156 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior3671771]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 31 December 2015 - 04:10 AM, said:

Apparently playing to your potential and using teamwork is cheating according to PUGs

...said the Alabama head coach as his team rolled over yet another 4A High School team....

Actually thats not even an accurate analogy, more like rolling over the pickup game in the parking lot.

http://sportsmedia.i...3538825-000.jpg

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 31 December 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

KahnWongFuChung, on 31 December 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

PGI might be the worst managed group I've seen since pre-school. But, we don't need any more modes to segregate our players. I can't get a good match to save my life.
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It would not segregate the player base it would just give more options of game modes to a weary player base that has had to endure 3 freaking years of the same boring monotonous 3 COD gameplay game modes and might in fact save this game from going offline

this. But the units dont care about this, they just want to club seals and pad their wallets. Who cares if it kills the game while they do it

[TLBFestus]

Foxwalker, on 30 December 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

One more thing to add. It would be good if PGI could ask Gamespot for a re-review of the game since the Steam Launch. The current review and video are from September 2013. A lot has changed since then...

You meant to say "paid" Gamespot, didn't you?

[DoomBringer595]

Imperius, on 30 December 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

What is stopping you from creating your own premade or unit? Again you want to have your cake and eat it too. Nothing is stopping you from joining or creating a unit. It's your issue you don't have time or want to socialize with others not PGI's. Teams practice you don't, again you choose to lose because obviously winning wasn't that important because if it was you would apply yourself.

CW was created for the Units of the game it's the Hardcore mode.

You're not denyed access to CW so again I'm failing to see an issue other than you think you should be entitled to win with no effort put fourth like the boogiemen that constantly stomp you because you walked into thier domain.

YOU DESERVE TO LOSE TO TEAMS THAT WORKED TOGETHER AND DEDICATED TIME TO PRACTICE! If you want to win apply yourself. Quit trying to force restrictions on those who work hard because you're lazy.

IF IT WAS CREATED FOR TEAMS JUST BAN PUGS QUESTION ANSWERED PROBLEM SOLVED

[Mothermoy]

im one of the new Steam players, and im never stepping foot in CW, without at least getting paid well to get farmed. if i drop into a CW match, facing a premade unit, and i get oooh say a 300-400k bonus right of the top...hell ill CW my face off. But lets face it folks, CW is what it is. Large units are NOT going to stop farming pugs unless PGI makes them, or they have to give us "steam" newbs some reason to stomach being humiliated like we were. Heck i have a full deck, with at least all my mechs elited, some even have master unlocked, and i might as well have been playing a card board box car racer.....PGI had better come up with something quick, or as has been said in this thread, at least for CW, retention is gonna suck.

Edited by Mothermoy, 02 January 2016 - 04:58 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

DoomBringer595, on 02 January 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

IF IT WAS CREATED FOR TEAMS JUST BAN PUGS QUESTION ANSWERED PROBLEM SOLVED

And people who write such lines are also the same people who complain about long CW queues and that CW is dead. Hahaha oh the irony...

[Pat Kell]

Claiming that groups only want to club seals is flat out wrong...We love the rare occasions that we are able to fight other 12 mans and so do they...well most of them. We hate fighting a bunch of unorganized pugs because it's soooo boring. The reason they have to let solo people into CW is because some groups need fillers. I am sure there are other, better ways to manage this but CW is for team players period so either go in solo, expecting to get rolled and please be quiet about it or join a team....tired of all you people saying that big groups only like clubbing seals...we do it because there is nothing else for us to do, we fight who is in front of us. In fact, we had seriously considered going IS to try out all the new quirks but when we found out that 228 and MS went IS, we stayed falcon so we could get some good fights.

Edited by Pat Kell, 03 January 2016 - 04:09 AM.
Insults

[Weeny Machine]

Pat Kell, on 02 January 2016 - 05:05 AM, said:

Claiming that groups only want to club seals is flat out ********...

