining funny cause I think the Clanners will be a bit more humble when they are dominating the CW map again.

Been playing CW back and forth since it came out and can count on 2 hands my amount of actual wins in IS vs Clans vs tons of losses.

I finally came to the conclusion during this time that 1) Well known Merc Units, the names we all know by now, can dominate whatever side they are on 2) Roll with the punches and enjoy those rare win moments.I have not had the time since the new changes took place in CW to enjoy the IS roll but hopefully I will soon since karma for me is kinda due.