Oh, you missed the comment from Russ from 2-3 months ago? Data showed that premades tried to avoid each other. I am sure not everyone thinks like that but the vast majority.
In other games it was the same. Take WoW. Premade players wrote the same notes as you did on the board. And what happened when rated BGs were introduced? They were DEAD. So much for you throwing a fit

[Pat Kell]

I am sure there are some teams that don't mind clubbing seals because it's all they can beat but when NS, KCom, MS 228 BMMU and others fight each other, they love it and let each other know how much they enjoy the challenge....that's real world evidence, not some guy sitting in an office theorizing on what other people are thinking...so much for your "evidence".

Just because a team moves close to the same time as others doesn't mean they are avoiding fights...it just means they moved...stop reading nonsense out of nothing.

Edited by Pat Kell, 02 January 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[The Lost Boy]

Fen Tetsudo, on 31 December 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

...said the Alabama head coach as his team rolled over yet another 4A High School team....

Actually thats not even an accurate analogy, more like rolling over the pickup game in the parking lot.

http://sportsmedia.i...3538825-000.jpg

But its soooooo cool when a top ranked team blows the whole season when a tune up game goes poorly. Thats the risk you take when you play against a team that has NOTHING to loose.

[Weeny Machine]

Pat Kell, on 02 January 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

I am sure there are some teams that don't mind clubbing seals because it's all they can beat but when NS, KCom, MS 228 BMMU and others fight each other, they love it and let each other know how much they enjoy the challenge....that's real world evidence, not some guy sitting in an office theorizing on what other people are thinking...so much for your "evidence".

Just because a team moves close to the same time as others doesn't mean they are avoiding fights...it just means they moved...stop reading nonsense out of nothing.

Russ stated that it showed that the largest units were avoiding each other. But live in your little fanboy world. It is cute in a certain naive way.

[AssaultPig]

If all these top tier players wanted to fight 12v12s against each other all the time, they wouldn't all congregate into so few units/factions.

I have no doubt that they enjoy the occasional impromptu 12v12 scrim, but their behavior puts the lie to the idea that it's actually what they want most of the time

[Kjudoon]

AssaultPig, on 02 January 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

If all these top tier players wanted to fight 12v12s against each other all the time, they wouldn't all congregate into so few units/factions.

I have no doubt that they enjoy the occasional impromptu 12v12 scrim, but their behavior puts the lie to the idea that it's actually what they want most of the time

If it was true, the 12man only queue would have worked.

[TLBFestus]

Pat Kell, on 02 January 2016 - 05:05 AM, said:

Claiming that groups only want to club seals is flat out ********..blah blah blah.....all you [redacted] saying that big groups only like clubbing seals...we do it because there is nothing else for us to do, we fight who is in front of us.blah blah insult, blah blah

Keeping it classy I see.

Pat Kell, on 02 January 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

I am sure there are some teams that don't mind clubbing seals because it's all they can beat but when NS, KCom, MS 228 BMMU and others fight each other, they love it and let each other know how much they enjoy the challenge....that's real world evidence, not some guy sitting in an office theorizing on what other people are thinking...so much for your "evidence".

Just because a team moves close to the same time as others doesn't mean they are avoiding fights...it just means they moved...stop reading nonsense out of nothing.

It is sooo nice to know that the cream of MWO fight each other that they are all complimentary and nice to each other. Too bad many of you don't extend that to the PUGS that you so desperately NEED to fill out CW.

It's really quite simple;

The population is too small to have a thriving CW community that consists of organized teams.

As much as those of you preach "Well then JOIN a TEAM", you can't seem to understand that 80+% of the community aren't interested in doing so. In addition saying "Well then JOIN a TEAM or get out of CW losers" doesn't help.

CW needs PUGS much, much more than PUGS need CW. So....either pray and hope that PGI finds a magical formula to make CW attractive to PUGS or that the population explodes tenfold or more (which it isn't gonna do)

or

Make a concerted effort to welcome PUGS into CW


or


Play with yourselves.

My personal choice is not to play CW, or at best very rarely when friends drag me into it, and I'd be ecstatic if they closed CW to Solo players. It would save the 12 mans from having to put up with the unwashed masses. That'd be what you want right?

Of course that puts everything right back in the "there aren't enough players for CW" track again.

Edited by Odanan, 03 January 2016 - 03:23 AM.
cleaning quote

[Bonger Bob]

TLBFestus, on 02 January 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

It is sooo nice to know that the cream of MWO fight each other that they are all complimentary and nice to each other. Too bad many of you don't extend that to the PUGS that you so desperately NEED to fill out CW.

It's really quite simple;

The population is too small to have a thriving CW community that consists of organized teams.

As much as those of you preach "Well then JOIN a TEAM", you can't seem to understand that 80+% of the community aren't interested in doing so. In addition saying "Well then JOIN a TEAM or get out of CW losers" doesn't help.

CW needs PUGS much, much more than PUGS need CW. So....either pray and hope that PGI finds a magical formula to make CW attractive to PUGS or that the population explodes tenfold or more (which it isn't gonna do)

or

Make a concerted effort to welcome PUGS into CW

or

Play with yourselves.

My personal choice is not to play CW, or at best very rarely when friends drag me into it, and I'd be ecstatic if they closed CW to Solo players. It would save the 12 mans from having to put up with the unwashed masses. That'd be what you want right?

Of course that puts everything right back in the "there aren't enough players for CW" track again.

id welcome seeing CW closed to pugs aswell, then after a few months of stagnant non-existent faction play, the group players will be crying for the return of pugs to the ques and we can come full circle with one difference, not so many heads up arses and all working towards motivating PGI to take CW out of beta and actually develop it beyond what we currently have.

Edited by Bonger Bob, 02 January 2016 - 02:59 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Bonger Bob, on 02 January 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

id welcome seeing CW closed to pugs aswell, then after a few months of stagnant non-existent faction play, the group players will be crying for the return of pugs to the ques and we can come full circle with one difference, not so many heads up arses and all working towards motivating PGI to take CW out of beta and actually develop it beyond what we currently have.

I agree.

Mostly cus I'd just take so much pleasure in seeing the tears of the CW groups when CW becomes the graveyard they deserve.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I meant to say "When CW becomes the graveyard both they and PGI deserve".

[Sabazial]

MWO will never be an e-sport because to put it simply, it's boring watching others playing the game. Russ needs to drop the pipe dream and just make the game great for the right reasons.

[Vxheous]

Mothermoy, on 02 January 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

im one of the new Steam players, and im never stepping foot in CW, without at least getting paid well to get farmed. if i drop into a CW match, facing a premade unit, and i get oooh say a 300-400k bonus right of the top...hell ill CW my face off. But lets face it folks, CW is what it is. Large units are NOT going to stop farming pugs unless PGI makes them, or they have to give us "steam" newbs some reason to stomach being humiliated like we were. Heck i have a full deck, with at least all my mechs elited, some even have master unlocked, and i might as well have been playing a card board box car racer.....PGI had better come up with something quick, or as has been said in this thread, at least for CW, retention is gonna suck.

Having a Full elited deck, and having a Proper elited deck is different. If your elited Mechs do not fit the playstyle of CW, you will struggle. CW requires you to have a good balance of range + durability because it is an attrition mode. I often drop late night either solo or with one other unit member, both of us still put up 2K+ damage on average.

[Pat Kell]

Yea, I admit I came on a little strong there but it so frustrating when people who refuse to join a team complain about getting beaten by people who do join a team. I don't want pugs out of CW. I don't want anyone out of CW. I try my best to be nice to all I come across but I, like most others, fail from time to time. Solo players are needed for CW because filling out a 12 man team often times requires it. Often times, my frustration is a result of playing with people who know the basics of the game and are willing to work together as a team to win the match so when solo players come in and just roam around like lost cats, it is frustrating to offer them advice or guidance and have it thrown back in your face. I can't tell you how many times I have had this happen to me either as a pug or part of a group. So I think your comment about groups not being nice is a two sided problem. When we do try to help, we are spat at.

I am more than willing to admit that there are teams who don't like fighting other organized teams but I rarely see this. There are many factors that go in to determining when a team moves and once you hear it from the individual teams, you start to have a better understanding of why it's happening. Simply looking at some pie chart showing the movement of random teams is not nearly enough in-depth evidence to make me believe that Russ is correct. May be some truth to it but most teams move based on votes...and their members vote based on a variety of personal interests such as a needed loyalty points out of a certain faction, perceived imbalance in IS vs Clan tech, long term CW goals etc etc. Not really seeing that as living in a fantasy land...I see that as talking to the people and basing a conclusion off of the evidence presented as a whole rather than a small fraction of it. On another interesting note, I have come across many solo pugs who have stated to me flat out that they moved to Falcons so they wouldn't have to fight KCom. I am sure the other bigger or more active groups have similar experiences...so even if the claim is true that big units move so they don't have to fight each other, it is no different with solo players to some degree.

As far as the join a team or get out of CW comment, I have never said that. I don't play CW or MechWarrior though to just waste my time. I want to win, just like (I hope) everyone else does. No one likes losing. When we make suggestions on how to improve your experience in CW, it's not to be mean, it's done out of an understanding of how good it feels to be part of a team that does well. If you don't want to be on comms or read text instructions, that is fine with me but when your experience sucks because you keep on losing, I don't know who else to blame other than yourself. It is a team game and when one side tends to play more unified, they tend to win...period. I am the last person to want to make anyone do anything they don't want to do but I certainly am not going to pay much heed to people who insist on playing solo, insist on running off by themselves or insist on doing other things that are hurtful to the team and then complain about getting stomped. It is your own fault. You made a conscious decision to put yourself in the situation you are in and if you are not willing to listen to advice on how to improve it....well then, how can any one find sympathy for that?

Also, MS has stated publicly that they were actively trying to get people to migrate to a small subset of the factions available due to the low population numbers. They were doing this so they would get matches and they have actively switched to multiple factions in an effort to reach this goal. With fewer factions, you are actually more likely to run into another team as CJF for example is unlikely to run into a Davion team unless that team is defending another IS planet being attacked by us. I would be willing to entertain the idea of either a group que and solo que but lets face it, the solo que has proven to be capable of manipulation. I wonder if capping teams somewhere between 4-8 people would help...I hesitate on the 4 number though as that really limits people on who they can play with, plus a full 12 man can just que up at the same time to synch drop anyway. I hate that people aren't enjoying this game mode but I have yet to see anything that would fix it without either allowing for manipulation or fail due to low population in CW. Maybe once the planets start to mean something and Phase 3 comes out with all the faction stuff being worked on, it will get better. Sorry so long

[Bonger Bob]

Pat Kell, on 02 January 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

............................

groups not being nice is a two sided problem. When we do try to help, we are spat at.
.............

< admirable wall of respectful text >

..........

I hate that people aren't enjoying this game mode but I have yet to see anything that would fix it without either allowing for manipulation or fail due to low population in CW. Maybe once the planets start to mean something and Phase 3 comes out with all the faction stuff being worked on, it will get better. Sorry so long

thank you for a balanced post putting across an understandable point of view from group players, not just more of whats been the "get on a group or die" puke.

Heres a thought for a change to please all : make 2 ques for CW, one that is group + pug, another that is pug only, then the group players keep there "hard mode" dream alive while still being able to get randoms for places, and the pug que is pug only for "training" purposes if you like. Apply a C-bill bonus to the group + pug combo que, and leave the pug only que as it sits currently.

Best of both worlds, ques not too divided, no more seal clubbing involuntarily, and better rewards for engaging in groups.

problems ???